Complaints About the 2016 MBP Underpowered Justified?

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by Mr. Dee, Nov 28, 2016.

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  1. Mr. Dee macrumors 65816

    Mr. Dee

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    #1
    I posted this in the comments on a previous thread and thought I would post it in a new thread.

    There have been some unjustified criticism of Apples products, especially the desktop computers and notebooks. I honestly would like to know, what users are doing so much with their Macs that would cause them to determine Apple's offerings unsatisfactory? What are you making with these computers? I think part of what has happened over the past 10 years with the transition to Intel, a lot of new users came from the WinTel platform (including myself) and came with the feeds and speed mentality.

    A lot of these new generation of Mac users are partly bandwagonists. They are not actual core users of the platform. They wanted to be part of something and this was part of the Steve Jobs aurora. The sales pitch is not as convincing with a Phil Schiller or Ive. Certainly, if Steve presented the new MacBooks, many would not complaining.

    The days when Apple was behind with the PowerPC chip; they never cared much for the platform. When Steve introduced the Intel transition, he focused on performance per watt. Not about having a machine with the most RAM or fastest GHz. We have fallen into this trap in 2016 of believing we must future proof the living daylights out of a system to find some imaginary value that will justify buying. We stop looking at buying to meet our "genuine" needs and not who has the biggest (you know what). I think a lot of the unboxing videos on YouTube have fed into this too.

    This month I visited the states and of course I checked out the iPhone 7 Plus, which I had my eyes on as a possible upgrade from my standard 6s. After checking it out, I asked myself, do I really need this? I had the cash ready, but I said, is this going make posting to Facebook, Twitter, or improve filtered photos on IG any better? I am able to do so much already; I have not exhausted the 64 GBs of space in the phone, all my iTunes library, photos taken over the past year are on it.

    The new MacBook Pro is nice, but I don't want it, because my 2015 MBP 13 Broadwell is still a great machine that does all I need. I use it for what it is, not to satisfy some imaginary need. I run a couple VMs on 8 GBs of RAM with it, play music in iTunes, surf the web in Firefox and Safari, constantly in Word, working on a slide show in PPT and its not even sweating.

    I was watching Computer Chronicles this week and an Apple rep was creating professional content on a Power Mac G3 for broadcast. That proved to be a core target audience and it got the job done in 1999. I just want to know why can't a maxed out MBP 15 or entry level model in 2016 do this? Why would it not do this in 2018 too? Users were doing major motion picture post production on Macs for ages and they didn't seem held back by it.

    Show me your Grammy, Emmy, Oscar and other accolades then I might be receptive to your complaint. If you are not creating motion pictures, then stop complaining. Even then, if you were, you would have use whatever that movie studio provides you, whether that's a 2013 Mac Pro or a 2016 Dell Precision with Linux and Lightworks. Don't tell me that the 2016 MacBook Pro is not enough for you to edit pictures of your children picking boogers in 4k or a member of your church eating cake.
     
  2. WhiteWhaleHolyGrail macrumors 6502a

    WhiteWhaleHolyGrail

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    Nov 14, 2016
    #2
    Yes I did my homework. Equivalent cheaper laptops don't exist - this largely explains Apple's ability to charge what it does.
     
  3. mickeydean macrumors 6502

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    #3
    To be fair, it's hard to find a good windows laptop with the same specs that is significantly cheaper.

    Dell 13" XPS starts at $1999 here and for the same specs the price difference is not huge.

    I did feel apple went wrong with the price hikes but then I needed a windows laptop and actually shopped for one. I bootcamped instead
     
  4. MH01 macrumors G4

    MH01

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    Feb 11, 2008
    #4
    I can find a lot of windows model under £4000 that offer superior specs....none of which are as thin as the MacBook Pro or run OS X .

    having a monopoly on OS X and people locked into the ecosystem allows them to charge what they like....what other choice to people have? It's not just jumping PC for most, it's leaving an ecosystem people are invested into
     
  5. WhiteWhaleHolyGrail macrumors 6502a

    WhiteWhaleHolyGrail

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    #5
    These aren't equivalent laptops as I state. You're thinking - Dell XPS, Microsoft Surface Book and Razor machines? None of these machines are as fast in real life use - do you know how redundant other laptops feel, simply because of the crazy fast SSDs in the MBPs?

    Yes the price points hurt but the MBP is a unique product.
     
  6. MH01 macrumors G4

    MH01

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    #6
    I disagree. You are looking at benchmarks, especially the SSD.

