Complaints About the 2016 MBP Underpowered Justified?

[maratus]

I don't know where all that anger comes from, but I assure you that - in my opinion - I've never actually seen a laptop (or otherwise) screen that I'd call "crappy". I've seen crappy CPU performance, crappy disk performance, crappy network performance, but actually "crappy", as in, not fit for purpose screens, never. Not functional ones anyway.

So I'm really confused as to where you're coming from. Yes the new Macbooks have very nice screens, but lots of other laptops also have very nice screens.

And I can do my work on any screen that's currently on the market. For me, resolution and size are very important. Yes, I like a good quality IPS display - I have a 5k IPS which is really nice - but it's just the cherry on the cake, not the cake.

If you need a particularly colour-accurate, calibrated etc display for professional photo/video use, that's something else. If you need a super-low-latency screen for gaming, again, that's something else. I was specifically talking about IT work, and we can even use (and have used) monochrome stuff for a long time

So when I say that screen quality doesn't factor when IT companies buy laptops, I really mean it. I never heard of anyone in the IT world - and I have plenty of experience there - complaining about Lenovo, HP or Dell screen quality.

If you have such a low tolerance for screen quality then you're lucky (oh really trying to win an argument while still using a 5k IPS screen for your work). And most of the things aren't essential for the majority of users either (even pci-e SSD, full power quad core, dGPU of any kind, laptops or even computers themselves). you can go as far as saying that color screen isn't essential for photography because you can edit all 3 channels separately on a monochrome 640x480 display.

By the way, I'd consider any TN screen in the T400/T410/T420/etc line an abomination regardless of price. Contrast, brightness variation, insane colorshift and inversion.... And stare at that for a few hours each day? No, just no. Can I work on it? Sure. Would I work on it given a slight chance to aquire anything that doesn't look like complete sht? Absolutely not.

Although ive seen people who don't understand the difference between cheapest TN and high-end IPS or OLED monitor. But you shouldn't measure worthiness of high-tech items based on their opinion, otherwise what's the point in progress?
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It's slightly slower in part because Apple configured the 2016's to drop the CPU TDP down to 35W, from 45W max, after the temps have been at T junction for a minute or two. The impact of the lower TDP is never seeing the CPU go to its max possible turbo boost. Most it gets to under those conditions is about 2.9GHz, instead of the max 3.6GHz, on the 2.7GHz 15".

Thank you for the first useful post in the thread I didn't know that

P. s. it's 3.2Ghz max under full load (8 threads) for 2.7

 

[Chancha]

That's where you are wrong these users were never apples target notebook consumer. Apple have always gone with great CPU middling GPU and a great balance between portability, battery life and overall performance.

The only reason the high end users bought them was because everyone else's notebooks were just rubbish. Now other manufacturers are not so rubbish buy something else.

I disagree on the "Apple have always gone mid-tier" argument but that has been debated to death so let's set that aside.

But what about axing SD card slots and USB-A ports altogether then? From 2015 MBP to 2016, or from cMP to nMP, one can make solid cases where Apple deliberately handicapping the potential of its product feature set to force older users of a previous model to compromise.

 

[MH01]

I
If you have such a low tolerance for screen quality then you're lucky (oh really trying to win an argument while still using a 5k IPS screen for your work). And most of the things aren't essential for the majority of users either (even pci-e SSD, full power quad core, dGPU of any kind, laptops or even computers themselves). you can go as far as saying that color screen isn't essential for photography because you can edit all 3 channels separately on a monochrome 640x480 display.

By the way, I'd consider any TN screen in the T400/T410/T420/etc line an abomination regardless of price. Contrast, brightness variation, insane colorshift and inversion.... And stare at that for a few hours each day? No, just no. Can I work on it? Sure. Would I work on it given a slight chance to aquire anything that doesn't look like complete sht? Absolutely not.

Although ive seen people who don't understand the difference between cheapest TN and high-end IPS or OLED monitor. But you shouldn't measure worthiness of high-tech items based on their opinion, otherwise what's the point in progress?
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Thank you for the first useful post in the thread I didn't know that

P. s. it's 3.2Ghz max under full load (8 threads) for 2.7

I believe you are the only one trying to create an issue on this thread in regards to screen quality. We get it, you have a much higher tolerance, but to belittle the others opinions.

it's a tool for many people they don't pixel peak and rage about colour accuracy . Not all jobs are equal of which image quality of screen is paramount ....vast majority are not , and the most obvious point here , people eyesights vary greatly, so frankly while you can tell a huge difference most cannot or just don't care to be honest.

