Company Defective Business Phone Apple ID Locked.

[GoCoogs]

I work for a Engineering and construction company. We recently updated our devices to the new iOS. I manage the cell phones and records for the company.

We fired an employee yesterday, who turned in his phone and left. During the restore process the phone shut off twice. After i finally got it to restore, i find out that its icloud locked from the user. We keep the employees email address and password on file and i can reset a users password, but the apple ID is set up by the user. So the phone is icloud locked, and we own the phone. We tried to contact the user to unlock it, but he ignored our phonecalls. I see this may be an issue in the long run with businesses. Because i basically have a defective brick. Even when i got the phone to turn on i was still having issue with it shutting off on its own.

Will the apple store be able to do anything about it if i can prove its a business phone? Also, because its defective, but icloud locked, can i still have it warrantied out and get a replacement?

 

[Sure, Not]

Apple might be willing to help if its for a business, but to this day I have never heard of a case of Apple removing an iCloud lock for anyone regardless of the circumstance. You can consider the phone bricked.

If I were a fired employee, I sure as hell would not help my former employer unlock my company issued phone. I wouldn't have even attempted to contact him.

 

[GoCoogs]

I can still have it replaced under the warranty though correct? This is what i was told.

 

[I7guy]

The company should have issued the phones with a company Apple ID and IT policy. This would have avoided the nonsense.

 

[blarivee]

Withhold his/her last paycheck until he/she unlocks the iCloud activation lock.

 

[Sure, Not]

I can still have it replaced under the warranty though correct? This is what i was told.

I'm really don't think they will. Chances are they won't. I highly doubt they will accept an iCloud locked phone. It just seems very unlikely. By the way, have you attempted to call Apple yet to get actual information from them?

 

[yg17]

I can still have it replaced under the warranty though correct? This is what i was told.

Why would Apple replace a perfectly good, fully functioning phone under warranty?

 

[Sure, Not]

Why would Apple replace a perfectly good, fully functioning phone under warranty?

He said it was defective in some way. That it kept shutting down during the restore process.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

I can still have it replaced under the warranty though correct? This is what i was told.

No.

Apple now requires that Find My iPhone be turned off prior to sending an item in for repair. If it is on when Apple receives it, it goes back to the sender.

Lesson for the future: When employees turn in company-supplied Apple devices (including Macs), the check-in procedure had better include checking the status of Find My iPhone while the employee is present (and requiring them to remove it). Get it written into your procedure manual, pronto. On a policy level, you may want to consider a Find My iPhone-locked device (that the employee refuses to unlock) to be "damaged" or "not returned," or "vandalized," whatever classification makes sense under existing policy for company property that has been rendered useless by an employee.

However, when the employee is cooperative, it's easy for the former employee to turn off Find My iPhone, without divulging his/her Apple ID password or having to return to the workplace. Contact him/her, and ask that they use either the Find My iPhone app on another Apple device, or the iCloud.com web site, to remove the device from their account. Here's how: http://support.apple.com/kb/PH2702

 

[acfusion29]

No.

Apple now requires that Find My iPhone be turned off prior to sending an item in for repair. If it is on when Apple receives it, it goes back to the sender.

Lesson for the future: When employees turn in company-supplied Apple devices (including Macs), the check-in procedure had better include checking the status of Find My iPhone while the employee is present (and requiring them to remove it). Get it written into your procedure manual, pronto. On a policy level, you may want to consider a Find My iPhone-locked device (that the employee refuses to unlock) to be "damaged" or "not returned," or "vandalized," whatever classification makes sense under existing policy for company property that has been rendered useless by an employee.

However, when the employee is cooperative, it's easy for the former employee to turn off Find My iPhone, without divulging his/her Apple ID password or having to return to the workplace. Contact him/her, and ask that they use either the Find My iPhone app on another Apple device, or the iCloud.com web site, to remove the device from their account. Here's how: http://support.apple.com/kb/PH2702

hypothetical scenario:

- i find an iPhone 5s
- it's activation locked
- submerge in water
- go to apple, pay the replacement fee ($269?)
- i just got a 5s for 269, or sell for $500 - $269

i guess this would work since they can't tell if it's been locked as the phone won't power on.

 

[old-wiz]

Withhold his/her last paycheck until he/she unlocks the iCloud activation lock.

This is the way to go. You don't pass out last paycheck until the employee has returned all company property. Since the ID lock keeps the company from using it, the ex-employee still has control of company property.

Just take the cost of a new phone out of his last paycheck and let it go at that. If the ex-employee has already been paid, file a claim against him.

 

[GoCoogs]

Why would Apple replace a perfectly good, fully functioning phone under warranty?

because if you read i clearly stated in the title and in the paragraph multiple times that the phone IS defective. Therefore it should be replaced. especially if the screen eventually just doesn't turn on at all. It pisses me off that a thief can take a blacklisted phone in and swap it out, but i can't get a business phone swapped out thats legit.



