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Enjoy your consumer electronic device. I hope it works out well for you. The machine isn't built with professionals in mind. It was built for the masses and marketed as for professional use. There isn't even an enterprise solution for any Apple computers. It's a joke in most all professional crowds. Sorry.

Hey man, you're being dense. Show me where Apple is marketing the MBP to professionals:

https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/

Are you a spokesman for "professionals?" Who are you to define what a professional is?

Apple is going to make a device that the vast majority would like, not the 5% of tech spec nitpickers who want impossible performance from a thin and portable device.
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If you think I'm trolling. Ignore it. What's rule number 1 of the internet? You are allowed your opinion, I'm allowed mine. Don't like it, ignore me or go elsewhere.

Well, you're opinion sucks because it's baseless. That's why we are discussing this.
 
Hey man, you're being dense. Show me where Apple is marketing the MBP to professionals:

https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/

Are you a spokesman for "professionals?" Who are you to define what a professional is?

Apple is going to make a device that the vast majority would like, not the 5% of tech spec nitpickers who want impossible performance from a thin and portable device.
See sig. If anybody else wants to have a semantics battle. Go talk to a wall. I've said my piece and if you don't like, ignore it. Sorry that I, uh, think different.
 
See sig. If anybody else wants to have a semantics battle. Go talk to a wall. I've said my piece and if you don't like, ignore it. Sorry that I, uh, think different.

What you're saying is, "I'm going to believe what I believe no matter what, so just ignore me!"

That's fine, keep being naive. Like I said, show me where Apple is marketing the MBP to professionals. Show me ONE video or sentence. I haven't seen one yet.

Why don't you go over to the iPad Pro forum and complain about why the iPad Pro isn't running your enterprise server.
 
The root of the problem is, I think, now a branding issue. Is the Macbook Pro still a "Pro" laptop?

Before people come for me saying that the 2016 models are greater in every way than the previous models, hold on: that's not the point. Obviously that had better be the case, it's an upgrade. The question is whether the upgrades are in the direction that people expect of the Pro line.

The problem is that the Pros are now trying to do everything at once, and as a result they don't live up to expectations in any one aspect. Let's take the 15-in. They reduced the battery size from 99.5 to 76 watt hours, as part of the process to shave 20% of the volume and half a pound. Which means no 32 gb ram upgrade (and presumably other corner-cutting for the processor and GPU) because it would consume too much power. This looks like the kind of compromise you would expect of an Air or Macbook model, not a Pro.

It makes me wonder what the reception would be if Apple had been boring and given us laptops that were only like 0.1 lb lighter (for the sake of the 'upgrade factor') and no touch bar, but had 3+ extra hours of battery life and/or truly competitive tech specs. And keep the gimmicky, expensive stuff like the touch bar and the ultralight frame to the 'boutique' Macbooks.

I honestly think a back-to-basics approach would have been overwhelmingly positive. But I guess you can't make a sexy Apple event with a laptop that "just works" anymore :p
 
The root of the problem is, I think, now a branding issue. Is the Macbook Pro still a "Pro" laptop?

Before people come for me saying that the 2016 models are greater in every way than the previous models, hold on: that's not the point. Obviously that had better be the case, it's an upgrade. The question is whether the upgrades are in the direction that people expect of the Pro line.

The problem is that the Pros are now trying to do everything at once, and as a result they don't live up to expectations in any one aspect. Let's take the 15-in. They reduced the battery size from 99.5 to 76 watt hours, as part of the process to shave 20% of the volume and half a pound. Which means no 32 gb ram upgrade (and presumably other corner-cutting for the processor and GPU) because it would consume too much power. This looks like the kind of compromise you would expect of an Air or Macbook model, not a Pro.

It makes me wonder what the reception would be if Apple had been boring and given us laptops that were only like 0.1 lb lighter (for the sake of the 'upgrade factor') and no touch bar, but had 3+ extra hours of battery life and/or truly competitive tech specs. And keep the gimmicky, expensive stuff like the touch bar and the ultralight frame to the 'boutique' Macbooks.

I honestly think a back-to-basics approach would have been overwhelmingly positive. But I guess you can't make a sexy Apple event with a laptop that "just works" anymore :p

People just had unreasonable expectations. "Pro" doesn't mean anything other than top of the line for Apple. That was clear with the iPad Pro.

As for performance, it has little to do with Apple and more to do with Intel's processors not advancing much in the last few years. We were expecting performance gains like Apple's A chips or something.
 
Is your Mac maxing out it's ram, or is your Mac efficiently using your available ram? just because it looks like your ram is being used it, it doesn't mean it's hitting a brick wall.

I have 16GB in my MacBook and have the following open right now:

Photoshop [A very big A2 file], Affinity Designer, Safari[2 tabs], Chrome[4 tabs], Tweetbot, iMessages, Franz, Chrome, PHPStorm, Atom, Transmit, Clear, iTunes, Sequel Pro, Linux in a Virtualbox VM and Vagrant.

Background Apps: Creative Cloud, CloudApp, Caffeine, Magnet, Splice, CleanMyMac and Dash.

It's not even close to breaking a sweat, still lightening fast, memory usage is fine... no lag, what so ever, no memory pressure.
Just saying, clean my Mac is practically a virus.
-works in IT
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I'm a mac user - I develop on a Mac and I do enjoy the platform.. I also run a Windows 10 box..

