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Hey there's an interesting factoid I seem to now remember myself as well. And that stuff (in the lightest weight??) is about the consistency of contact cleaner. It smells weird tho. So yeah, how about that stuff then?


nanofrog said:
Otherwise, something else would already exist, or at least being worked on (coolant). It's not like the thermal issues with semiconductors is new or anything...

No, I highly disagree. :D The entire liquid cooling "movement" was born out of complete desperation and flew on the wings of corporate neglect. Dell, and Apple and such only added water-cooling as a "give'em what they want" afterthought. If it was properly engineered the silicon itself would have cooling channels built into the design and not a lame-ass HIS just capped on top with a piece of inefficient thermal tape actually making the contact. Socket and package design would at least include some kind of component-level emersion and an exchange flow apparatus - or something. Even I, way back in the EARLY 80's, had the imagination to envision that everything might be surface mounted on multi-layer flex-boards (FPC) (kinda like some parts of a 35mm digital camera are) and placed in a tube for liquid emersion and flow. So, no, I have to think that we're using water and thick copper block sitting on top of the HIS because the people thinking this stuff up are, well, I'll just say "untrained" to be nice about it. ;)

As for the copper foil I guess something like this would last at least ten years with something like contact cleaner flowing over it steadily 24/7.

Heavy_Copper_Foil_sm.jpg

I guess water without a softening agent would eat through it sooner though. Three to five years maybe?


.
 
Hey there's an interesting factoid I seem to now remember myself as well. And that stuff (in the lightest weight??) is about the consistency of contact cleaner. It smells weird tho. So yeah, how about that stuff then?
Taking a look at it, it appears the FC-40 would be a nice choice for a single phase system, though should be sealed (Vapor Pressure = 3.0 mmHg @ 25C). ;)

Product Data Sheet
MSDS

It's not environmentally friendly, and I recall on the expensive side. :(

I've been looking into it for other possiblilties as well, and recall a military spec MIL-PRF-87252C. It contains 12 products, but I'm not willing to spend $30 for a copy. Yes, I'm being cheap. :p Fortunately, I did run across one of them, XCELTHERM 500M.

Product Data Sheet
MSDS

It looks good, and both it and the Flourinert are less viscous than Silicon Oil. Flourinert is 1.8 centistokes @ 25C, while the XCELTHERM 500M is a bit higher. (5 cSt @ 40C, and looks to be ~2.2 - 2.4 cSt in the upper 60's/low 70's C range). Chart. Not quite "contact lens cleaner", but not too bad. It actually can get a lower viscosity than water, but not until the temps are above expected (0.318cSt @ 260C :eek: HOT). Thermal conductivity remains stable across the entire temp range (0.1412 W/m-K @ -62.2C to 0.1232 W/m-K @ 260C).

It's rated for a closed loop system, so should work in existing liquid cooling components, non corrosive (big plus), and is environmentally friendly. I've no idea of cost, but an email should take care of that. ;) (sizes in 1 Qt & larger)

No, I highly disagree. :D The entire liquid cooling "movement" was born out of complete desperation and flew on the wings of corporate neglect. Dell, and Apple and such only added water-cooling as a "give'em what they want" afterthought.
It's older than that to me. I was thinking in terms of military projects, primarily aviationics cooling. Boeing used an oil cooling system back in the B1B bomber (I'm not sure of the details on this one), and it's still being done. Lockheed Martin is using such systems as the F-35/JSF (closed loop, not just oil in a passive box). The first copy of the military spec above (rev. A) was published in 1993 IIRC.

Then there's various bits of research. Not just coolants though, as my familiarity gets into material manipulation (optical gates). IBM was doing research on this in the '80s that I'm aware of (one of my professors was leading a project they funded).

