Contract and Subsidy Issues for iPhone Users Looking to Upgrade to iPhone 3G S

[hellodon]

It sucks, nothing we can do.

What I don't understand is that they say when you get the phone at a subsidized price, you make up for it within your 2 year contract, right? So some portion is going towards making up for the phone price that they supposedly "LOST" by selling it to you at a cheaper rate right?

If that's the case...why did we pay the same price when we bought the first phone outright for 600 dollars and then signed a 2 year contract? Where was the discount for NOT getting a subsidized price point then?

They are full of ****...and this is a load of crap. AT&T is the worst.

 

[PharmD]

It has been said a hundred times already, but this is not a new thing when you sign a 2 year contract. I'm sorry you guys have to pay extra for the latest and greatest since you're mid-contract but those are the ropes.

 

[.:R2theT]

If that's the case...why did we pay the same price when we bought the first phone outright for 600 dollars and then signed a 2 year contract? Where was the discount for NOT getting a subsidized price point then?

They are full of ****...and this is a load of crap. AT&T is the worst.

Not that your last statement isn't true but I do believe 3Gers pay more for data or don't get the included text messages or maybe both.

That was the big issue everybody had last year.

It's always something.

 

[firstapple]

OK. I just got off the phone with AT&T customer service. The call went pretty well. I am a 3G owner, got mine during first month of launch. Here are my scenarios:

1. I could upgrade to the 3G S on June 19th. It is up to the store manager of the AT&T store to decide whether or not they want to give me the early upgrade price of $399 16GB, $499 32GB. (This is exactly what my upgrade eligibility shows in AT&T's system according to the customer service rep I talked with).

2. The manager could also decide they don't want to give me that price and I must pay full price on launch day. So, $599 16GB, $699 32GB.

3. If I wait until August 8th, my upgrade day, I can get the iPhone 3G S for $199 16GB, $299 32GB.

I am glad I called. I will simply wait until August 8th, and by that time hopefully Apple will have most bugs out of the new OS, and AT&T will have calmed down from all the craziness of the new release!

 

[Lanbrown]

People love to blame others for their failures. In this case, not thinking ahead. This is SOP in the industry, love it or hate it. AT&T deserves no more ire than every other carrier. Apple deserve none of it.

If you stand on the tracks, don’t complain when the train hits you.

Apple deserves just as much. They get money from the contracts as well.

 

[gkarris]

It sucks, nothing we can do.

What I don't understand is that they say when you get the phone at a subsidized price, you make up for it within your 2 year contract, right? So some portion is going towards making up for the phone price that they supposedly "LOST" by selling it to you at a cheaper rate right?

If that's the case...why did we pay the same price when we bought the first phone outright for 600 dollars and then signed a 2 year contract? Where was the discount for NOT getting a subsidized price point then?

They are full of ****...and this is a load of crap. AT&T is the worst.

LOL...

It was pretty clear back then that the original iPhone was not subsized, so it let people who had a contract already just go out and buy the new iPhone instead of having to cancel their current contract. They just had to extend it two years.

Then, it made it possible mearly one year later to get the 3G subsidized, as the original iPhone was not.

There's your savings...

 

[Peace]

It has been said a hundred times already, but this is not a new thing when you sign a 2 year contract. I'm sorry you guys have to pay extra for the latest and greatest since you're mid-contract but those are the ropes.

That is correct as is the fact that AT&T and Apple are going to lose $199 or $299 for every iPhone 3GS they don't sell to the people that bought the first and second gen. iPhone when they first came out. Most of these people will not pay the $499/$599 or $699.


This is a big loss for both companies.

 

[goodwilldrums]

i really dont understand why this is such an issue. With any other subsidized phone...if a newer model came out....you wouldnt just go to att and say...oh i have the old version of that...i would like the new one...please give it to me at that subsidized rate....

why are people all of a sudden shocked at this practice?

Because last year it wasn't an issue at all. The iPhone 3G cost the same no matter what. It was $199 or $299. There was no qualifying for not having to pay $399 or $499.

 

[RunOverProducti]

Not that your last statement isn't true but I do believe 3Gers pay more for data or don't get the included text messages or maybe both.

That was the big issue everybody had last year.

It's always something.

3G Customers don't pay more for data, when they had the first Gen iPhone it was $20 bucks remember? while all other data phones were still $30 like Blackberry, BlackJack, Palm Treo... Now is $30, so to correct you 3G customers don't pay more, you're in the same boat as if you wanted to go with Blackberry.

 

[rjohnstone]

It sucks, nothing we can do.