I am looking at the 2015 v 2016 screens all week while I test , sure the 2016 is better but not £1000 better at moment, nor does it matter cause when I sit down to do real work, I plug it into a monitor which is much more accurate. When I do photography, no laptop screen has ever met my requirements , I always used a monitor, it's about real estate for me ... I've just ordered a 34" ultra wide to test .

 

[Uplift]

Max spec'ed 2016 model, 15-20% Slower than the 2015 model... Same 4K files, same version of OS/FCPX:

View attachment 675489

Is the new mac 10-15% slower at everything? or just certain tasks? why is it slower when the CPU is better?

 

[Antairez]

congratulations for missing the entire point /golf clap.

yes there are people that buy Alienware that laugh at you too mate make jokes about Starbucks and fashion accessories......dont let that smugness wear off
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I just tried to run R15 on my 2015 and 2016 and the software has failed to load on both.

Are you asking Apple to make a computer to satisfy gamers so they could ... install Windows and play games on it? Don't really understand what you are trying to say right here. You got Razor, Alienware, and all other brands out there who are willing to put in crazy specs into those heavy bricks because lets admit it Windows is quite good at gaming. Current specs are made for OSX, and work with OSX very well. Apple will never make a laptop for Windows.

 

[maflynn]

Is the new mac 10-15% slower at everything? or just certain tasks? why is it slower when the CPU is better?

Is the CPU faster? That's the question, better in what ways? Power, performance, size? It seems from what I've seen, the CPU is slower, though that issue is largely offset by the crazy fast SSD speeds.

 

[Ethosik]

People REALLY need to educate themselves on how RAM works these days. I can have 128GB of RAM, give Adobe After Effects 122GB of it, and it will WILL use all of it. Even for a very small video with a lot of effects. Does that mean 122GB is required to run Adobe After Effects? No. I can do the same thing on my 16GB rMBP just a bit slower, and I do NOT run into high memory pressure because Adobe limits the amount of RAM is uses.

Please people, educate yourselves before you complain about the ram. Do some people who run 10 virtual machines need 32GB or more? Sure, but that is not a common thing for professionals. Why do video editors need to run 10 virtual machines?

 

[msh]

I think the root of all these arguments about Macs on these forums is that Apple views the Macs segment (including notebooks) as a declining business and, therefore, is ramping down the resources allocated to it. That results in longer times between updates, designs oriented more toward the mass market with less appeal to power users and milking the declining market for additional profits with designs that encourage faster obsolescence and upfront upselling of expensive features. Makes sense for Apple - at least in the short-term - since iPhones dominate their business. Good to keep this in mind when wondering why Apple does some of the things it does with Macs.

 

[aevan]

I think the root of all these arguments about Macs on these forums is that Apple views the Macs segment (including notebooks) as a declining business and, therefore, is ramping down the resources allocated to it. That results in longer times between updates, designs oriented more toward the mass market with less appeal to power users and milking the declining market for additional profits with designs that encourage faster obsolescence and upfront upselling of expensive features. Makes sense for Apple - at least in the short-term - since iPhones dominate their business. Good to keep this in mind when wondering why Apple does some of the things it does with Macs.

The business may be declining, but Apple is certainly investing a lot of care and energy into these new Macs. Love or hate the new Touch Bar, it was a carefuly executed, complex thing that required a lot of resources for both the hardware and software side (Apple updated almost all their apps for this alone).

I also disagree with faster obsolence. I fully expect these new MBPs to last just as much as previous ones - several years. The hardware will not be enough for a long time to come only in the mystical realm of Macrumors Forums.

 

[JohnnyGo]

The business may be declining, but Apple is certainly investing a lot of care and energy into these new Macs. Love or hate the new Touch Bar, it was a carefuly executed, complex thing that required a lot of resources for both the hardware and software side (Apple updated almost all their apps for this alone).

I also disagree with faster obsolence. I fully expect these new MBPs to last just as much as previous ones - several years. The hardware will not be enough for a long time to come only in the mystical realm of Macrumors Forums.

+1

The whole discussion in this thread seems to boil down to Apple having frustrated some expectations from some of its loyal customers who wanted/woulda/coulda upgraded if such expectations were met by the new MacBooks. Now they feel disenfranchised.

Others, however, either because they did not have such expectations or are coming from older machines will appreciate the better screen m faster SSDs, faster CPU/GPU (from their standpoint). They feel welcomed by Apple.

Can't reconcile or make peace between these two very distinct groups.

 

[MH01]

Are you asking Apple to make a computer to satisfy gamers so they could ... install Windows and play games on it? Don't really understand what you are trying to say right here. You got Razor, Alienware, and all other brands out there who are willing to put in crazy specs into those heavy bricks because lets admit it Windows is quite good at gaming. Current specs are made for OSX, and work with OSX very well. Apple will never make a laptop for Windows.

