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Yes yes I understand Mr. Advocate. Legally, legally... You know there are some countries in Europe where they have to sell the iPhones "officially unlocked" without any two-years contract? Only because you can dictate customers what you want here with those crazy "plans" does not mean that it's nothing but "legally".

You don't understand the issue at all. The "officially unlocked" 16G 3G in Europe costs 800 Euros. The subsidized ATT 16G 3G in the US costs $300.

The difference is that ATT pays Apple $400 per phone to keep the user price down to $300. ATT makes back the $400 it paid to apple on the users' behalf over the two years of the contract. The ATT phones are so much cheaper because ATT has bought them for you; ATT will get its money back over the two year period of the contract.

If you took out a two year loan from a bank to buy a phone for $400, and after paying back $200 you told the bank that you would like to borrow another $400 *and* have the bank forgive the $200 you still owe on the first loan, do you think they would go for that? Banks here do some dumb things, but I don't think that even they would be that dumb.

And the thing is, keeping in mind that ATT lent you $400 for your phone, they are being as reasonable as possible. If you have only had a contract for a year, they will partially subsidize your new phone with a new contract - you pay $300, they pay $200, and you get a new 3G-S phone for $500 rather than the list price of $700. Or, if you don't want a contract, you can also just buy a no-commitment phone for $700.

Finally, although the details on this aren't clear, it looks like some people with expensive plans are allowed to buy a new subsidized phone after one year - presumably because they paid enough to cover ATT's loan for the cost of the phone.

But the fact that some countries in Europe require iPhones to sold at the full 800 Euro price has nothing to do with the fact that people who bought iPhones in the US for $300 and a two year contract commitment don't understand why ATT won't let them out of the contract and buy them most of a new phone after only one year.
 
$499 was the early upgrade price. $699 the unsubsidised price. So if the Apple store said it was unsubsidised, they were wrong and it did affect your upgrade eligibility. If you're going to complain to anyone it should be the Apple store, though I'd check the paper work first to see what you signed and agreed to.

'early' upgrade price? this seems new, and yes, this is what i was told by the apple store.

i guess the problem lies in the channels (at&t/apple) not giving the same information. my case seems somewhat different as i tried to hedge by bets in the event of an upgrade by paying more while continuing to keep myself eligible...the woman at at&t said the same thing today, i should have purchased my phone at at&T, but that seems like a horrible practice since i am being told in some instances that it doesnt matter where you buy the phone, and in others it does because the chances you'll get accurate information are better in one location vs. another.
 
Maybe its because people are getting pushed into all kinds of contracts unwittingly and they are just now starting to look at those contracts and say fowl.

It isn't unwittingly

People just don't feel like reviewing the contract or maybe they know about the contract but tell themselves that a year down the line, they hope they will just get a "break" from someone to lower the contract length

If people don't know how long their contracts are, they are the idiots for not reading it.
 
iPhone 3Gs Pricing.

Ok, first off let me start by saying I completely understand where AT&T is coming from.

That said...

Why didn't I have an option for a 1 year contract so I could take advantage of the upgrade pricing this year OR a two year contract that (said upfront) wouldn't allow my yearly new iPhone. I know in the end it is a wash. But... that kind of straight forwardness from a company would alleviate all of the complaining this year. Plus... in the long run your customers would trust you as a company more.

That's my two cents...
 
'early' upgrade price? this seems new, and yes, this is what i was told by the apple store.

i guess the problem lies in the channels (at&t/apple) not giving the same information. my case seems somewhat different as i tried to hedge by bets in the event of an upgrade by paying more while continuing to keep myself eligible...the woman at at&t said the same thing today, i should have purchased my phone at at&T, but that seems like a horrible practice since i am being told in some instances that it doesnt matter where you buy the phone, and in others it does because the chances you'll get accurate information are better in one location vs. another.

In the case of dealing with your service AT&T should be better place to go to than Apple. Especially since they are the ones providing the service.
 
Att

I am not mad at them at all I think it is definitely within their right to do this. I did sign the contract and almost carriers have plans like this. I am just wondering why I can get it July 12th and my best friend has to wait till Dec. and we have both gotten both phones and the same day.
 
Ok, first off let me start by saying I completely understand where AT&T is coming from.

That said...

