Cooling Technologies & Ideas (Thread Split)

[Tesselator]

I'd be interested in seeing how they made the blocks. I'm wondering
if they went to the extent of sputtering the layers together directly on
die (no TIM). And if so, how'd they manage it cost wise.

Dunno about cost. User cost is usually mostly about volume. If Intel or
IBM make a billion of them they'll be cheap. Die fabrication, engineering,
and etc. is probably relatively the same as every other chip in any similar
class. I'd be surprised if it were much more.

As far as where exactly the layers are it's hard to say from that animation
but I don't think the silicon surfaces are modified at all. I think it's in the
ceramic packaging (or instead thereof rather). I get that impression anyway.

I guess we could look it up. IBM Power6 Hydro Cluster cooling.

I found this:
"IBM Research's Water Cooled Chips: Scientists at IBM's Zurich Research
Lab are working on the future of water cooling, brining cold water to the
hottest part, directly on the chip itself, and then capturing the water at its
hottest and piping it off the chip for re-use."

Basically the same thing as the video tho.

There's a blue one too. http://www-03.ibm.com/press/nz/en/photos.wss?topic=1

I guess the pinkish salmon colored layer in this illustration is the silicon surface:

There's an image of a z10 mount there too​

Then again this http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=9031 makes it sound like it's
also integrated in the silicon itself maybe. "These water cooled layers were
produced with current manufacturing methods except for the tools needed to etch
and drill the interconnections."

With all those layers of holes (what were there, like, 6 or something?) I also
wonder about pressure and flow.

Many articles and press sheets are saying that this is just the first step as well: "This
chip level water cooling is the first step in major advances IBM researchers have
planned for direct in-chip water cooled systems.", "The next step for IBM is to
optimize cooling systems for smaller chips and more interconnects."

 

[DoFoT9]

Yeah, there are many many ways to configure or operate such a system. For multi-user in your office building example that's probably what you would wanna do.

yea im just trying to get an idea of what any cost benefits would be like in comparison to performance and upkeep.

Latency isn't that bad. It's still a switched fabric implementation (FC-SW), not hierarchal, like Ethernet. That helps reduce latency, and it's certainly faster than anything you've got now.

right i see, im new to a few of these protocols and methods so forgive me

The real question is, can you actually utilize it.

hmm not personally probably not. in a large corporation probably not haha. but im sure i could just fold on it or something

Virtual is the primary method intended, as that's what's done for Cloud Computing (cheap, and aimed at consumers, and businesses alike). It's not my favorite though, as I don't like the idea of not having "possession" of my data.

i can see the benefits, but im sort of struggling to see the performance issues. there is a big difference from my personal experience between real and virtual - i know that they have machines that would blow your mind.. im just wondering what the percentage of power lost would be.

You could remote into it, if it's setup as a powerful VPN server. But you'd have to own all the equipment, and need adequate bandwidth. As it's currently limited from anything close to getting a single access point even close to full utilization. Especially on the consumer end. The ISP infrastructure just isn't there yet.

too true! from my experience you need at least a 4MB/s connection to get an accurate representation the transitions of menus and applications. i guess thats a LONG way away.

inside the business though i can def see it happening.

Hells yeah!

What a waste!

i must agree with nano here Tess, sorry

 

[nanofrog]

Dunno about cost. User cost is usually mostly about volume. If Intel or
IBM make a billion of them they'll be cheap. Die fabrication, engineering,
and etc. is probably relatively the same as every other chip in any similar
class. I'd be surprised if it were much more.

As far as where exactly the layers are it's hard to say from that animation
but I don't think the silicon surfaces are modified at all. I think it's in the
ceramic packaging (or instead thereof rather). I get that impression anyway.

I guess we could look it up. IBM Power6 Hydro Cluster cooling.

I found this:
"IBM Research's Water Cooled Chips: Scientists at IBM's Zurich Research
Lab are working on the future of water cooling, brining cold water to the
hottest part, directly on the chip itself, and then capturing the water at its
hottest and piping it off the chip for re-use."

Basically the same thing as the video tho.

There's a blue one too. http://www-03.ibm.com/press/nz/en/photos.wss?topic=1

I guess the pinkish salmon colored layer in this illustration is the silicon surface:

There's an image of a z10 mount there too​

Then again this http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=9031 makes it sound like it's
also integrated in the silicon itself maybe. "These water cooled layers were
produced with current manufacturing methods except for the tools needed to etch
and drill the interconnections."

With all those layers of holes (what were there, like, 6 or something?) I also
wonder about pressure and flow.

Many articles and press sheets are saying that this is just the first step as well: "This
chip level water cooling is the first step in major advances IBM researchers have
planned for direct in-chip water cooled systems.", "The next step for IBM is to
optimize cooling systems for smaller chips and more interconnects."

I figured it's done the same way as the copper wiring is, and is done during the manufacturing of it. Mask, sputter, and etching steps applied to the Cu layers for the block. As it's sputtered directly to the die, no TIM, or separate facilities needed. Extra steps yes.

Unless there's something they've left out, or I missed.

But I'd expect the cost to be tolerable, assuming enough units are produced to utilize economy of scale.