No. forget gaming. If you have £4K to spend , would you buy a MacBook Pro and use it just for windows ? My point is you can get a better machine , especially if you have a specific purpose. The major selling point of the MacBook Pro is macOS ....which apple has a monopoly on. The MacBook Pro is a jack of all trades and very good at it.

You cannot say apple will never make a laptop for windows , they have for years, a major draw card is boot camp. These machines are designed to run windows and come with apple's drivers for windows .... the whole mac line up runs windows .

 

[msh]

The business may be declining, but Apple is certainly investing a lot of care and energy into these new Macs.

I think the notebooks will be the last Macs to be phased out, if ever, so not surprised that Apple is still putting resources into them but probably less in the future. MacPro, macmini - not so much.
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I also disagree with faster obsolence. I fully expect these new MBPs to last just as much as previous ones - several years.

I would hope a $3000 machine would last longer than "several years" (did you mean 2-3 years?).

 

[Antairez]

No. forget gaming. If you have £4K to spend , would you buy a MacBook Pro and use it just for windows ? My point is you can get a better machine , especially if you have a specific purpose. The major selling point of the MacBook Pro is macOS ....which apple has a monopoly on. The MacBook Pro is a jack of all trades and very good at it.

You cannot say apple will never make a laptop for windows , they have for years, a major draw card is boot camp. These machines are designed to run windows and come with apple's drivers for windows .... the whole mac line up runs windows .

You meant software? Bootcamp is a software. They only made it as a last resort for people who can't live without Windows, you also got PD and VMware, all are very good options. The thing you are typing on, that's called a hardware. Trackpad, Touchbar, Magic Mouse, Specially designed function keys .... etc. Apple will never make a laptop for Windows. Never.

 

[MH01]

You meant software? Bootcamp is a software. They only made it as a last resort for people who can't live without Windows, you also got PD and VMware, all are very good options. The thing you are typing on, that's called a hardware. Trackpad, Touchbar, Magic Mouse, Specially designed function keys .... etc. Apple will never make a laptop for Windows. Never.

I know you are trying to be smart/funny, it's not , trust me people here know what apple makes, and what it can run.

Does the MacBook Pro run windows ???

Guess what I can buy any laptop / desktop out there....none force me to run windows. this includes a MacBook Pro. I know this will blow your mind , but there are people running just windows on macs......

I guess you think dell makes laptops just for windows....they are a hardware company, like apple, you choose the OS.

 

[gdeputy]

I'm a mac user - I develop on a Mac and I do enjoy the platform.. I also run a Windows 10 box..

I'm beginning to consider a new personal laptop machine and frankly, the choice comes down to:

MacOS vs Windows - the new MBP vs Dell XPS 15".

The XPS is ONLY missing MacOS.. it's build quality and internals are top tier.. and it's internals (for 1799 at micro center) far exceed the highest spec Mac available today...

The PC game has changed... some windows machines are phenomenal spec-wise.. and build quality wise now.

The main differentiating factor is OS... and.. Apple is making it hard for me to justify.

We're seeing previous gen RAM (16gb will not be viable in 4-5 years for professionals.. it just won't be.. ) and we're seeing severely underpowered GPU's.. I mean, this 460 is worse than nVidia's LAST GEN 960m. Let alone the 1060 which stomps all over it.

The processor is standard, the ram is poor, the screen and build are admittedly quite nice but that can be had on the Dell as well (better screen, actually and mostly rivaled build quality).

If I'm buying today.. I don't know which I get but.. I'm definitely leaning towards the Dell as a working professional.

 

[Antairez]

I know you are trying to be smart/funny, it's not , trust me people here know what apple makes, and what it can run.

Does the MacBook Pro run windows ???

Guess what I can buy any laptop / desktop out there....none force me to run windows. this includes a MacBook Pro. I know this will blow your mind , but there are people running just windows on macs......

I guess you think dell makes laptops just for windows....they are a hardware company, like apple, you choose the OS.

Just because there are people using Windows only on Mac, does not imply Apple designed their laptop for Windows.

 

[Euro_Guy]

I'm a mac user - I develop on a Mac and I do enjoy the platform.. I also run a Windows 10 box..

I'm beginning to consider a new personal laptop machine and frankly, the choice comes down to:

MacOS vs Windows - the new MBP vs Dell XPS 15".

The XPS is ONLY missing MacOS.. it's build quality and internals are top tier.. and it's internals (for 1799 at micro center) far exceed the highest spec Mac available today...