Why didn't I have an option for a 1 year contract so I could take advantage of the upgrade pricing this year OR a two year contract that (said upfront) wouldn't allow my yearly new iPhone. I know in the end it is a wash. But... that kind of straight forwardness from a company would alleviate all of the complaining this year. Plus... in the long run your customers would trust you as a company more.

That's my two cents...

I don't think that ATT really knew/knows what Apple is going to do, so I don't think that they can build it into their contracts.

Also, aren't you better under the current system? Under your system, you would buy a subsidized phone from Apple and pay $400 to ATT over the course of one year, entitling you to a new subsidized phone after one year.

Under the current system, you buy a subsidized phone from Apple and pay $200 to ATT for two years, entitling you to a new subsidized phone after two years. *Or*, you buy a subsidized phone from Apple, pay $200 to ATT for one year, and buy a new *partially subsidized* phone for the subsidized price plus $200.

Under your system, you have already paid the $400 back after one year, even if you decide that maybe the new iPhone isn't worth the upgrade. Under the current system, you've paid $200 back after a year, and you have the option of paying a $200 surcharge for a partially subsidized phone (which is basically the same deal under your plan) *or*, if you don't think that the new phone is worth buying, you have another year to pay off the remaining $200 from your contract and can then decide if you would like to upgrade.

I think that the current system offers more choice.
 
In the case of dealing with your service AT&T should be better place to go to than Apple. Especially since they are the ones providing the service.

if its like last year ATT stores will get a lot less phones, even if you reserved one you may get a voucher.

The Apple store had tons of phones, at 7:00am there were 125 people in line, I have a phone on reserve I plan to get to my Apple store at 5;00 or 6:00.

I need to do an add a line, but the applestore said they can do that.

I would go to the Apple store if you want a phone day one.

I seriously doubt any amount of hagling is going to get you a better price.:)
 
Correct Story about AT&T

Ground Truth: It turns out, the majority of what everyone, including myself, has been thinking with regards to the new iPhone is false. For those of you with iPhones, please simply dial 611 (customer service). They'll tell you the same thing...

iPhone 3Gs: Current iPhone 3G customers DO qualify for new line pricing. I called customer service...they cancelled my existing contract, with no termination fees. Then they put a note in the system that authorizes me to walk into an ATT store and pre-order the 3Gs, either the 16 or 32, black or white, makes no difference. The only catch is going to an ATT store in person for the pre-order upgrade. But, yes, we can actually get the iPhone 3Gs at the discounted, new line prices.

Tethering -- Ok, so our existing iPhone data plans just went from $30 to $40 if you get the new phone, however, that extra $10 is what gives you the tethering. There will be no additional $40-$70 cost, on top of the $30 data plan we already pay, as many have suggested. Currently, the combined iPhone/tethering bandwidth usage will be limited to 5GB per month.

So, the only two unknowns here (1) If/when that limit will be lifted, or (2) if a tiered system will be available. However, when compared to the approximately $60 laptop data connect I was paying with Verizon, which is what ATT also charges, an extra $10 to have an all in one device, that frees up a USB port and actually saves me $50 a month really isn't that bad :)

Please spread the word...

UPDATE: After walking into the store, it turns out ATT's system didn't allow the guys in the store to directly honor what the customer service rep authorized in the notes section of my account. However, instead, they placed a $200 credit on my account, which means no iPhone bill this summer, which means in the end, although I too bought the iPhone 3G the day it came out last year, I essentially pre-ordered the new 3Gs for the new-line price.
 
if its like last year ATT stores will get a lot less phones, even if you reserved one you may get a voucher.

The Apple store had tons of phones, at 7:00am there were 125 people in line, I have a phone on reserve I plan to get to my Apple store at 5;00 or 6:00.

I need to do an add a line, but the applestore said they can do that.

I would go to the Apple store if you want a phone day one.

I seriously doubt any amount of hagling is going to get you a better price.:)

The only thing there is the Apple store may not be able to help you if you have a FAN attached to your account. Or at least they were not able to help during the 2G->3G transition. Otherwise I would def go to Apple.
 
Ground Truth: It turns out, the majority of what everyone, including myself, has been thinking with regards to the new iPhone is false. For those of you with iPhones, please simply dial 611 (customer service). They'll tell you the same thing...

iPhone 3Gs: Current iPhone 3G customers DO qualify for new line pricing. I called customer service...they cancelled my existing contract, with no termination fees. Then they put a note in the system that authorizes me to walk into an ATT store and pre-order the 3Gs, either the 16 or 32, black or white, makes no difference. The only catch is going to an ATT store in person for the pre-order upgrade. But, yes, we can actually get the iPhone 3Gs at the discounted, new line prices.