What I don't understand is that they say when you get the phone at a subsidized price, you make up for it within your 2 year contract, right? So some portion is going towards making up for the phone price that they supposedly "LOST" by selling it to you at a cheaper rate right?

If that's the case...why did we pay the same price when we bought the first phone outright for 600 dollars and then signed a 2 year contract? Where was the discount for NOT getting a subsidized price point then?

They are full of ****...and this is a load of crap. AT&T is the worst.

Umm... get your facts straight before you start bitching.
1st Gen iPhone owners got a 33% discount on the data plan ($20 per month instead of $30) and 200 free SMS messages.

 

[.:R2theT]

Apple deserves just as much.

Just like every other overpriced product it sells each and every day.

I love Apple products and don't see myself buying much else anytime soon but there is definitely a premium that gets paid for that little .

I think it's worth it but it ain't cheap!

 

[zizo79]

OK. I just got off the phone with AT&T customer service. The call went pretty well. I am a 3G owner, got mine during first month of launch. Here are my scenarios:

1. I could upgrade to the 3G S on June 19th. It is up to the store manager of the AT&T store to decide whether or not they want to give me the early upgrade price of $399 16GB, $499 32GB. (This is exactly what my upgrade eligibility shows in AT&T's system according to the customer service rep I talked with).

2. The manager could also decide they don't want to give me that price and I must pay full price on launch day. So, $599 16GB, $699 32GB.

3. If I wait until August 8th, my upgrade day, I can get the iPhone 3G S for $199 16GB, $299 32GB.

I am glad I called. I will simply wait until August 8th, and by that time hopefully Apple will have most bugs out of the new OS, and AT&T will have calmed down from all the craziness of the new release!

I don`t think that you should wait !! My upgrade eligibility was May 26th 09 ...I was able to get an early upgrade in February 09 ..managers do not want to loose business...I tried two ATT stores, got turned down in the first one then got it done in the second one...then I returned the Iphone because I knew about a possible release of the new 3GS
One advice: Att's customer service are full of crap and don't follow up on their notes so sont belive what they say !! go to a store !!

 

[.:R2theT]

3G Customers don't pay more for data, when they had the first Gen iPhone it was $20 bucks remember? while all other data phones were still $30 like Blackberry, BlackJack, Palm Treo... Now is $30, so to correct you 3G customers don't pay more, you're in the same boat as if you wanted to go with Blackberry.

The 3Gers pay more than the original iPhone owners($20) plus we have included text messages, if my memory serves me correctly.

 

[hellodon]

Not that your last statement isn't true but I do believe 3Gers pay more for data or don't get the included text messages or maybe both.

That was the big issue everybody had last year.

It's always something.

Yes the iPhone subscription price did go up from 20 to 30.... But they claimed this was for use of the 3g network so they were either lying about that and the extra 10 was indeed to make up for the price or this whole subsidized crap is just an excuse to say "we only want new customers"

if you buy the 3g phone on eBay and then sign up for AT&T, you still pay the same rate...so if they truly are making up for the loss then they should show on your bill what you pay that goes toward that each month and if you come into it with your own phone paid for, it should be discounted.

The whole thing is so shady

 

[.:R2theT]

The whole thing is so shady

I agree. But so are taxes. And insurance.

But if you want to play, you have to pay.

 

[mac*jedi*g]

Yup. I got my first gen iPhone on the ATT refurb deal, too bad ATT didn't see a dime of my cash. I unlocked it and kept it on my t-mo account from day one!

But alas, its time to pay my dues, and I deem the 3G "Tuned by Jobs" model to quite a capable device. I can't help but LOL at the masses. At first they are pissed that ATT won't give them ANOTHER subsidized device, then they try to bag it and SPECULATE about the future iPhone having time travel, 1 Tb, Twenty Cameras, Ultra High Definition Display and elaborate racketeering by Apple and every carrier in the world to really only benefit the original 3G purchasers in the year 2010.

Give me a break.

You are on the point! Heh heh heh...."time travel"... I like that one.

I'm waiting until next years model: "iPhone an eye" ... Then we'll "one-up" the 3G-Sers!!!

 

[zizo79]

Yes the iPhone subscription price did go up from 20 to 30.... But they claimed this was for use of the 3g network so they were either lying about that and the extra 10 was indeed to make up for the price or this whole subsidized crap is just an excuse to say "we only want new customers"
The whole thing is so shady

I like that " We only want new customers" because as a long time time ATT customer, I tried to upgrade my wife,s phone to a refurb Iphone 3G I was told many times that it only valid for new customers....I mean what the hell is wrong with current customers who are willing to remain ATT customer by siging new contracts ???? total BS !!

