Coronavirus (Covid-19) informational thread

[laptech]

The UK is used by many countries as a test bed to see how the virus behaves and responds due to it's issues on contracting numerous variants of the virus and how each variant is handled. Recently the UK relaxed it's restrictions on meetings and stuff and as a result, infection numbers have started to rise. Nightclubs opened, sporting venues opened up allowing spectators to return, music venues allowed fans to return, hospitality opened up allowing people to return and what is the country seeing as a result of all of that, yep, increased infection rates. Virus experts have always stated that such a scenerio would happen but what can one do? you can not keep the country in a state of permanant restrictions because the government is worried about people catching the virus.

What is happening in the UK I am sure has other governments around the world worried because if getting back to normal is seeing an increase in infection rates, do those governments keep restrictions in place because they are worried if they do what the UK has done, infection rates in their country will increase as well.

Closing borders is a huge issue as well. For example, in the UK, the India variant and South African variant came into the country from infected people entering the UK from those countries. The deadly Kent variant was suspected to have come from infected illegal immigrants crossing the English channel from France with the virus mutating with the alreading existing covid virus in the county, the UK never properly closed it's borders, the government always found an excuse to keep them open, hence infected people being able to enter the country.

At what point does the worlds governments say 'sod it, the human race is going to have to take it's chances with the virus because we cannot keep countries in a permanant state of restrictions'.

 

[pshufd]

The UK is also better at testing than other Northern Hemisphere countries.

 

[Ethrem]

The demographics for evangelicals, skews older. I think that the fear level of senior evangelicals overcomes what they hear on social media.

Younger people are generally better educated than older people. The amount of material that schools have to teach today, especially in the sciences, is roughly three times what I learned in school. Especially biology. It is just such a huge area today compared to what we knew back in the 1970s.

My state has easy access to vaccines. We had excellent numbers when the vaccinations came out and then we hit a wall. Massachusetts had a rough rollout but they zoomed past us for the current rate. The high initial rate, though, really stemmed the number of active cases until Delta took over.

I'm not sure why the 12-15 group is least vaccinated but that's a function of parents mostly.

Fear and common sense definitely come into play with the older population.

Schools absolutely do a good job with educating but critical thinking is discouraged. Critical thinking is where you get your problem solving ability from. When I have a problem put in front of me I can break it down into the pieces I need to solve it. Most of the younger generation do not have that skill anymore. It doesn’t help that technology does your thinking for you now either. The ability to solve complex problems without electronic assistance just isn’t required anymore. As a result, we have more sheep following the herd than ever before.

I did not get the vaccine right away. I wanted to see how people were reacting, how variants were going to respond (because I knew from the start of the pandemic that this was going to be a rapidly-mutating situation thanks to being an RNA virus and its off the charts transmissibility), etc. Of course I also took major precautions to avoid infection. I stayed home all of last year between March and October other than a single trip to drop a box off at UPS. When I left the house earlier this year to go to the dentist, I masked up and social distanced. I tend to stay away from people anyway so this was just a natural thing for me to do. Finally when the delta variant got going I decided it was time. I get my second shot on 9/24.

The 12-15 group is the least vaccinated at least in part due to the fact that the vaccines were originally only approved for those 18+. Pfizer got approval for 12-15 in May and is still the only 12+ vaccine, both Moderna and J&J are 18+ still. It’s actually kind of impressive how quick that number shot up since May.

 

[Ethrem]

At what point does the worlds governments say 'sod it, the human race is going to have to take it's chances with the virus because we cannot keep countries in a permanant state of restrictions'.

I suspect this is coming next year. In the US we are about to go into the fall and winter where people will be indoors and cases are going to skyrocket so it can’t happen before the spring but the reality is that with variants like delta around, most of the anti-vaxxers will catch it and either recover or die this year and many of us who have been vaccinated will end up with minor infections and hybrid immunity going forward.

 

[laptech]

I suspect this is coming next year. In the US we are about to go into the fall and winter where people will be indoors and cases are going to skyrocket so it can’t happen before the spring but the reality is that with variants like delta around, most of the anti-vaxxers will catch it and either recover or die this year and many of us who have been vaccinated will end up with minor infections and hybrid immunity going forward.

I think you are right because it would appear that it is the un-vaccinated who are the ones either in hospital or dying. Nearly every day I read news articles about an 'anti-vaxxers' in hospital dying of the virus telling everyone to get vaccinated or of articles reporting of another -anti-vaxxer' dying. I am not saying it has not happened but articles of vaccinated people dying seem to be rare.