Tethering -- Ok, so our existing iPhone data plans just went from $30 to $40 if you get the new phone, however, that extra $10 is what gives you the tethering. There will be no additional $40-$70 cost, on top of the $30 data plan we already pay, as many have suggested. Currently, the combined iPhone/tethering bandwidth usage will be limited to 5GB per month.

So, the only two unknowns here (1) If/when that limit will be lifted, or (2) if a tiered system will be available. However, when compared to the approximately $60 laptop data connect I was paying with Verizon, which is what ATT also charges, an extra $10 to have an all in one device, that frees up a USB port and actually saves me $50 a month really isn't that bad :)

Please spread the word...

B). Current iPhone 3G owners WILL? be able to qualify for new line price of ?? $199/299 or $399/$499 for iPhone 3GS

What if I don't care about Tethering? do I still MUST upgrade to $40 per month plan and limited to 5GB. Does that include messaging as well or that's extra too?

PS. did u call or you work for ATT

thanks!!
 
I don't think that ATT really knew/knows what Apple is going to do, so I don't think that they can build it into their contracts.

Also, aren't you better under the current system? Under your system, you would buy a subsidized phone from Apple and pay $400 to ATT over the course of one year, entitling you to a new subsidized phone after one year.

Under the current system, you buy a subsidized phone from Apple and pay $200 to ATT for two years, entitling you to a new subsidized phone after two years. *Or*, you buy a subsidized phone from Apple, pay $200 to ATT for one year, and buy a new *partially subsidized* phone for the subsidized price plus $200.

Under your system, you have already paid the $400 back after one year, even if you decide that maybe the new iPhone isn't worth the upgrade. Under the current system, you've paid $200 back after a year, and you have the option of paying a $200 surcharge for a partially subsidized phone (which is basically the same deal under your plan) *or*, if you don't think that the new phone is worth buying, you have another year to pay off the remaining $200 from your contract and can then decide if you would like to upgrade.

I think that the current system offers more choice.

Holy crap... you are right... THIS is why forums are great. Someone else can show you the light.:)

But...

you better believe I'll be trying this...

Ground Truth: It turns out, the majority of what everyone, including myself, has been thinking with regards to the new iPhone is false. For those of you with iPhones, please simply dial 611 (customer service). They'll tell you the same thing...

iPhone 3Gs: Current iPhone 3G customers DO qualify for new line pricing. I called customer service...they cancelled my existing contract, with no termination fees. Then they put a note in the system that authorizes me to walk into an ATT store and pre-order the 3Gs, either the 16 or 32, black or white, makes no difference. The only catch is going to an ATT store in person for the pre-order upgrade. But, yes, we can actually get the iPhone 3Gs at the discounted, new line prices.

Tethering -- Ok, so our existing iPhone data plans just went from $30 to $40 if you get the new phone, however, that extra $10 is what gives you the tethering. There will be no additional $40-$70 cost, on top of the $30 data plan we already pay, as many have suggested. Currently, the combined iPhone/tethering bandwidth usage will be limited to 5GB per month.

So, the only two unknowns here (1) If/when that limit will be lifted, or (2) if a tiered system will be available. However, when compared to the approximately $60 laptop data connect I was paying with Verizon, which is what ATT also charges, an extra $10 to have an all in one device, that frees up a USB port and actually saves me $50 a month really isn't that bad :)

Please spread the word...
 

Foundation Account Number. It is how 3G users have gotten 10-35% off their bill.
AT&T Business On the left is a place you can enter your work or school email to see if you qualify for the FAN attachment. From there you get a discount, if your school or business negotiated it, and you get Premier Support. Which I hear is far nicer than the usual CSRs.
 
tying people to one device any longer than 12 months is unreasonable.

No one is tying anyone to a device. If you want an iPhone 3G S, you can get one. You just have to pay $100 more than people who are eligible for an upgrade. This is not a conspiracy by AT&T to cheat iPhone customers. This is just the policy for any phone upgrade.
 
Help?

Can someone walk me through my upgrade options?