I'm beginning to consider a new personal laptop machine and frankly, the choice comes down to:

MacOS vs Windows - the new MBP vs Dell XPS 15".

The XPS is ONLY missing MacOS.. it's build quality and internals are top tier.. and it's internals (for 1799 at micro center) far exceed the highest spec Mac available today...

The PC game has changed... some windows machines are phenomenal spec-wise.. and build quality wise now.

The main differentiating factor is OS... and.. Apple is making it hard for me to justify.

We're seeing previous gen RAM (16gb will not be viable in 4-5 years for professionals.. it just won't be.. ) and we're seeing severely underpowered GPU's.. I mean, this 460 is worse than nVidia's LAST GEN 960m. Let alone the 1060 which stomps all over it.

The processor is standard, the ram is poor, the screen and build are admittedly quite nice but that can be had on the Dell as well (better screen, actually and mostly rivaled build quality).

If I'm buying today.. I don't know which I get but.. I'm definitely leaning towards the Dell as a working professional.
can your gtx 960m power 2 5k displays?
 
People just had unreasonable expectations. "Pro" doesn't mean anything other than top of the line for Apple. That was clear with the iPad Pro.

As for performance, it has little to do with Apple and more to do with Intel's processors not advancing much in the last few years. We were expecting performance gains like Apple's A chips or something.

THIS!!! Pro, Apple's high end, pro line computer... Pro does not stand for, "it's for professionals only". It's a mass market notebook. Need something else for your protentious "pro" needs? buy something else.

It's so simple.

Just saying, clean my Mac is practically a virus.
-works in IT
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can your gtx 960m power 2 5k displays?

Care to explain?
- Also works in IT
 

Think I agree with this. Waiting for gen 2 at least should bring enhanced value. Right now it's overpriced

Enjoyed the video but I have to disagree with the overall conclusion.

Truefan is right saying gen2 will be better in terms of cost/benefit, they always are.

The video author, however, did not take time to analyze why he was getting such a low battery life. Apple is to blame here but it's definitely a software problem (Sierra, betas, migration assistant, dGPU being turned on, Safari extensions, etc) so it can be easily fixed.

Most people, including reviewers (because they run clean machines without all the software installed or old files/configs), are getting 8-12 hours of battery life depending on their model (on light use). Heavy use yields 4-6 hours. Similar to previous generation, better than older machine and, unfortunately, lower than our expectations. That's our fault: having such high expectations for a power laptop.
 

Think I agree with this. Waiting for gen 2 at least should bring enhanced value. Right now it's overpriced
I've seen similar videos. I think its a nice machine, if you're upgrading from a 2011 or 2012 MBP, but it doesn't seem that different then the 2015 (aside from the fast SSD).
 
The machine isn't built with professionals in mind. It was built for the masses and marketed as for professional use.
It hasn't been marketed for professional use, it has been marketed as a very good notebook. Any other manufacturer does the exact same thing and uses the exact same hardware.

There isn't even an enterprise solution for any Apple computers. It's a joke in most all professional crowds. Sorry.
No need to apologise for having a complete lack of knowledge on the matter, just don't participate in a discussion that is way above your head. There are many professional crowds that use Macs because they deem them professional. Many of those are actually IT specialists (networking, infosec) and scientists (life sciences, physics, etc.). These are very well build UNIX workstations that work fine in UNIX/Linux worlds as well as Windows (the AD integration is good, better than Linux). There are lots of software out there that are meant to manage both Windows and Mac systems and those are aimed at enterprises as well as the smaller businesses. Ikea is a well known international enterprise that uses Macs. They have even given a talk on one of the many OS X for businesses conferences in the world about how they manage all of the Macs.

Want to know more, then this blog is a perfect place to start: https://derflounder.wordpress.com Lots of things about Apple's various options for businesses/enterprises as well as info aimed at sysadmins.

Think I agree with this. Waiting for gen 2 at least should bring enhanced value. Right now it's overpriced
And it is going to stay overpriced because Apple has always been overpriced. There hasn't been a day since the Intel switch where Apple wasn't accused of being overpriced. The enhanced value is too personal to say anything about but be careful with that because in most cases it lacks all realism. Currently we are hitting the technical ceilings of several components which experts have been warning about some years now. And as usual, the public has chosen not to listen to them. Expect other manufacturers to follow Apple. It has already started with the ultrabook.
Things might change when we get the hang of the nano world and are finally able to mass produce things like graphene.
 
Just saying, clean my Mac is practically a virus.
-works in IT
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can your gtx 960m power 2 5k displays?
Well, it's not mine. I don't own that machine. As far as can it? Hm, That's a good question I'm unsure of the answer. I'm fairly certain it 'COULD', but, much the same as the 460 - why would you want it to?

These machines are not nearly powerful enough to handle the applications you would need to fill two 5K displays, and, it is a VERY small amount of people who would justify two 5K monitors with a Macbook Pro, the RAM constraints and processing power just dont add up for those work scenarios. Most likely these users would find themselves working on custom built machines.

In any event, if that's the only thing separating this GPU from a 960M (benchmarks actually show them pretty close with the 960 pulling ahead in most real world applications) that's sort of unfortunate since it's at best a budget GPU now.

I love mac.. but if you're really justifying the lack of internal hardware I don't know what to say.
 
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