 

[Ethrem]

I think you are right because it would appear that it is the un-vaccinated who are the ones either in hospital or dying. Nearly every day I read news articles about an 'anti-vaxxers' in hospital dying of the virus telling everyone to get vaccinated or of articles reporting of another -anti-vaxxer' dying. I am not saying it has not happened but articles of vaccinated people dying seem to be rare.

Over 95% of the infections in the hospital are unvaccinated and the vaccinated ones who end up in the hospital with a breakthrough infection are extremely unlikely to need to be put on a vent.

I was reading an ICU doctor doing an AMA on reddit and he said that delta is ravaging people. He’s seen people in their 30s come in with a mild cough and be dead a week later and while 20-30% of those put on ventilators were surviving last year, he hasn’t had a single unvaccinated patient come off a vent and survive with delta. They’re really only still offering vents because people demand them for their family members but he said these patients die much worse deaths than if they would have signed a DNI and just been kept comfortable with morphine until they passed. He said they’re truly horrible and drawn out deaths.

 

[pshufd]

Fear and common sense definitely come into play with the older population.

Schools absolutely do a good job with educating but critical thinking is discouraged. Critical thinking is where you get your problem solving ability from. When I have a problem put in front of me I can break it down into the pieces I need to solve it. Most of the younger generation do not have that skill anymore. It doesn’t help that technology does your thinking for you now either. The ability to solve complex problems without electronic assistance just isn’t required anymore. As a result, we have more sheep following the herd than ever before.

I did not get the vaccine right away. I wanted to see how people were reacting, how variants were going to respond (because I knew from the start of the pandemic that this was going to be a rapidly-mutating situation thanks to being an RNA virus and its off the charts transmissibility), etc. Of course I also took major precautions to avoid infection. I stayed home all of last year between March and October other than a single trip to drop a box off at UPS. When I left the house earlier this year to go to the dentist, I masked up and social distanced. I tend to stay away from people anyway so this was just a natural thing for me to do. Finally when the delta variant got going I decided it was time. I get my second shot on 9/24.

The 12-15 group is the least vaccinated at least in part due to the fact that the vaccines were originally only approved for those 18+. Pfizer got approval for 12-15 in May and is still the only 12+ vaccine, both Moderna and J&J are 18+ still. It’s actually kind of impressive how quick that number shot up since May.

I have not kept up with K12 curriculum since the 1990s. We homeschooled our kids and I think that the Socratic method worked really well for them. I do not know if you can use it really effectively with a classroom (or if it is used this way anymore). I ask questions, and examine the response to see if there's deep understanding or not. If there isn't deep understanding, then I look at what is missing. A lot of this kind of thing can be done at the dinner table.

We gave our kids lots of puzzle books as well and I'm sure that helped. The Aha! books by Martin Gardner are quite good. We also have a home library so the kids could see that I'd go and grab a book to get an answer that I didn't know the off the top of my head or if an answer required a moderate level of background material.

They grew up before the internet so it was mainly books and media. I don't think that critical thinking is harmed by access to online materials but maybe it has to be actively encouraged. There are a lot of ways to do that but I think that it's more efficient for parents to do it rather than teachers because they have so much material to get through.

Vaccines opened up below my age group (55-65) in late April so the rest of the adults got access to it near when the younger group could get it a few weeks after all of the adults opened up here. Part of it may be that parents have to take their kids to get it and many may not have the time off to do so.

 

[pshufd]

Over 95% of the infections in the hospital are unvaccinated and the vaccinated ones who end up in the hospital with a breakthrough infection are extremely unlikely to need to be put on a vent.

I was reading an ICU doctor doing an AMA on reddit and he said that delta is ravaging people. He’s seen people in their 30s come in with a mild cough and be dead a week later and while 20-30% of those put on ventilators were surviving last year, he hasn’t had a single unvaccinated patient come off a vent and survive with delta. They’re really only still offering vents because people demand them for their family members but he said these patients die much worse deaths than if they would have signed a DNI and just been kept comfortable with morphine until they passed. He said they’re truly horrible and drawn out deaths.

The will to live is very strong. Even stronger than belief systems. Or else these people wouldn't be in the hospital.

You'll put up with a lot to avoid death. Cancer treatment is usually pretty awful with permanent side-effects but most people go through treatment.