If it was properly engineered the silicon itself would have cooling channels built into the design and not a lame-ass HIS just capped on top with a piece of inefficient thermal tape actually making the contact. Socket and package design would at least include some kind of component-level emersion and an exchange flow apparatus - or something.
As a guess, the reasoning was simple. Cost. They had to compromise somewhere, and liquid was, and still is, a more expensive proposition. It would be possible, but it would mean some sort of "liquid block" package. Then add in the standardization issues (packaging, not the die), it would have been a mess. As they could get away with the direction used, it wasn't considered critical IMO. Necessity may change this, but I'd think other alternatives would be approached first, if at all possible.

So, no, I have to think that we're using water and thick copper block sitting on top of the HIS because the people thinking this stuff up are, well, I'll just say "untrained" to be nice about it. ;)
:eek: :p

As mentioned, I think cost is the major reason (technical difficulties do exist, but given enough $$$, they could be overcome). But the idea of "untrained" isn't entirely accurate, but not that far off either. In my case, I was aware of the heat issues (interning & many conversations with professors), but I've never spent much time doing cooling systems to that extent. It's always been via experience on the "back end", as a single Thermodynamics course only gets you so far... :p And it may not even be a required course. It was a choice when I went through. I opted to take it instead of Dynamics, as it seemed more applicable to me. But even then, I've had to learn by doing.

As for the copper foil I guess something like this would last at least ten years with something like contact cleaner flowing over it steadily 24/7.

I guess water without a softening agent would eat through it sooner though. Three to five years maybe?
It would have a lifespan. An inhibitor is added to ethylene glycol to help, but it eventually can eat it's way through.

As I think about it, such a thin Cu surface would also be rather delicate to deformation, rendering it's advantage moot, if not detrimental. (Too much TIM to fill in the dents (past scratches), and the chip's cooling isn't as efficient as the thicker blocks on the market). Maybe to the point of DOA. 3rd party installation would be at the users peril (voided warranty), and system vendors wouldn't want to deal with it due to defect rates (real or imagined). :(

Adding some nickel to the mix would help, but I'm not sure how thin it could go without deforming under installation & mounting bracket forces. :confused: That's why precision die cast might be better (than stamp forged, assuming that was what you were thinking), as you can add material to strategic locations to counteract these issues. But I'm still not certian as to the plausible thickness on the mounting surface. :(
 
Taking a look at it, it appears the FC-40 would be a nice choice for a single phase system, though should be sealed (Vapor Pressure = 3.0 mmHg @ 25C). ;)

Product Data Sheet
MSDS

It's not environmentally friendly, and I recall on the expensive side. :(

I've been looking into it for other possiblilties as well, and recall a military spec MIL-PRF-87252C. It contains 12 products, but I'm not willing to spend $30 for a copy. Yes, I'm being cheap. :p Fortunately, I did run across one of them, XCELTHERM 500M.

Product Data Sheet
MSDS

It looks good, and both it and the Flourinert are less viscous than Silicon Oil. Flourinert is 1.8 centistokes @ 25C, while the XCELTHERM 500M is a bit higher. (5 cSt @ 40C, and looks to be ~2.2 - 2.4 cSt in the upper 60's/low 70's C range). Chart. Not quite "contact lens cleaner", but not too bad. It actually can get a lower viscosity than water, but not until the temps are above expected (0.318cSt @ 260C :eek: HOT). Thermal conductivity remains stable across the entire temp range (0.1412 W/m-K @ -62.2C to 0.1232 W/m-K @ 260C).

It's rated for a closed loop system, so should work in existing liquid cooling components, non corrosive (big plus), and is environmentally friendly. I've no idea of cost, but an email should take care of that. ;) (sizes in 1 Qt & larger)


It's older than that to me. I was thinking in terms of military projects, primarily aviationics cooling. Boeing used an oil cooling system back in the B1B bomber (I'm not sure of the details on this one), and it's still being done. Lockheed Martin is using such systems as the F-35/JSF (closed loop, not just oil in a passive box). The first copy of the military spec above (rev. A) was published in 1993 IIRC.