    I have a 2015 2.8 1TB, and a 2016 2.7 512, trust me, I am not seeing any major performance increase, as stated by the Crazy fast SSD...... The ultra fast SSD is making no other laptop redundant, give it 6 - 12 months the other laptops can be upgraded to even faster SSDs when the Macbook pro is stuck with the soldered SSD. The SSD can go as fast as it likes, your bottleneck is CPU and GPU, which the Macbook shares with all other laptops....
     
  7. WhiteWhaleHolyGrail macrumors 6502a

    WhiteWhaleHolyGrail

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    #7
    No I am not looking at benchmarks at all and I am not referring specifically to the 2016 line-up when I mentioned the SSDs - this has always been Apple's baseline advantage over windows laptops. I am not saying that is all one should look at but it's definitely a unique selling point.

    But given your comments regarding CPU/GPU bottlenecks, care to elaborate on the Windows equivalents that would give you a 'better' package for less money?
     
  8. MH01 macrumors G4

    MH01

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    #8
    Before we go onto windows machines, Lets cover the SSD advantage, as I said I am failing to see performance jump between 2015 and 2016 day to day use, GPU is the biggest one I have noticed.

    As for a better package, given Im locked into OS X, I have none. If I was a Windows user, for £4K I can get a machine that blows away the macbook pro, it will not bee so sexy, nor will it be thin.

    The question you should be asking, will a windows user buy a Macbook pro to run windows on it......no, its poor value for money .
     
  9. WhiteWhaleHolyGrail macrumors 6502a

    WhiteWhaleHolyGrail

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    #9
    Sorry, but I am not making the points you're querying. I am saying that Apple offer, as but one example, very fast SSD speeds. You can also talk about build quality, OS, system integrity etc. if you like. So the comparison between 2015 and 2016 models is simply underlining my point - Apple have a history of fast SSDs and yes, the increases between 2015 and 2016 MBPs are incremental.

    However, I take issue with people saying that they can get a faster and cheaper Windows laptop as it's simply not true. Apple knowing this and taking advantage is another issue. You note that you could get a beast of a laptop for under £4k - do you mean a desktop? None of this makes sense unless you try to draw on equivalent machine examples.
     
  10. MH01 macrumors G4

    MH01

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    Feb 11, 2008
    #10
    What do you want the primary purpose to be?

    productivity
    http://shop.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/thinkpad/p-series/p70/

    gaming
    http://www.dell.com/uk/p/alienware-17-laptop/pd

    etc etc

    or are you saying there is no Jack of all trades, like the Macbook pro that is so thin and sexy?


    Take the second example lots of PC laptops have GTX 1080 cards, this blows away the 460.... Huge performance advantage here.

    Apple is taking advantage of the laptop running OS X, like I said how many windows users would but the macbook pro to run windows..... I buy macbook pros for OS X, if I hated OS X , there is no way I would buy a macbook pro to run windows, its just not a great windows laptop, its underpowered compared to purpose build laptops.
     
  11. WhiteWhaleHolyGrail macrumors 6502a

    WhiteWhaleHolyGrail

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    #11
    You lost me at GTX1080. Incredible.
     
  12. Dannejaha macrumors newbie

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    May 26, 2015
    #12
    I have the 2015 Retina MBP and yesterday received my new 2016 TB. 15" both. I sure find this one more quite, a lot faster and really nice machine. But i guess i value everything and not just specs and paperwork.

    About upgrade, never heard any friends do that and even me that is pro user and used to build my desktops, never ever change things i laptop. I buy what i need and they buy new every 2-3 years. Maybe i am getting old...
     
  13. JohnnyGo macrumors 6502a

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    Sep 9, 2009
    #13
    Thanks for the feedback and congrats on your new machine.

    PS we're all getting old I don't miss the all nighters building new desktops for me or friends of mine back in the WinXP era
     
  14. Samuelsan2001 macrumors 603

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    Oct 24, 2013
    #14
    Of course they aren't justified they are as fast or faster as the fastest out there in their class (i.e. Not a gaming or desktop replacement).
     
  15. Dannejaha macrumors newbie

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    May 26, 2015
    #15
    I used my last 3 MBPs for gaming :) But then again, I am old and stick to mostly Blizzard games. Its alla about what you need and want.
     
  16. MH01 macrumors G4

    MH01

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    Feb 11, 2008
    #16
    Why? Cause Apple choosing to ignore the gaming industry? Also its not just games that need GPU.....

    If you think a 460 meets everyones needs, that is a very shallow point of view.

    If you cannot handle the concept of a laptop with a GPU

    Loot at the Lenovo P70.......
    --- Post Merged, Nov 29, 2016 ---
    Can I ask which 2015 model you are coming from? Mine is the 2.8 1TB unit.

    The new machine is much nicer in many ways, just performance is not one of them, the other is battery life in my experience .

    How is your battery life between the two?
     