 

[hellodon]

Umm... get your facts straight before you start bitching.
1st Gen iPhone owners got a 33% discount on the data plan ($20 per month instead of $30) and 200 free SMS messages.

Please see my last message before YOU start being a jerk. I already mentioned it...and also brought up the point that if that additional money does NOT go towards the use of the 3G network as they say it does...and that 10 bucks is going towards making up for the subsidized price discount then why would a customer that signs up for AT&T with their own iphone that they bought on their own NOT get 10 dollars off...it's a crock and you know it

 

[Applepi]

I understood the rules when I signed on the dotted line. I myself am just going to wait until next summer to upgrade from my 3G, I have a feeling the wait will be well worth it.

 

[cameronjpu]

Please see my last message before YOU start being a jerk. I already mentioned it...and also brought up the point that if that additional money dies NOT go towards the use of the 3G network as they say it does...and that 10 bucks is going towards making up for the subsidized price discount then why would a customer that sign up for AT&T with a phone they bought on their own NOT get 10 dollars off...it's a crock and you know it

Um... none of the money goes TOWARD anything. It goes into the bank. Some of your dollars are used to buy new cell towers. Some of them are used to buy network bandwidth. And some are used to buy toilet paper for ATT headquarters. SOME are even used to buy coke for ATT execs!

The fact is that 2G data service was $20 and 3G data service was $30 (+$5 for SMS). It's indisputable that 3G users paid more.

 

[mac*jedi*g]

OK. I just got off the phone with AT&T customer service. The call went pretty well. I am a 3G owner, got mine during first month of launch. Here are my scenarios:

1. I could upgrade to the 3G S on June 19th. It is up to the store manager of the AT&T store to decide whether or not they want to give me the early upgrade price of $399 16GB, $499 32GB. (This is exactly what my upgrade eligibility shows in AT&T's system according to the customer service rep I talked with).

2. The manager could also decide they don't want to give me that price and I must pay full price on launch day. So, $599 16GB, $699 32GB.

3. If I wait until August 8th, my upgrade day, I can get the iPhone 3G S for $199 16GB, $299 32GB.

I am glad I called. I will simply wait until August 8th, and by that time hopefully Apple will have most bugs out of the new OS, and AT&T will have calmed down from all the craziness of the new release!

You are smart to wait for the end of your contract. Being in all that madness in the begin launch is not worth it. I waited almost month and a half after the launch of the iPhone 3G. By the time I went in, I spent about 40 minutes total for purchase to program...and out the door. the less time I spend at the AT&T store the better.

 

[Maximilianaire]

Possible Way To Change Your Upgrade Date

If in fact your upgrade date is determined from your monthly bill amount, which has not been confirmed, there may be a way to change your upgrade date. According to the AT&T site (http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/wh...-advantage.jsp) your Monthly Recurring Cost (MRC) is based on a three month average of your rate plan plus selected data features. In my case, I am eligible on 12/12 after joining AT&T by purchasing the 3G on the first day it was available. I currently pay $89 a month before taxes and fees. If I increase my bill by enough to raise my 3 month average to over $99 it is possible my upgrade date will change to July.

This would follow the theory that your upgrade date is determined by your monthly rate. People that pay over $99 a month may be the ones getting a July upgrade. This would explain why the primary line of a family plan would get the upgrade and secondary lines would not. According to this site (http://www.wirefly.com/upgrades/eligibility/att/) I fall in the middle range, which may explain my December upgrade date. Upgrade dates after this may be caused by having a lower monthly rate.

Does this match people's upgrade dates/monthly rates? Or does anyone have straight answers from AT&T?

 

[Lanbrown]

Although i don't live in the US i feel it is almost time for a petition against ATT... all they seem to do is restrict the iPhone. I know this article isn't just about ATT but it is yet another thing on top of the delayed MMS and tethering... Come on Apple you can do better! Has anyone else had the feeling that ATT has been restricting possible iPhone features for the rest of us?

No more restrictive than what Apple has done.

seems like a mess. hopefully i can find a loophole though

Pay the price or pay the early termination fee. You signed a 2-year contract.

I believe this link is a better explanation of who is eligible.

http://www.wirefly.com/upgrades/eligibility/att/


I bought my iPhone 3G opening day and have been billed more than $100 before taxes and fees every month. I have paid on time every month and the at&t site says I "may" be eligible for an up grade on or after 7.12.09.