 

[Ethrem]

I have not kept up with K12 curriculum since the 1990s. We homeschooled our kids and I think that the Socratic method worked really well for them. I do not know if you can use it really effectively with a classroom (or if it is used this way anymore). I ask questions, and examine the response to see if there's deep understanding or not. If there isn't deep understanding, then I look at what is missing. A lot of this kind of thing can be done at the dinner table.

We gave our kids lots of puzzle books as well and I'm sure that helped. The Aha! books by Martin Gardner are quite good. We also have a home library so the kids could see that I'd go and grab a book to get an answer that I didn't know the off the top of my head or if an answer required a moderate level of background material.

They grew up before the internet so it was mainly books and media. I don't think that critical thinking is harmed by access to online materials but maybe it has to be actively encouraged. There are a lot of ways to do that but I think that it's more efficient for parents to do it rather than teachers because they have so much material to get through.

Vaccines opened up below my age group (55-65) in late April so the rest of the adults got access to it near when the younger group could get it a few weeks after all of the adults opened up here. Part of it may be that parents have to take their kids to get it and many may not have the time off to do so.

Classrooms are too packed to give that kind of individual attention. If I didn’t have behavioral issues that necessitated being put into the special ed program which came with a smaller class, I would not have succeeded either. There are limits when you have 30 students to one underpaid and overworked teacher. Most of them didn’t even have teaching assistants.

My mother and grandmother encouraged me to use my brain. They even bought me Mensa puzzle books. Used to love just sitting with one of those books for hours figuring out all the puzzles (and when I couldn’t figure one out, I would look up the answer and then figure out how to get there for myself). I had a computer and a Nintendo but my mom was strict about how much I could use them. She would kick me outside if I was inside for too long.

The computer was just an extension of critical thinking skills for me though. I learned how to put them together, repair them, and I taught myself command line and operating systems. I played games too but I liked things like the Dr. Brain games and The Incredible Machine more than mindless shooters and platform games.

Colorado opened the vaccines to everyone 16+ in April. I think considering the timeline our numbers are pretty respectable. Now we have walk in appointments at the grocery store.

 

[Ethrem]

The will to live is very strong. Even stronger than belief systems. Or else these people wouldn't be in the hospital.

You'll put up with a lot to avoid death. Cancer treatment is usually pretty awful with permanent side-effects but most people go through treatment.

It’s kind of amazing how much things change when fear sets in. I tend to struggle with suicidal depression, often thinking about it and a few attempts (with one success where I was brought back twice and then stabilized), but every time I have had a panic attack that made me feel like I was dying, I was not interested in actually going. Lol. The fear somehow triggers the survival instinct that I didn’t otherwise have. I could only imagine how strong that would be for a “normal” person.

 

[pshufd]

In a note from one of my hospitals this morning:

Staff shortages - our commitment to your safety

Health care organizations across the country are facing national staffing shortages, coupled with ongoing strains from the COVID-19 pandemic. This includes increases in COVID-19 hospitalizations and backlogs of patients who delayed their care during the pandemic. These staffing shortages and patient backlogs are impacting Dartmouth-Hitchcock Health (D-HH) too. Please know that your health and safety is our number one priority and that we are doing all that we can to ensure you get the excellent care you need and deserve. We realize the impact that this is having on our patients, their families, and our staff, but we ask for everyone’s patience and understanding as we continue our work to be able to provide safe, high-quality care for all of our patients, as well as those who support and care for those patients.

 

[Mainsail]

From CNN:
CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky highlighted the studies Thursday in the White House Covid-19 briefing, saying they showed children were not getting more severe disease from the Delta variant. "And although we are seeing more cases in children, and more overall cases, these studies demonstrated that there was not increased disease severity in children. Instead, more children have Covid-19 because there is more disease in the community," she said.

"What is clear from these data is community level vaccination coverage protects our children. As the number of Covid-19 cases increase in the community, the number of children getting sick, presenting to the emergency room and being admitted to the hospital will also increase."

Recent CDC data continues to show that deaths in the under 18 age group are extremely rare. The elderly still make up most of the deaths.

 

[Ethrem]

From CNN:
CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky highlighted the studies Thursday in the White House Covid-19 briefing, saying they showed children were not getting more severe disease from the Delta variant. "And although we are seeing more cases in children, and more overall cases, these studies demonstrated that there was not increased disease severity in children. Instead, more children have Covid-19 because there is more disease in the community," she said.

"What is clear from these data is community level vaccination coverage protects our children. As the number of Covid-19 cases increase in the community, the number of children getting sick, presenting to the emergency room and being admitted to the hospital will also increase."

