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Contract and Subsidy Issues for iPhone Users Looking to Upgrade to iPhone 3G S
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O2 are being consistent with everyone, they are insisting you pay up your remaining contract in full.
To my knowledge, AT&T allows persons spending at least $99 per line a month while also having good payment history to upgrade after 12 months. This is why on my family plan the primary line is eligible come July, while the rest of the lines even though they have iPhones on them, aren't eligible until January, or roughly 18 months into a 24 month contract.
The level of whining I see from the Apple community is astounding. It's like people have this deep sense of entitlement, and expect AT&T to create a welfare program for iPhone users. Businesses exist to make a profit, and AT&T is no different. If anything, AT&T deserves credit for signing on to the iPhone before anyone else, sight unseen, and initially allowing Apple to share in monthly revenue.
Even more shocking is that you have prominent bloggers, and so-called reporters attempting to throw AT&T under the bus, as if this isn't an industry wide operating practice. The fact is that carriers should just allow people to purchase handsets at their actual cost from the manufacturer; then you won't have entitled idiots believe that because they got four razrs for free, that's how much it cost said carrier to provide them to the customer.
The level of whining I see from the Apple community is astounding. It's like people have this deep sense of entitlement, and expect AT&T to create a welfare program for iPhone users. Businesses exist to make a profit, and AT&T is no different. If anything, AT&T deserves credit for signing on to the iPhone before anyone else, sight unseen, and initially allowing Apple to share in monthly revenue.
Even more shocking is that you have prominent bloggers, and so-called reporters attempting to throw AT&T under the bus, as if this isn't an industry wide operating practice. The fact is that carriers should just allow people to purchase handsets at their actual cost from the manufacturer; then you won't have entitled idiots believe that because they got four razrs for free, that's how much it cost said carrier to provide them to the customer.
boils down to loyalty - and Apple know's we all made the iPhone a success like the iPod before it, it's the networks with the 18 month contacts that are messing this up
£45 is what i pay - £45 is what my wife pay's every month maybe o2 should try and keep us ?
that Palm Pre is looking better right about now
Unfortunately, it looks like the Pre is going to be exclusive to O2.
Cost to make iPhone
What is AT&T subsidizing. From different quotes it costs $220 per unit. So if Apple is selling the units for 699 a unit wholesale (without a contract) than there is lots of money to be made. Apple must be making an ton from AT&T if they are charging the $699 per unit (which they are not).... The math doesn't add up here.
What is AT&T subsidizing. From different quotes it costs $220 per unit. So if Apple is selling the units for 699 a unit wholesale (without a contract) than there is lots of money to be made. Apple must be making an ton from AT&T if they are charging the $699 per unit (which they are not).... The math doesn't add up here.
Isn't the bigger problem that the product cycle and the contract cycle are out of sync?
Apple releases a new iPhone roughly once a year.
AT&T contracts are 2 years.
An iPhone user that can't get a subsidized iPhone3GS until March 2010- and waits it out- is now only 4 months away from getting the NEW June 2010 iPhone... or else they'll be upgrading to a EOL iPhone3GS in March 2010. The smart/thrifty user not wanting to pay a non-commitment premium for a 2-year-commitment phone is going to skip the iPhone3GS all together and get the next great iPhone.
The next iPhone (June 2010) will be subsidized for that user, but will lock them in for another 2 year contract... not allow them to upgrade again until 2012. This user is going to potentially end up skipping owning 2 iPhone versions.
I may be wrong here- but since the iPhone to iPhone 3G product update was subsidized and allowed mid-contract, Apple was able to report stellar sales of iPhone 3G. Now that this product transition is not subsidized, I'd fear that there'll be a lot less 3GS upgraders (including myself) and subsequently Apple will have far fewer sales. The anti-Apple press will see this as a loss of Apple "LoveMark" position and the stock will see an enviable sell-off.
Along these same lines... anyone that is upgrading now... you're locked in for the next two years, and if the ichat/front camera/oled/tv remote/coffeemaker deluxe iPhone is the next one in the product pipeline-- you'll be paying full price for it all over again because you'll only be half way through your new contract. You have to ask yourself if you're going to shoot a lot of movies or regularly go orienteering with your handy digital compass? For me, the new phone isn't that "insanely great" or earth shattering.
Again, I could be wrong, but feel the iPhone3GS offers little the current 3G can't do. I can confirm that even "Find my iPhone" works with the GM 3.0 firmware on a 3G iPhone... (and BTW it's live if you log into me.com and enable in Settings>Mail,contacts, Calendars>MobileMe on your iPhone).