Joined AT&T with a "gifted" original iPhone in Nov '07. Purchased a 3G in Aug of 08. In Jan of 09, I damaged my 3G beyond use, and had to reactivate my original iPhone. I'd like to upgrade to the 3GS.

I'm not one of those folks that thinks I'm entitled to a discount, but am wondering what my options are. I can't afford to pay full price, but am in need of a GPS enabled phone and in desire of a 3G enabled phone.

Prior to the 3GS announcement, I was considering switching to Sprint and the Pre, for coverage reasons as much as anything else. The cancellation fee is swallowable based on the monthly plans I would be able to get from Sprint.

The options on the 3GS are enough to keep me on AT&T, should I be able to find an affordable upgrade option.

So, any ideas?
 
All you guys getting the 599 699 message:


Pay your bill. I just did it, 10 minutes later my prices went down and I ordered the phone.

Seriously.
 
I would happily pay more for an iPhone if I could sign a 12 month contract with O2, but they don't allow it.

If you buy a 3GS at full price now you will have only 6 months left on your contract. Problem solved.
 
Ground Truth: It turns out, the majority of what everyone, including myself, has been thinking with regards to the new iPhone is false. For those of you with iPhones, please simply dial 611 (customer service). They'll tell you the same thing...

iPhone 3Gs: Current iPhone 3G customers DO qualify for new line pricing. I called customer service...they cancelled my existing contract, with no termination fees. Then they put a note in the system that authorizes me to walk into an ATT store and pre-order the 3Gs, either the 16 or 32, black or white, makes no difference. The only catch is going to an ATT store in person for the pre-order upgrade. But, yes, we can actually get the iPhone 3Gs at the discounted, new line prices.

Tethering -- Ok, so our existing iPhone data plans just went from $30 to $40 if you get the new phone, however, that extra $10 is what gives you the tethering. There will be no additional $40-$70 cost, on top of the $30 data plan we already pay, as many have suggested. Currently, the combined iPhone/tethering bandwidth usage will be limited to 5GB per month.

So, the only two unknowns here (1) If/when that limit will be lifted, or (2) if a tiered system will be available. However, when compared to the approximately $60 laptop data connect I was paying with Verizon, which is what ATT also charges, an extra $10 to have an all in one device, that frees up a USB port and actually saves me $50 a month really isn't that bad :)

Please spread the word...

Please . . . .

Never let facts stand in the way of a bunch of good rants!

Rocketman
 
Reading much of the commentary, it seems that many view the subsidy as a "loan" that we pay back. But I find it odd that AT&T treats the 'loan' as never paid back as the payments don't decrease even once the loan is paid. What loan is there where once you are officially paid off you have to keep making the payments? In this regard, it seems that this argument is really lop-sided. At the end of two years, then our monthly bills should be going down accordingly. But they don't....you keep making the same payment.

It also seems to me that the iPhone is really a paradigm shift in the cell-phone landscape. It's really, for probably a great deal of us, used less for cell phone/voice calling than it is as an entirely new device altogether i.e. voice, ipod, apps, internet, etc. As such, it's difficult to compare the traditional 18-month minimum upgrade cycle in a traditional cell phone upgrade cycle vs a 12-month upgrade cycle for the product itself. The two are simply not in sync, but needs to become so. Do it fairly for both customers and the businesses, but get the two to match up so that your customers continue to feel valued and loyal.
 
Also, aren't you better under the current system? Under your system, you would buy a subsidized phone from Apple and pay $400 to ATT over the course of one year, entitling you to a new subsidized phone after one year.

Under the current system, you buy a subsidized phone from Apple and pay $200 to ATT for two years, entitling you to a new subsidized phone after two years. *Or*, you buy a subsidized phone from Apple, pay $200 to ATT for one year, and buy a new *partially subsidized* phone for the subsidized price plus $200.

Under your system, you have already paid the $400 back after one year, even if you decide that maybe the new iPhone isn't worth the upgrade. Under the current system, you've paid $200 back after a year, and you have the option of paying a $200 surcharge for a partially subsidized phone (which is basically the same deal under your plan) *or*, if you don't think that the new phone is worth buying, you have another year to pay off the remaining $200 from your contract and can then decide if you would like to upgrade.

I think that the current system offers more choice.

Yep. Very well illustrated - the system in place now is better in some ways than the 1 year commitment, and not worse in any way.

And yet, the fact that the poster you are replying to prefers the 1 year option just shows that people are not rational. Sad.
 
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