  17. fokmik macrumors 65816

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    #17
    those who have GTX 1080 arent laptops, more like desktop. they arent portable device !!! they are huge, heavier, the noise level are a lot higher, the battery is a lot worse....so you compare a desktop class device with a laptop?
     
  18. WhiteWhaleHolyGrail macrumors 6502a

    WhiteWhaleHolyGrail

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    #18
    This!
     
  19. jerryk macrumors 68020

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    Nov 3, 2011
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    #19
    The SSD on the XPS 15 is user upgradable. As is the memory. Remove the backcover and the SSD M.2 module and memory modules are right there. One could install a Samsung Pro 960 which is the same performance as (3 GB/sec max) as the new Macbook Pro. But, the standard drive in the XPS is OEM version Samsung Pro 950 which is the same performance as the 2015 15" rMBP (1.5 GB/sec mac) so it might not make that much of a difference in real life.
     
  20. Naimfan macrumors 68040

    Naimfan

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    Jan 15, 2003
    #20
    Last I looked, the 2015 15" 2.8 was faster on geekbench than the 2.9 GHz 2016. While the 460 in the 2016 is faster than the 370 in the 2015, in terms of pure CPU I think it's embarrassing that a three year old chipset is faster than Apple's brand new design. Making it slightly thinner and lighter is not a benefit.
     
  21. fokmik macrumors 65816

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    USA
    #21
    doesnt have anything to do with thin and light, if intel decided to make same cpu but with lower consumption its good, since everything else is faster, and in real APPS and not benchmark (we dont make money from benchmark apps right?) this new MBP is a lot faster...we have nothing to say. And no one probably update from 1 to the next generation...maybe on mobile device like iphone, but if you buy a new mac late 2016 today, you expect to update it next year? so who bought a 2015 will probably wait for the 2018 model
     
  22. Charlesje macrumors member

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    Nov 17, 2016
    #22
    Cpus in the new 15'' macbook pro's are significantly faster in the cinebench performance test (i measured 744 vs 641 in the R15 multicore cpu test for the hightier models of 2016 vs 2015). It seems some people just don't want to hear this. This is the first significant cpu performance increase for the 15 inches since 2012 (next to the other advances, but in my use case cpu was the bottleneck). Skylake performs much better in notebooks exactly because of it's lower tdp.

    Geekbench shows a different outcome, and while this should invite us to dig deepe into it, it's senseless to refute a realworld performance test with a synthetic benchmark.
     
  23. MH01 macrumors G4

    MH01

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    Feb 11, 2008
    #23
    Let's forget the extremes . 1060 , though does it matter, cause suddenly people are rewriting the definition of a laptop, who says it must be thin and light . A laptop needs to be portable , there is a world of users that have purpose built machines that cater to environmental conditions and research.

    Take the levono p70, which i have stated multiple times....let's not get sidetracked by one trick wonders such as gaming laptops.

    I'm a mac user first and will always buy a MacBook Pro, but his silly notion that you cannot get a better machine for under £4K is ridiculous as the macbook is a jack of all trades with serious compromises due to its size now .
     
  24. Chancha macrumors 6502

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    Mar 19, 2014
    #24
    It is the other way, users who value on raw power are finding it less and less justifiable to get Macs, as not just the new MBP but all Macs across the current line up have more focus on arguably novelty features than not. Apple could have offered more power in their machines, or at least have specific models that do so, but they haven't for a long time.
     
  25. aevan, Nov 29, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2016

    aevan macrumors 68000

    aevan

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    Serbia
    #25
    Which feel significantly cheaper, too. And they don't run macOS. Not everyone buys computers based on the CPU & GPU alone.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 29, 2016 ---
    I don't see a better machine out there, for any price. But that's just me. If you define "better" as "better performance" - then, yes, you're right. But for me, a laptop running Windows cannot be better. A without an awesome trackpad, cannot be better, etc.

    I'm not saying MBPs are objectively best for everyone - it's ok to prefer specs over other things - but this is not an universal rule that applies to everyone. This obsession with performance needs to stop. It's 2016. These are all supercomputers. We edited 4K videos before Skylakes and Kaby Lakes. We ran Adobe apps before Nvidia series 10. I'm sure there are people who loose money if their rendering speed is not the theoretical maximum of the current generation or something - but for the majority of users, pro and non-pro alike - the PC has hit maturity. Computers are fast. It's not how much X spec you have anymore, it's how well it's built, thought out, designed, how well it works.

    Or, let me say it like this: find me a laptop (at any price point) that feels as nice as the MBP.

    Oh, wait, because pros don't care about nice and feel and all that stuff? They wear utilitarian clothes with 100 pockets, military boots and drive trucks. And their computers are, basically, motherboards in gray boxes. :D
     

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