The PC game has changed... some windows machines are phenomenal spec-wise.. and build quality wise now.

The main differentiating factor is OS... and.. Apple is making it hard for me to justify.

We're seeing previous gen RAM (16gb will not be viable in 4-5 years for professionals.. it just won't be.. ) and we're seeing severely underpowered GPU's.. I mean, this 460 is worse than nVidia's LAST GEN 960m. Let alone the 1060 which stomps all over it.

The processor is standard, the ram is poor, the screen and build are admittedly quite nice but that can be had on the Dell as well (better screen, actually and mostly rivaled build quality).

If I'm buying today.. I don't know which I get but.. I'm definitely leaning towards the Dell as a working professional.

Had the EXACT same considerations and went with the XPS. I'm glad I did...much cheaper, and totally enjoying the screen. Minimum bezel and soo sharp.

My major grief with the xps was the shallow keyboard, which is by the way the same on the MBP. But in real life, it works fine.

 

[MH01]

Just because there are people using Windows only on Mac, does not imply Apple designed their laptop for Windows.

Let me put it another way, when they switched to intel, it's not like they had a choice . macOS and windows now use the same hardware....

 

[elchorizo]

So much defensiveness on both sides of this. I think the best approach is to try to stay eco-system agnostic as much as possible so you can use whichever computer is the best when its time for you upgrade. I think the new MacBook pro update sucks*. I can live with it though, I've just replaced my old MacBook Pro 13" with a new XPS 13, and you know what? It's great.

Apple is currently declining** as a computer company. I'm sure they'll bounce back (I hope) and I'm sure I'll have a MacBook pro sometime again in the future, but for now, no. Look, I admit that some things are just better on MacOS. Especially development, which is what I do. I'd rather stick to Mac this go-around, but its just not worth it. Staying platform agnostic has allowed me to move to whatever computer I want at the appropriate time.

* battery life, port selection, keyboard, all downgrades, just so it can be a little thinner. Touchbar is a ****** idea. Really? I need to look down at the keyboard to make some adjustments in some apps? What am i going to do when I'm on a desk running on an external keyboard? Reach over to the physical machine? will there be an external touchbar? And I get to pay more for this? Ugh.

** Slow ass updates to computers (see MacBook pro, Mac Pro, etc...). ****** upgrades when they do come (MacBook Pro). Poor quality, this MacBook 12" I'm typing this on is a piece of ****. The left shift key only works if I press really hard and the space bar only works on about 3 out of 4 presses, and some of those "successful" presses do two ****ing spaces instead of one. Those of you moving to a new MBP with the butterfly keyboard.... have fun with that!

 

[JohnnyGo]

So much defensiveness on both sides of this. I think the best approach is to try to stay eco-system agnostic as much as possible so you can use whichever computer is the best when its time for you upgrade. I think the new MacBook pro update sucks*. I can live with it though, I've just replaced my old MacBook Pro 13" with a new XPS 13, and you know what? It's great.

Apple is currently declining** as a computer company. I'm sure they'll bounce back (I hope) and I'm sure I'll have a MacBook pro sometime again in the future, but for now, no. Look, I admit that some things are just better on MacOS. Especially development, which is what I do. I'd rather stick to Mac this go-around, but its just not worth it. Staying platform agnostic has allowed me to move to whatever computer I want at the appropriate time.

* battery life, port selection, keyboard, all downgrades, just so it can be a little thinner. Touchbar is a ****** idea. Really? I need to look down at the keyboard to make some adjustments in some apps? What am i going to do when I'm on a desk running on an external keyboard? Reach over to the physical machine? will there be an external touchbar? And I get to pay more for this? Ugh.

** Slow ass updates to computers (see MacBook pro, Mac Pro, etc...). ****** upgrades when they do come (MacBook Pro). Poor quality, this MacBook 12" I'm typing this on is a piece of ****. The left shift key only works if I press really hard and the space bar only works on about 3 out of 4 presses, and some of those "successful" presses do two ****ing spaces instead of one. Those of you moving to a new MBP with the butterfly keyboard.... have fun with that!

I will give you my opinion:
- I am glad you are happy being agnostic and I am sure it works for some people
- I am glad I am sticking with Apple and I am positive it works for most people

Here are the reasons Apple is successful (in my eyes and in the most important test: revenues/profits):
- Do you know any computer / smartphone company that updates their OS every year and covering 5-6 year old machines ? I don't.
- Specs matter in some cases but in most cases they don't, actual usage tests are showing that the new MBPs performance is better than previous models. Sometimes we wish performance gains were better but that is our fault (expectations) not Apple's fault.
- I'm typing this response using Tapatalk for iPad and a keyboard, there is a small text prediction bar on the bottom, similar to the Touchbar functionality when you type in Safari or Mail... iPad and Macbook working in similar fashion, how cool is that ?
- I think the changes Apple is making for us to work using either the iPhone iPad or MacBooks will help a lot in the workflow (continuity, etc) and that makes me comfortable to pay a premium (or Apple Tax) to continue using Apple's ecosystem

You clearly don't like the new keyboard and you should/are not forced to change. In your case, being agnostic is paying off. Others will be fine with either keyboard. Others will be fine or better of with the new keyboard. That is a fact, not all choices work for all people.