Apple releases a new iPhone roughly once a year.
AT&T contracts are 2 years.
An iPhone user that can't get a subsidized iPhone3GS until March 2010- and waits it out- is now only 4 months away from getting the NEW June 2010 iPhone... or else they'll be upgrading to a EOL iPhone3GS in March 2010. The smart/thrifty user not wanting to pay a non-commitment premium for a 2-year-commitment phone is going to skip the iPhone3GS all together and get the next great iPhone.
The next iPhone (June 2010) will be subsidized for that user, but will lock them in for another 2 year contract... not allow them to upgrade again until 2012. This user is going to potentially end up skipping owning 2 iPhone versions.
I may be wrong here- but since the iPhone to iPhone 3G product update was subsidized and allowed mid-contract, Apple was able to report stellar sales of iPhone 3G. Now that this product transition is not subsidized, I'd fear that there'll be a lot less 3GS upgraders (including myself) and subsequently Apple will have far fewer sales. The anti-Apple press will see this as a loss of Apple "LoveMark" position and the stock will see an enviable sell-off.
Along these same lines... anyone that is upgrading now... you're locked in for the next two years, and if the ichat/front camera/oled/tv remote/coffeemaker deluxe iPhone is the next one in the product pipeline-- you'll be paying full price for it all over again because you'll only be half way through your new contract. You have to ask yourself if you're going to shoot a lot of movies or regularly go orienteering with your handy digital compass? For me, the new phone isn't that "insanely great" or earth shattering.
Again, I could be wrong, but feel the iPhone3GS offers little the current 3G can't do. I can confirm that even "Find my iPhone" works with the GM 3.0 firmware on a 3G iPhone... (and BTW it's live if you log into me.com and enable in Settings>Mail,contacts, Calendars>MobileMe on your iPhone).
Maybe if a enough people bitch...AT&T might lessen the cost for 3G owners.
I for one hope this doesn't happen because next years iPhone will probably be the most substantial upgrade since the original iPhone. That being said, I don't want to be tempted in getting a 3Gs at a low price..I enjoy the feeling of giving the finger to AT&T
I for one hope this doesn't happen because next years iPhone will probably be the most substantial upgrade since the original iPhone. That being said, I don't want to be tempted in getting a 3Gs at a low price..I enjoy the feeling of giving the finger to AT&T
Newsflash: ALL carriers suck. Bad. T-Mobile has been my favorite so far, but that isn't saying much.
And none are "cheap."
If the iPhone were a Verizon exclusive right now, everyone would be cursing Verizon and wondering why Apple hadn't partnered with AT&T. There are just no good carriers to be found.
LOL. RAZR. You'll be back. Probably within a month.
To my knowledge, AT&T allows persons spending at least $99 per line a month while also having good payment history to upgrade after 12 months. This is why on my family plan the primary line is eligible come July, while the rest of the lines even though they have iPhones on them, aren't eligible until January, or roughly 18 months into a 24 month contract.
The level of whining I see from the Apple community is astounding. It's like people have this deep sense of entitlement, and expect AT&T to create a welfare program for iPhone users. Businesses exist to make a profit, and AT&T is no different. If anything, AT&T deserves credit for signing on to the iPhone before anyone else, sight unseen, and initially allowing Apple to share in monthly revenue.
Even more shocking is that you have prominent bloggers, and so-called reporters attempting to throw AT&T under the bus, as if this isn't an industry wide operating practice. The fact is that carriers should just allow people to purchase handsets at their actual cost from the manufacturer; then you won't have entitled idiots believe that because they got four razrs for free, that's how much it cost said carrier to provide them to the customer.
Oh please stop living in AT&T's butt.
Why can't AT&T can't have MMS ready for launch?
AT&T can't have tethering at launch?
Why does AT&T block Slingbox?
AT&T sucks, we would all switch if there was a better option.
How about AT&T cryptic and confusing upgrade plans that are never the same?
Seriously, AT&T!!
I truly hope that someone from AT&T will read these forums because, even the 3rd time around, they still can't get it right!
First, it's the lack of MMS
Then, tethering
NOW, current iPhone 3G owners have to pay $699 for the 32gig on the day of the release!
AT&T, once you lose exclusivity of the iPhone I predict at least half will jump ship. You will bleed subscribers! Doesn't this bother anyone at AT&T?!?! I just don't get it...
Please, figure something out by June 19th to ease the pain of paying 700 bones for a phone. Thank you!
I truly hope that someone from AT&T will read these forums because, even the 3rd time around, they still can't get it right!
First, it's the lack of MMS
Then, tethering
NOW, current iPhone 3G owners have to pay $699 for the 32gig on the day of the release!