A contract is a contract. Be happy they are not asking you to fulfill the entire two-years before an upgrade.

The problem has been caused by carriers insisting on 18 and 24 month contracts for iPhone users. I understand this is to give them enough time to recoup the cost of the subsidy, but for a product that is going to be updated every 12 months (or thereabouts), tying people to one device any longer than 12 months is unreasonable.

Some people still have the original iPhone. How is it unreasonable when they are providing a way for you to upgrade to the latest? After a year, you still owe them money, what are they going to do, add two years on the remaining year you still have to go. Then you have a three-year contract and in a year when the next iPhone is released, you will have a four-year contract. See where this is headed? If you want a new phone every single year, then pay the price. The majority of what the iPhone offers has been available on other phones for many years.

Internet browsing; 6-years now.
MMS; 6 years.
GPS; three years.
The list goes on and on.

Yeah... this is really good business. Obviously their superior business model is what has propelled them to success, not the fact that the iphone is locked to them as a carrier. Piss people off, that's the way to flourish and improve a battered reputation!

AT&T has been in the 1st/2nd position for a number of years. If Sprint had the iPhone, they would still be in 3rd place.

Sure, AT&T are well within their rights to do this, but I say it's a bad business decision. Treat your existing customers really well, and they'll really want to stay around. AT&T's combination of terrible coverage and mystery fees makes me very anxious to jump ship the moment Verizon gets an iPhone.

You still owe them money from the first phone. This is nothing new; it has been like this foe years and not just in the US.

AT&T and Apple will fail with this new iPhone and not just because of the lack of discounts for iPhone 3G users. But also because of the lack of MMS.

And it won't bother me one bit.

The iPhone hasn't had the basic feature of MMS since it has been released.

 

[hellodon]

Um... none of the money goes TOWARD anything. It goes into the bank. Some of your dollars are used to buy new cell towers. Some of them are used to buy network bandwidth. And some are used to buy toilet paper for ATT headquarters. SOME are even used to buy coke for ATT execs!

The fact is that 2G data service was $20 and 3G data service was $30 (+$5 for SMS). It's indisputable that 3G users paid more.

What AT&T says is that they can offer the lower price for new customers along with a 2 year contract because over the course of that 2 years, they are making up for the money that they lost by giving you the phone at a lower rate. A portion each month goes towards that loss.

So the reason they say that they can't offer the new phone to those that bought the 3G is because those users are currently in a 2 year agreement...and purchased a phone for $199 dollars...and over the course of that 2 years a portion of their bill is still paying them back on that loss. So doing it again would overlap certain months that should be covering costs on the 3G phone in their pocket, and now going towards ANOTHER phone at a subsidized rate so they'd be losing money overall.

But my point is - if thats really the case...then why arent those who arent buying this phone at AT&T, or original iPhone users given a discounted rate - seeing as there should be no portion of the bill needed to pay back AT&T on their loss....

Some have mentioned that the iPhone 1 users paid 20 a month for the plan and 3G users pay 30...and that 10 dollars is used to make up for the subsidized price...but again, if you buy your own phone and do not buy it through AT&T, you're not getting any sort of discounted rate plan...plus, AT&T claimed that the additional cost for the 3G rate plan was for use of the 3G networks...not any sort of "subsidized 'pay us back' tax".... so it just seems like a lame/made up excuse.

 

[meagain]

If in fact your upgrade date is determined from your monthly bill amount, which has not been confirmed, there may be a way to change your upgrade date. According to the AT&T site (http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/wh...-advantage.jsp) your Monthly Recurring Cost (MRC) is based on a three month average of your rate plan plus selected data features. In my case, I am eligible on 12/12 after joining AT&T by purchasing the 3G on the first day it was available. I currently pay $89 a month before taxes and fees. If I increase my bill by enough to raise my 3 month average to over $99 it is possible my upgrade date will change to July.

This would follow the theory that your upgrade date is determined by your monthly rate. People that pay over $99 a month may be the ones getting a July upgrade. This would explain why the primary line of a family plan would get the upgrade and secondary lines would not. According to this site (http://www.wirefly.com/upgrades/eligibility/att/) I fall in the middle range, which may explain my December upgrade date. Upgrade dates after this may be caused by having a lower monthly rate.

Does this match people's upgrade dates/monthly rates? Or does anyone have straight answers from AT&T?

NO. It's not the monthly bill, it's the price paid monthly per LINE. If you have one iPhone paying $99 or more and a 2nd iPhone on a family plan paying $39.99, the $39.99 person is SOL.