I think you just proved my point for me. Here's all this tech already being employed and PC geeks are running around dipping their PC's in salad oil for crying out loud. :p


Then there's various bits of research. Not just coolants though, as my familiarity gets into material manipulation (optical gates). IBM was doing research on this in the '80s that I'm aware of (one of my professors was leading a project they funded).


As a guess, the reasoning was simple. Cost. They had to compromise somewhere, and liquid was, and still is, a more expensive proposition. It would be possible, but it would mean some sort of "liquid block" package. Then add in the standardization issues (packaging, not the die), it would have been a mess. As they could get away with the direction used, it wasn't considered critical IMO. Necessity may change this, but I'd think other alternatives would be approached first, if at all possible.

Nah, floppy media is probably more complex. It looks like a good excuse in writing though. :D




It would have a lifespan. An inhibitor is added to ethylene glycol to help, but it eventually can eat it's way through.

As I think about it, such a thin Cu surface would also be rather delicate to deformation, rendering it's advantage moot, if not detrimental. (Too much TIM to fill in the dents (past scratches), and the chip's cooling isn't as efficient as the thicker blocks on the market). Maybe to the point of DOA. 3rd party installation would be at the users peril (voided warranty), and system vendors wouldn't want to deal with it due to defect rates (real or imagined). :(

Adding some nickel to the mix would help, but I'm not sure how thin it could go without deforming under installation & mounting bracket forces. :confused: That's why precision die cast might be better (than stamp forged, assuming that was what you were thinking), as you can add material to strategic locations to counteract these issues. But I'm still not certian as to the plausible thickness on the mounting surface. :(

Yeah, just size and mounting frame would cure most of that. Even something as huge and deformable as window screening gets a massive boost in structural form integrity with the addition of a frame. :D Also since they are so thin and cheep just make them as disposable as thermal paste is now. Wax-on, wax-off. ;) Better for marketing too. ;) Also like you say, puer 99.99% copper may not be the best material so whatever works. At that mill (or even thinner) I guess titanium would be just as good maybe? Whatever... the idea is to get as much of the heat away from the chip die as fast as possible. An HIS and a hugh copper block is a bit retarded for this purpose when you think about it. :p I wanna transfer ALL of the heat into the moving liquid in a matter of milliseconds and then exchange that off however.

Good work on finding currently employed system and materials BTW! :)
 
I think you just proved my point for me. Here's all this tech already being employed and PC geeks are running around dipping their PC's in salad oil for crying out loud. :p
Mine was the problem's been around awhile, and products are available (YMMV of course). :p

Nah, floppy media is probably more complex. It looks like a good excuse in writing though. :D
The simplest thing I can think of that might fit what you describe would be this, though not necessarily made of aluminum. Cu versions exist as well. :D I've not looked much at the details as to how much heat they can move, but the idea might do. :) They should be cheap enough to satisfy the bean counters as well. ;)

Yeah, just size and mounting frame would cure most of that. Even something as huge and deformable as window screening gets a massive boost in structural form integrity with the addition of a frame. :D Also since they are so thin and cheep just make them as disposable as thermal paste is now. Wax-on, wax-off. ;) Better for marketing too. ;) Also like you say, puer 99.99% copper may not be the best material so whatever works. At that mill (or even thinner) I guess titanium would be just as good maybe? Whatever... the idea is to get as much of the heat away from the chip die as fast as possible. An HIS and a hugh copper block is a bit retarded for this purpose when you think about it. :p I wanna transfer ALL of the heat into the moving liquid in a matter of milliseconds and then exchange that off however.

Good work on finding currently employed system and materials BTW! :)
As it happens, the example listed above should solve the structural issue when mounted. :D The end result may not look so pretty (on the least expensive side), but if it works, who cares. :p It wouldn't be too hard to dress it up in a nice appearance either. ;)
 
I wanna transfer ALL of the heat into the moving liquid in a matter of milliseconds and then exchange that off however.