AT&T, once you lose exclusivity of the iPhone I predict at least half will jump ship. You will bleed subscribers! Doesn't this bother anyone at AT&T?!?! I just don't get it...
Please, figure something out by June 19th to ease the pain of paying 700 bones for a phone.
Thank you!
So...Apple should only release a new iPhone every 2 years?
Or AT&T should reduce their contract to 1 year and charge you a lot more $$$ up front due to the shorter subsidization period?
Which is your proposed solution?
We don't have to upgrade our phones every year, people. Like you said, the 3GS isn't a huge enough update to be overly compelling for 3G owners.
Me, I'm just happy I skipped the 3G and stuck with my original iPhone. Sure, it's been 2 years of EDGE misery, but now it's payoff time!
No one is shocked by this and i understand that all US carriers do this. BUT, come on AT&T knew when the release date of 3G S was going to be. And I'm sure they know that many current iPhone users will upgrade. Since the 3G came out July 11th last year and they knew of this year's release date why wouldn't they make some kind of exception?
I'm sorry, man, but AT&T has F'ed this whole iPhone process since the original release.
Untrue. I bought two original iPhones on launch day (6/24/07) and two 3G's (subsidized) on launch day (7/11/08), and am told by AT&T that I have to pay the $499 to upgrade to the 32GB one.
Solution for AT&T
Now, let me preface this with I'm not the least bit interested in the new 3GS and I understand the rules behind subsidies. Secondly, I personally think this is a terrible idea but just throwing it out there...
Why can't AT&T just let all these existing 3G owners who absolutely MUST have the latest shiny Apple widget get the subsidized price now, but add an additional two years to the end of their eligibility date. Eg: if your eligibility date is 12/20/2009, you'd sign a new 2 year contract now, get the 3GS at the discounted price but your contract would extend to 12/20/2011. Also, the early termination fees for the new contract would be added on to whatever your existing pro-rated early termination fee is. This would let all the whiners get what they want now instead of waiting until their eligibility date. AT&T would still lock them into the same length of time as they would if the person waited.
Why I think this is a bad idea, is because these people will end up locking themselves into AT&T for a long time every year just to get the new hotness. It's akin to drowning in credit card debt.
EDIT: Perhaps AT&T could let you do this only once every 4 years or something...
PS: There sure are a lot of whiners with an unexplainable sense of entitlement on MacRumors.
Now, let me preface this with I'm not the least bit interested in the new 3GS and I understand the rules behind subsidies. Secondly, I personally think this is a terrible idea but just throwing it out there...
Why can't AT&T just let all these existing 3G owners who absolutely MUST have the latest shiny Apple widget get the subsidized price now, but add an additional two years to the end of their eligibility date. Eg: if your eligibility date is 12/20/2009, you'd sign a new 2 year contract now, get the 3GS at the discounted price but your contract would extend to 12/20/2011. Also, the early termination fees for the new contract would be added on to whatever your existing pro-rated early termination fee is. This would let all the whiners get what they want now instead of waiting until their eligibility date. AT&T would still lock them into the same length of time as they would if the person waited.
Why I think this is a bad idea, is because these people will end up locking themselves into AT&T for a long time every year just to get the new hotness. It's akin to drowning in credit card debt.
EDIT: Perhaps AT&T could let you do this only once every 4 years or something...
PS: There sure are a lot of whiners with an unexplainable sense of entitlement on MacRumors.
im not affected by the contract issue, im on an original 4gig iPhone that i bought in Sept 2007, after they dropped the prices and discontinued them.
but i am seeing a possible fee on my ATT account that ive not read anyone else mention.
i can get the reg price of 199/299, but there is a onetime $18 activation fee, and also a onetime $18 Upgrade fee.
what ive not been able to determine is what is that $18 upgrade fee all about?
again, my account says im upgrade qualified, and i can get the normal price point.
has anyone else seen this $18 upgrade fee when checking their qualification on the ATT website?
but i am seeing a possible fee on my ATT account that ive not read anyone else mention.
i can get the reg price of 199/299, but there is a onetime $18 activation fee, and also a onetime $18 Upgrade fee.
what ive not been able to determine is what is that $18 upgrade fee all about?
again, my account says im upgrade qualified, and i can get the normal price point.
has anyone else seen this $18 upgrade fee when checking their qualification on the ATT website?