As for the post above ^

Before iOS7 there was no need to keep everyones apple ID because i simply just wiped the phone and gave it to the next user. Spoke with the higher ups on it and we'll probably end up stopping support on apple devices as it's too much of a risk. Even if we do keep a log of every persons apple ID and password, they could easily change it if they wanted. It gets in a grey area when we have to ask for their security questions and what not thats associated with the apple ID. seems too much like a headache, but i'm sure it'll eventually become more of a problem. I see it likely just dealing with the iCloud devices. There's just no way to fully prevent it.

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No.

Apple now requires that Find My iPhone be turned off prior to sending an item in for repair. If it is on when Apple receives it, it goes back to the sender.

You can't turn find my phone off if the phone doesn't power on.




plus i'm sure once reviewed it seems like just too much trouble to go though to support a device. We already have enough policies and things to go by.

 

[blarivee]

Sounds like the ex-employee may have subjected the phone to water damage. If so (upon inspection by Apple), unless you have AppleCare+, it will not be covered under regular warranty.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

hypothetical scenario:

- i find an iPhone 5s
- it's activation locked
- submerge in water
- go to apple, pay the replacement fee ($269?)
- i just got a 5s for 269, or sell for $500 - $269

i guess this would work since they can't tell if it's been locked as the phone won't power on.

No, especially in the case of a 5s, which has the IMEI and the serial # on the back. That's all the info they need to know (and if you seriously think that Apple would accept a 5s with the serial # scratched off...).

Water damage is an out-of-warranty repair, and Apple doesn't have to accept out of warranty repairs. Find My iPhone lock can only be "repaired" by the owner (well, whoever has the Apple ID password). Therefore, a totally non-functioning Apple device capable of running iOS 7 (iPhone 4 and up) carries a risk (to Apple or any other buyer) of having hidden damage that can't be repaired. You're not going to get Apple to give you a functioning phone for $269 under the conditions you describe. This is the whole point of Find My iPhone lock - to cripple the resale market for stolen iPhones.

Originally posted by GoCoogs
You can't turn find my phone off if the phone doesn't power on.

No. Please click the link in my previous post. It explains just how easy it is for the person who knows the Apple ID password to turn it off, using any web browser or the Find My iPhone app, from anywhere in the world.

You now know you have to check Find My iPhone status when you collect an iPhone from an employee. Lesson learned. From this moment forward, if this happens again, you can't blame the employee, you can only blame yourself (I hope your boss is reading this). A simple change to your property-collection procedure ensures it won't happen again.

 

[GoCoogs]

I understand what you are saying. Just from a business prospective. It's too much work to write up new policies, and get them approved just so we can use apple products.

If it gets to the point to where it will not turn on i'll take it to the apple store to see if i can get it replaced. I do not see why not since i've seen a freaking thief get a replacement phone. It's defective, so it should be covered.

We'll have to deal with the others that are on apple devices accordingly i suppose.

 

[acfusion29]

No, especially in the case of a 5s, which has the IMEI and the serial # on the back. That's all the info they need to know (and if you seriously think that Apple would accept a 5s with the serial # scratched off...).

Water damage is an out-of-warranty repair, and Apple doesn't have to accept out of warranty repairs. Find My iPhone lock can only be "repaired" by the owner (well, whoever has the Apple ID password). Therefore, a totally non-functioning Apple device capable of running iOS 7 (iPhone 4 and up) carries a risk (to Apple or any other buyer) of having hidden damage that can't be repaired. You're not going to get Apple to give you a functioning phone for $269 under the conditions you describe. This is the whole point of Find My iPhone lock - to cripple the resale market for stolen iPhones.


No. Please click the link in my previous post. It explains just how easy it is for the person who knows the Apple ID password to turn it off, using any web browser or the Find My iPhone app, from anywhere in the world.

You now know you have to check Find My iPhone status when you collect an iPhone from an employee. Lesson learned. From this moment forward, if this happens again, you can't blame the employee, you can only blame yourself (I hope your boss is reading this). A simple change to your property-collection procedure ensures it won't happen again.

but the thing is, they don't KNOW it's activation locked. the only way to tell is to boot up the phone and if the phone is completely water damaged, guess what.. it's not turning on.

their computers don't tell them if the phones activation locked, i've asked

 

[blarivee]

No, especially in the case of a 5s, which has the IMEI and the serial # on the back. That's all the info they need to know (and if you seriously think that Apple would accept a 5s with the serial # scratched off...).