Well, to transfer the heat off the processor nearly instantly (and get the temp way below freezing point, condensation :eek:) the coice would be thermo electric cooling (Peltier) IMO. 130W pieces consume ~14 to 15 Ampere at ~15.4V.
The problem is then to cool down the hot plate side of the TEC element, best solution there would be an vapochilled coolant cycle. As for thermal compound it might be good to use liquid metal paste. However, the use of TEC elements and liquid metal can be risky but thinking of the last posts here, should be ok. :D *JK*


Another thing...
Did someone tried a Xeon W3570 (4x3.2GHz) with the MP 2009? I recall the thread with the dual CPU 3.2GHz upgrade but didn´t see a single CPU MP upgraded to this CPU.
 
The Cray 2's were completely emersed in the Flourinert, it wasn't just on little heat syncs clipped on like today's PC's. To change a board that had a problem you had to completely drain the fluid from the machine then refill the machine. While it was active, you could see the fluid swirling around inside it since the top part was all clear.

cray2.jpg


The cooling unit was seperated and had a little "waterfall" that the fluid was pumped over. (the triangle thing on the right)
 
The Cray 2's were completely emersed in the Flourinert, it wasn't just on little heat syncs clipped on like today's PC's. To change a board that had a problem you had to completely drain the fluid from the machine then refill the machine. While it was active, you could see the fluid swirling around inside it since the top part was all clear.

The cooling unit was seperated and had a little "waterfall" that the fluid was pumped over. (the triangle thing on the right)

Now that is a proper computer.
 
Well, to transfer the heat off the processor nearly instantly (and get the temp way below freezing point, condensation :eek:) the coice would be thermo electric cooling (Peltier) IMO. 130W pieces consume ~14 to 15 Ampere at ~15.4V.
The problem is then to cool down the hot plate side of the TEC element, best solution there would be an vapochilled coolant cycle. As for thermal compound it might be good to use liquid metal paste. However, the use of TEC elements and liquid metal can be risky but thinking of the last posts here, should be ok. :D *JK*

Hehehe. :D


But no, it doesn't need to be sub-zero nor is that even desirable for the very reason you just mentioned. 17c ~ 20c would be fine. When I said "ALL the heat" I didn't actually mean to imply I was trying for absolute zero. :D I meant all the excess heat over and above something like 20c ~ 25c.




BTW, For all you with Cray2 Envy your Mac Pros are faster! A new 2009 MP is about 40 times faster than the fastest Cray 2! :D

.
 
Well, to transfer the heat off the processor nearly instantly (and get the temp way below freezing point, condensation :eek:) the coice would be thermo electric cooling (Peltier) IMO. 130W pieces consume ~14 to 15 Ampere at ~15.4V.
The problem is then to cool down the hot plate side of the TEC element, best solution there would be an vapochilled coolant cycle. As for thermal compound it might be good to use liquid metal paste. However, the use of TEC elements and liquid metal can be risky but thinking of the last posts here, should be ok. :D *JK*
Peltier (TEC) isn't that efficient though, as now you have to remove even more heat. :(

Another thing...
Did someone tried a Xeon W3570 (4x3.2GHz) with the MP 2009? I recall the thread with the dual CPU 3.2GHz upgrade but didn´t see a single CPU MP upgraded to this CPU.
Yes, an Octad (2.26GHz refurb) was upgraded by Tutor. ;)

To change a board that had a problem you had to completely drain the fluid from the machine then refill the machine. While it was active, you could see the fluid swirling around inside it since the top part was all clear.
That does seem to be a downside to immersion. ;) Rather messy. :eek: :p

Perhaps time as well, assuming the competition were proper servers/workstations (easy access & removal) as the Cray 2 looks to hold quite a bit of fluid to drain first. :D
 
Hehehe. :D


But no, it doesn't need to be sub-zero nor is that even desirable for the very reason you just mentioned. 17c ~ 20c would be fine. When I said "ALL the heat" I didn't actually mean to imply I was trying for absolute zero. :D I meant all the excess heat over and above something like 20c ~ 25c.