 

[motime]

I quite like Mac OS but the biggest annoyance for me has been UI lag. With a lot of applications simple animations just become choppy ie xcode chrome etc. This just isn't the case with Windows where they are really snappy all the time now.

When you drop so much money on a machine with an OS which is optimized for its hardware then there is no excuse for such choppiness. I've returned 3 MacBooks until I realized this problem is just universal.

I am going to stick with my 2015 15 amd mbp because it is good for development but I might just jump ship again when Dell releases the next xps 15 with Nvidia 10 series chip.

 

[dyn]

No, they are just not made for professional use.

If you are going to join in on the discussion then at least try to get the definition right. It doesn't help if you do not understand what a professional actually is and comes off as being completely disrespectful to a lot of people. Machines are not made for professional use because only the user will be the one that decides if the use is professional or not. Each user has a different kind of use case requiring different kinds of hardware and software. In other words, there will be professionals out there that have no use for the new MBP and there will be professionals out there that do have a use for the new MBP.

In my day to day job as a sysadmin I really do not need the computing power of the new MBP. My machine is an MBP from 3 years ago and it runs fine. What I need is a web browser and a terminal because all my work is done with web based tools and on remote machines. It is nice that the machine has a lot of memory because that allows me to run a vm for some local testing but that is something that could also be done remotely. The notebook I use docked and it would have been nice if I had an actual dock so I don't have to connect/disconnect the network card, display (mDP and USB) plus power (with Thunderbolt that would be just TB and power). Just to give you an idea of actual professional use (there are many more and many different examples!). Not everyone has the same job and the same workflow. That's why not everyone on my team uses a Mac, we all use what we are used to.

They are well built but with limited specs.

Just like any other notebook. The specs are limited because notebooks come with limitations. Desktops also come with limitations but they are nowhere near as limited as notebooks are. If you care a lot about specs then stop looking at notebooks, turn to desktops instead.

Know thy tools and know thy users!

 

[Derpage]

If you are going to join in on the discussion then at least try to get the definition right. It doesn't help if you do not understand what a professional actually is and comes off as being completely disrespectful to a lot of people. Machines are not made for professional use because only the user will be the one that decides if the use is professional or not. Each user has a different kind of use case requiring different kinds of hardware and software. In other words, there will be professionals out there that have no use for the new MBP and there will be professionals out there that do have a use for the new MBP.

In my day to day job as a sysadmin I really do not need the computing power of the new MBP. My machine is an MBP from 3 years ago and it runs fine. What I need is a web browser and a terminal because all my work is done with web based tools and on remote machines. It is nice that the machine has a lot of memory because that allows me to run a vm for some local testing but that is something that could also be done remotely. The notebook I use docked and it would have been nice if I had an actual dock so I don't have to connect/disconnect the network card, display (mDP and USB) plus power (with Thunderbolt that would be just TB and power). Just to give you an idea of actual professional use (there are many more and many different examples!). Not everyone has the same job and the same workflow. That's why not everyone on my team uses a Mac, we all use what we are used to.


Just like any other notebook. The specs are limited because notebooks come with limitations. Desktops also come with limitations but they are nowhere near as limited as notebooks are. If you care a lot about specs then stop looking at notebooks, turn to desktops instead.

Know thy tools and know thy users!

Enjoy your consumer electronic device. I hope it works out well for you. The machine isn't built with professionals in mind. It was built for the masses and marketed as for professional use. There isn't even an enterprise solution for any Apple computers. It's a joke in most all professional crowds. Sorry.

 

[aevan]

Enjoy your consumer electronic device. I hope it works out well for you.

He just explained it to you that it's very much a professional device. You're obviously trolling and trying to jab, but in reality, I don't think you understand what a professional device actually means.

 

[Derpage]

He just explained it to you that it's very much a professional device. You're obviously trolling and trying to jab, but in reality, I don't think you understand what a professional device actually means.

If you think I'm trolling. Ignore it. What's rule number 1 of the internet? You are allowed your opinion, I'm allowed mine. Don't like it, ignore me or go elsewhere.