Water damage is an out-of-warranty repair, and Apple doesn't have to accept out of warranty repairs. Find My iPhone lock can only be "repaired" by the owner (well, whoever has the Apple ID password). Therefore, a totally non-functioning Apple device capable of running iOS 7 (iPhone 4 and up) carries a risk (to Apple or any other buyer) of having hidden damage that can't be repaired. You're not going to get Apple to give you a functioning phone for $269 under the conditions you describe. This is the whole point of Find My iPhone lock - to cripple the resale market for stolen iPhones.

iPhone 5S only has the IMEI number printed on the back, no serial number. Apple policies do allow for out of warranty replacement for liquid damaged phone (your guess is as good as mine for what constitutes may)

"Certain damage is ineligible for out-of-warranty service, including catastrophic damage, such as the device separating into multiple pieces, and inoperability caused by unauthorized modifications. However, an iPhone that has failed due to contact with liquid may be eligible for out-of-warranty service."

Edit: acfusion29 beat me to the punch on the response

 

[virginblue4]

but the thing is, they don't KNOW it's activation locked. the only way to tell is to boot up the phone and if the phone is completely water damaged, guess what.. it's not turning on.

their computers don't tell them if the phones activation locked, i've asked

To tell you the truth, I highly doubt that. Their computers tell them everything about a device and I'm pretty sure it would tell them if it is locked....

 

[ApfelKuchen]

iPhone 5S only has the IMEI number printed on the back, no serial number. Apple policies do allow for out of warranty replacement for liquid damaged phone (your guess is as good as mine for what constitutes may)

"Certain damage is ineligible for out-of-warranty service, including catastrophic damage, such as the device separating into multiple pieces, and inoperability caused by unauthorized modifications. However, an iPhone that has failed due to contact with liquid may be eligible for out-of-warranty service."

Edit: acfusion29 beat me to the punch on the response

My bad on the serial #. Otherwise, we're both saying the same thing, one from the half-empty side, one from the half-full. "Doesn't have to," "do allow for," and "may" are interchangeable terms in this situation - the fact remains, it's up to Apple to decide. Anything beyond that is optimism/pessimism over what Apple might do when faced with a non-functioning, unidentifiable iPhone with the liquid contact flags tripped and a high probability of being locked with Find My iPhone. "We'll take it in the back to assess the damage" is a whole lot more likely than an instantaneous, no-questions-asked exchange.

 

[Cergman]

OP, I would recommend at least trying to talk to Apple about the activation lock. I've heard if you have proof of purchase for the device, and in very specific situations, they are able to unlock it.

Good luck =)

 

[Thepoobear]

This is the way to go. You don't pass out last paycheck until the employee has returned all company property. Since the ID lock keeps the company from using it, the ex-employee still has control of company property.

Just take the cost of a new phone out of his last paycheck and let it go at that. If the ex-employee has already been paid, file a claim against him.

Except he DID return the phone and withholding his pay is illegal. He could claim he had no idea that he needed to unlock it himself.

Unless he signed something stating otherwise, he did his part. It's ITs responsibility to know this,not him.

The phone should be considered a learning experience for the company. Not having a policy about this is unprofessional.

Company should write a formal policy and make each employee aware of it before it happens again.

 

[balzz]

Hmmmm this just got me thinking - if the MDM issues a remote wipe, will activation lock still be active?

 

[Thepoobear]

I understand what you are saying. Just from a business prospective. It's too much work to write up new policies, and get them approved just so we can use apple products.

If it gets to the point to where it will not turn on i'll take it to the apple store to see if i can get it replaced. I do not see why not since i've seen a freaking thief get a replacement phone. It's defective, so it should be covered.

We'll have to deal with the others that are on apple devices accordingly i suppose.

Unless you MAKE a policy, any of them could claim they didn't understand what Activation Lock is. Good luck pushing your weight around on this one....

This needs to be a wake up call for ALL companies using iDevices. I know MY company has been researching iphone control for awhile now and still isn't comfortable allowing us to have one.

 

[gnasher729]

To tell you the truth, I highly doubt that. Their computers tell them everything about a device and I'm pretty sure it would tell them if it is locked....

They just cannot know if the legitimate owner has the AppleID and password that is needed to unlock the phone, or not. And Apple doesn't know the password.

 

[C DM]

Somewhat similar recent thread about this kind of thing: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1684043/

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Except he DID return the phone and withholding his pay is illegal. He could claim he had no idea that he needed to unlock it himself.

Unless he signed something stating otherwise, he did his part. It's ITs responsibility to know this,not him.

The phone should be considered a learning experience for the company. Not having a policy about this is unprofessional.

Company should write a formal policy and make each employee aware of it before it happens again.

He didn't return it in the same condition (which applies to more than just physical) that he originally got it in, and that usually plays a role. Also, ignoring all attempts to reach him would kind of work against not knowing and all that.

In any case, at least that would get the ex-employee to communicate with the company in one form or another, which is more than what they are getting so far it would seem.