25°C is nice!!! but whats wrong with it getting up to say 40°C or something close to that?? it could warm my house in winter! :) ;)
 
25°C is nice!!! but whats wrong with it getting up to say 40°C or something close to that?? it could warm my house in winter! :) ;)
Keep them at ~55C max (safe to touch temp; no burns) at full load, and you would be fine. :D Would be conducive to a nice lifespan anyway. ;)
 
Keep them at ~55C max (safe to touch temp; no burns) at full load, and you would be fine. :D Would be conducive to a nice lifespan anyway. ;)

excellent, just so happens that my hack runs at ~50°C max! seems i know more then i know :confused: :rolleyes:

my CoreDuo MBP on the other hand.... is currently idling at 75°C..
 
:cool:

What CPU & cooler?

E4600 (2.4ghz stock) OC'd to 3GHZ, im using some crappy $15 ebay cooler. couldnt find it if i tried. great price/performance ratio though :p


Idle?!? Ouch!

Have you checked the paste (TIM)?
It might have too much on it, as that seems too hot to me, even for a laptop.

it is a CoreDuo, those things were PATHETIC. i have not checked the paste, i was never game because its my main laptop and i dont want to kill my baby, however it is 3 years old and verrrrry long in the tooth. i might just do that, provided that the CPU isnt soldered onto the board (which i thought apple did??), i hope someone can correct me!!
 
E4600 (2.4ghz stock) OC'd to 3GHZ, im using some crappy $15 ebay cooler. couldnt find it if i tried. great price/performance ratio though :p
C2D desktop parts ran fairly cool. Far cooler than the Nehalems. ;) And that's not much of an OC, so it shouldn't be stressed. :)

it is a CoreDuo, those things were PATHETIC. i have not checked the paste, i was never game because its my main laptop and i dont want to kill my baby, however it is 3 years old and verrrrry long in the tooth. i might just do that, provided that the CPU isnt soldered onto the board (which i thought apple did??), i hope someone can correct me!!
The coolers in laptops are a major compromise due to the physical constraints. :rolleyes: :( So they always run warmer. Given it's age, the paste may have dried out, and isn't working properly, so re-pasting it would be a good idea, and it's inexpensive. So as it's a primary machine, it's an EXTREMELY good idea IMO. It's not that hard either :D, and you don't need to worry about the chip being soldered to the board. You don't take it off. Only the cooler. Clean both surfaces well with rubbing alcohol (91% isopropyl works really well), spread on a thin, even coat, and replace the heatsink. Done. :) So no need to panic about doing this. ;)

iFixit would have a guide. Select the correct system, and select the right one in the Free Fixit Guide section. (Just left of center of the page).
 
C2D desktop parts ran fairly cool. Far cooler than the Nehalems. ;) And that's not much of an OC, so it shouldn't be stressed. :)

yes im fairly comfortable with where it is currently, 50°C under load is fine! it used to be 80°C with the stock cooler, had to get rid of that. i reapplied the paste and everything so im not unfamiliar with the process.


The coolers in laptops are a major compromise due to the physical constraints. :rolleyes: :( So they always run warmer. Given it's age, the paste may have dried out, and isn't working properly, so re-pasting it would be a good idea, and it's inexpensive. So as it's a primary machine, it's an EXTREMELY good idea IMO. It's not that hard either :D, and you don't need to worry about the chip being soldered to the board. You don't take it off. Only the cooler. Clean both surfaces well with rubbing alcohol (91% isopropyl works really well), spread on a thin, even coat, and replace the heatsink. Done. :) So no need to panic about doing this. ;)

iFixit would have a guide. Select the correct system, and select the right one in the Free Fixit Guide section. (Just left of center of the page).