I understand the whole subsidized two year contract deal and have no issue with it. What I find unfair and have issues with is the different dates that people are being told they can upgrade. If two people bought the iPhone 3G on the release date, they should both be eligible for upgrade at the same time. This is not what is happening though. Some people are being told they can upgrade in July, while others are being told they can't upgrade until March 2010. This is where all the issues are for me. The price you pay per month should not matter when you are only supposed to get a subsidized contract every two years. A 2 year contract is a 2 year contract.
On top of that, if I want to spend the extra $200 for the 3GS, why should I still have to sign a new 2 year deal? I am getting no breaks from ATT so why should I agree to be with them any longer than my current contract states just because I want to use a new phone?
Eating $400 and keeping me as a customer through 2011 MAKES them money. Instead they will be losing me as a customer in 2010. Let's see $200 per month for 12 months is $2,400, subtract the $400 iPhone cost and that is $2,000 they are LOSING. I see no "loss" on their side of the board.
On top of that, if I want to spend the extra $200 for the 3GS, why should I still have to sign a new 2 year deal? I am getting no breaks from ATT so why should I agree to be with them any longer than my current contract states just because I want to use a new phone?
Eating $400 and keeping me as a customer through 2011 MAKES them money. Instead they will be losing me as a customer in 2010. Let's see $200 per month for 12 months is $2,400, subtract the $400 iPhone cost and that is $2,000 they are LOSING. I see no "loss" on their side of the board.
Then go get the palm pre
Alright go get your palm pre then with your measly 8 gb of ram, crappy keyboard, all of 18 applications and an OS that does not work for 200 dollars.
boils down to loyalty - and Apple know's we all made the iPhone a success like the iPod before it, it's the networks with the 18 month contacts that are messing this up
£45 is what i pay - £45 is what my wife pay's every month maybe o2 should try and keep us ?
that Palm Pre is looking better right about now
Alright go get your palm pre then with your measly 8 gb of ram, crappy keyboard, all of 18 applications and an OS that does not work for 200 dollars.
Why is everyone whining?
I don't have a problem only upgrading every 2 years. Yes there is a hardware upgrade every year, but but with the last 2 there haven't been anything so huge that I feel like I'm carrying around an ancient piece of technology. I still get the OS update, so I don't have much to complain about. I don't blame AT&T or Apple for not wanting to subsidize a device as expensive as the iPhone every year for whoever thinks they deserve it. They would never recoup thier losses on it. We simply have to play by the rules, what's so hard to understand about that.
My biggest complaint is the carrier exclusivity. I am on AT&T and aside from Verizon it has the best coverage in my area. I was on Verizon, you want to talk about a company that charges too much for service look there. T-Mobile service is terrible where I live and don't get me started about Sprint. I just wish that the iPhone was on more than one carrier to give AT&T a little competition with it. There is no way that Apple will ever make a CDMA version of the iPhone. The world wide market simply isn't there, but maybe once 4G networks start to take hold we could see a shift in iPhone/carrier compatibility, at least in the US.
It's not the end of the world if I don't get a 3GS, in 12 months something better will come along.
I don't have a problem only upgrading every 2 years. Yes there is a hardware upgrade every year, but but with the last 2 there haven't been anything so huge that I feel like I'm carrying around an ancient piece of technology. I still get the OS update, so I don't have much to complain about. I don't blame AT&T or Apple for not wanting to subsidize a device as expensive as the iPhone every year for whoever thinks they deserve it. They would never recoup thier losses on it. We simply have to play by the rules, what's so hard to understand about that.
My biggest complaint is the carrier exclusivity. I am on AT&T and aside from Verizon it has the best coverage in my area. I was on Verizon, you want to talk about a company that charges too much for service look there. T-Mobile service is terrible where I live and don't get me started about Sprint. I just wish that the iPhone was on more than one carrier to give AT&T a little competition with it. There is no way that Apple will ever make a CDMA version of the iPhone. The world wide market simply isn't there, but maybe once 4G networks start to take hold we could see a shift in iPhone/carrier compatibility, at least in the US.
It's not the end of the world if I don't get a 3GS, in 12 months something better will come along.
Because AT&T has to pay Apple that subsidy up front. So they're laying out a fresh pile of cash halfway into your contract for the promise (not guaranteed) of a longer-term payback (which they may have gotten from you anyway once your previous contract expires per its original term).
Apparently AT&T does not see the value in such a gamble.
I don't know where they come up with the idea that if you purchased the original iPhone before the iPhone 3G you are eligible for upgrade after only one year of a 3G contract. I bought the original iPhone on launch day and then the 3G on launch day and my ATT account clearly says that I may be eligible for special pricing on 12/12/2009. I would gladly make a special road trip to the ATT that says I can upgrade after just one year. Address & phone # please.