oh of course!! how silly of me.. for some reason i thought i had to take out the CPU, its been a long day haha. ignore that :p i will definetely purchase some thermal paste and give it a re-apply. i didnt realise it was running so hot until today, it used to be around maybe 60°C, hopefully i can bring it down to something very nice :)

oh i should add that i have already opened her up before, had to replace the HD :rolleyes:

thanks!
 
yes im fairly comfortable with where it is currently, 50°C under load is fine! it used to be 80°C with the stock cooler, had to get rid of that. i reapplied the paste and everything so im not unfamiliar with the process.
:cool: Nice drop in temp. :) BTW, I figured you were a bit nervous about performing it on a laptop, as they're harder to get into. ;)

oh of course!! how silly of me.. for some reason i thought i had to take out the CPU, its been a long day haha. ignore that :p i will definetely purchase some thermal paste and give it a re-apply. i didnt realise it was running so hot until today, it used to be around maybe 60°C, hopefully i can bring it down to something very nice :)
Definitely bad paste. :eek: ;) It happens, and 3yrs seems common to me.

oh i should add that i have already opened her up before, had to replace the HD :rolleyes:

thanks!
Cake Walk comes to mind.... :D :p
 
:cool: Nice drop in temp. :) BTW, I figured you were a bit nervous about performing it on a laptop, as they're harder to get into. ;)

yea those tighter places.. ill tell ya... :D


Definitely bad paste. :eek: ;) It happens, and 3yrs seems common to me.

i wasnt aware that thermal paste could deteriorate completely, its surprised we arent warned more!! think of the money they could be making off a "3 year thermal paste and general service".. hmmmm :rolleyes:

its a good thing someone bought it up (i dont even remember).

Cake Walk comes to mind.... :D :p

i think im a few generations late to understand what you mean ;) :eek:
 
yea those tighter places.. ill tell ya... :D
For me, the hardest things to deal with, are the small flex PCB connectors used for the keyboards and whatnot, as they can break the lock tabs if I'm not careful. :rolleyes: :(

i wasnt aware that thermal paste could deteriorate completely, its surprised we arent warned more!! think of the money they could be making off a "3 year thermal paste and general service".. hmmmm :rolleyes:

its a good thing someone bought it up (i dont even remember).
It dries out over time. :eek: ;) It gets baked afterall... :p

As most laptops aren't that useful by three years or so, maybe they figured they didn't need to bother? Or worse, use it as a means of "forced replacement", as the old one went DOA due to cooking itself. :eek: :D

i think im a few generations late to understand what you mean ;) :eek:
Beyond easy. ;) Maybe it's just used in the US, as I've no idea of it's origination. :confused:
 
For me, the hardest things to deal with, are the small flex PCB connectors used for the keyboards and whatnot, as they can break the lock tabs if I'm not careful. :rolleyes: :(

YES!! totally agree, those things are a royal pain in the butt to take off, they need so much care. taking off the CPU fan/heatsync is a 50/50 for me, normally because of my short attention span and need to get it done NOW. :p


It dries out over time. :eek: ;) It gets baked afterall... :p

great point :rolleyes:

As most laptops aren't that useful by three years or so, maybe they figured they didn't need to bother? Or worse, use it as a means of "forced replacement", as the old one went DOA due to cooking itself. :eek: :D

also a good point :p i plan on having this laptop for another 5 years! my dad has his iBook, which is well over 5 years old now (maybe 6 or 7 even, cant remember). my MBP is VERY slow, but i have my hackintosh for number crunching - i just put up with it. my only grip really is the limited RAM of 2GB.

but yea i know what you mean by "forced replacement".... *sigh*


Beyond easy. ;) Maybe it's just used in the US, as I've no idea of it's origination. :confused:

i have no idea lol, wiki says...

Code:
The "Cake Walk" was developed from a "Prize Walk" done in the days of slavery, generally at get-togethers on plantations in the [B]Southern United States[/B].

so maybe thats why i dont get it, being here in Australia..

p.s. emoticon usage seems to have tripled since the beginning of the page :p
 
Hehehe. :D


But no, it doesn't need to be sub-zero nor is that even desirable for the very reason you just mentioned. 17c ~ 20c would be fine. When I said "ALL the heat" I didn't actually mean to imply I was trying for absolute zero. :D I meant all the excess heat over and above something like 20c ~ 25c.
...
BTW, For all you with Cray2 Envy your Mac Pros are faster! A new 2009 MP is about 40 times faster than the fastest Cray 2! :D

.

Hey, don´t say that. Cray rules. :)
Hm, Cray CX1 Tesla. When can we get a Mac Pro Tesla? :D

Ah well, you can use a TEC also for getting the ambient temp and keep the CPU there but that basically can be achieved by using usual water-cooling and big radiator, too. And in theory it should be possible with usual HSF + liquid metal paste also.


Peltier (TEC) isn't that efficient though, as now you have to remove even more heat. :(
...
Yes, an Octad (2.26GHz refurb) was upgraded by Tutor. ;)

Well it´s efficient enough to transport the heat off the CPU nearly instantly, what you do with the other side is another question. :D

Yeah, I meant this upgrade by Tutor. But has someone done this to an entry-level MP quad?

Back to the price thing. When you buy a Mac Pro, it's a bit like
the OLPC "Give One, Get One" scheme. You're really buying two
Mac Pros. One for yourself and one for the owner of a leaking
Power Mac G5. That's why it's so expensive ;)

Now that´s a good deal, IF you also have an leaking G5, then you get a second MP. :D


i still dont know what it is, i dont think i want to know haha! anyway, enough of this OTness!

the mac pro is over-priced. teehee :cool:

Oh really? Hehe. Well as we can see in this thread and others, it depends on your point of view. If you use the machine for earning money, then maybe no. If you use it as an desktop PC replacement and don´t earn money by using it, then yes.

Thinking of the sometimes bad performance of Cider Games, you kinda need an MP for games.
Sure sure, the MP isn´t for games...That´s maybe true, but then no Mac is either. And I recall a certain Apple keynote with someone...who was it again...Ah yes! John Carmack? Right?! What does he do? Programming...games? And then there was EA Games. But they are just too lazy to port games to OpenGL, so Cider is fine?
Oh and there was another guy, I think he´s called Steve Jobs and uh...said sth about games on Macs? :D *JK around*

I know I know, that id Software and EA thing was in the end only a joke and now they do iPhone games insteand of Mac optimized games. Though, the iPhone is running Mac OS also.

Well, I guess many compaints about the MP comes from people which like to play games, too. They want Mac OS for the usual things you do all day but also games and for that, no MP is a good deal. But that was and is already discussed over and over anyway.

Well, still no one did explain why Apple uses $300 CPUs, $60 graphics card and optional WiFi card in a $2500/3300 machine and I guess we will never get an answer. So, let´s stay OT. ;)
 
woohoo, thread fork.

since we're still speaking some cray, I had this in the picture thread, but this was me and a cray 2 (and a x/mp in the background) that I worked on "back in the day".

mecray2small.jpg


There's one or two PC companies that make fully emersed case systems, and I think Armari's even runs with flourinert:

http://www.armari.co.uk/xcp-gallery.asp

Though it was only prototype as the coolant itself made the machine too expensive (!!)

Hardcore computing has a machine that is retail available that is fully immersed:
http://www.hardcorecomputer.com/

The thermal properties of the cheaper mineral oil coolant in Hardcore's must be waaay lower though because they do immersion AND convective, which seems odd. "Core Coolant is a mineral-oil-like substance that's approximately 750 times denser than air and can store twice as much heat per unit of mass"

"On Reactor, the thermal interface between the CPU and its heat sink is made of indium, which is simple to install and transfers heat extremely well"

Anyonne know the thermal properties of Indium vs copper? I don't have the time to sort past the copper-indium-gallium stuff to dig it out.
 
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