Recent CDC data continues to show that deaths in the under 18 age group are extremely rare. The elderly still make up most of the deaths.

I think the CDC should start tracking how many survivors have serious lung damage though. How many survivors wish they were dead because they’re now on oxygen for the rest of their lives? The damage that the virus does to the lungs is insane. I’ve heard it likened to trying to get air through concrete. It’s totally irreversible.

 

[poorcody]

Covid deaths by age group from CDC:

 

[Mainsail]

Covid deaths by age group from CDC:

View attachment 1826926

Also, in the US, the number of people under 18 is like 75 million. Which is much larger group than the number of people in the older age groups that experience the greatest mortality. So, childhood death from COVID is still very rare….even with the Delta variant.

 

[Mainsail]

This chart from the CDC really hammers home the point that age is still a primary factor:

 

[Healer Flame]

Even if they come up with a vaccine to the virus the biggest challenge will still remain there which is trying to locate the last person with the virus.

Unless the virus fades and die out naturally it will be hard to catch and locate the last group of people or last person with the virus.

It only takes one or two people to spread the virus all over again.

Around March/April 2020 i said this ☝ to my Doctor and also mentioned in different public forums. My Doc said the virus will disappear within 6 to 8 months but of course i wasn't convinced and now look where we are.

Many other replies from the public including one from Zenithal here didn't convince me either.

What i am saying is where is going to end? How? When? I am surprised too how many professors and Chief health officers totally got it wrong.

 

[44267547]

Around March/April 2020 i said this ☝ to my Doctor and also mentioned in different public forums. My Doc said the virus will disappear within 6 to 8 months but of course i wasn't convinced and now look where we are.

Many other replies from the public including one from Zenithal here didn't convince me either.

What i am saying is where is going to end? How? When? I am surprised too how many professors and Chief health officers totally got it wrong.

I suspect a lot of Health professionals who were involved in studying the pandemic from the beginning, merely were mud slinging and undermining the potential damage this disease could havoc. We needed studies and more backed science, which nobody had in the very beginning stages of the pandemic. And certainly nobody could’ve predicted where we are today in terms of the mutation, death toll and overall how it’s affected the world.

 

[Ethrem]

Around March/April 2020 i said this to my Doctor and also mentioned in different public forums. My Doc said the virus will disappear within 6 to 8 months but of course i wasn't convinced and now look where we are.

Many other replies from the public including one from Zenithal here didn't convince me either.

What i am saying is where is going to end? How? When? I am surprised too how many professors and Chief health officers totally got it wrong.

There is no end. It’s going to become endemic. They knew this from the start and were hoping that they may be wrong. This article is from 5/27/2020.

Coronavirus may never go away, even with a vaccine

The pandemic could last for years. Embracing that reality is crucial to the next phase of America’s pandemic response. Experts urge U.S. leaders and public to start thinking long-term.

www.washingtonpost.com

This is why everyone needs to get the vaccine. It’s going to be year after year of needless death and despair until they do. The flu shot was optional for a lot of us (myself included, no flu shot for the past 13 years and no severe flu in that time). It seems like a seasonal COVID shot is inevitable though. I truly hope I’m wrong but it sure looks like it would take a miracle to end this thing at this point.

 

[44267547]

Another variant discovered/named:

Here’s what we know about the mu variant

Cases have been reported in the United States, Colombia, Japan, South Korea and parts of Europe.

www.washingtonpost.com

At this point, I think the theories are correct that C/19 will continue to mutate beyond an understanding of how every variant will affect everybody differently. I am in agreeance on one point, a booster is almost positively necessary at this stage, given it’s no longer just about the origin.

 

[pshufd]

Another variant discovered/named:

Here’s what we know about the mu variant

Cases have been reported in the United States, Colombia, Japan, South Korea and parts of Europe.

www.washingtonpost.com

At this point, I think the theories are correct that C/19 will continue to mutate beyond an understanding of how every variant will affect everybody differently. I am in agreeance on one point, a booster is almost positively necessary at this stage, given it’s no longer just about the origin.

Israel is giving out third shots and talking about fourth vaccines already. Hopefully the fourth is oral and targeted at variants.

 

[44267547]

Israel is giving out third shots and talking about fourth vaccines already. Hopefully the fourth is oral and targeted at variants.

I saw your article on the orals. That’s interesting. I wonder if the orals would be more encouraging for people versus actually having a needle in the arm. I think that’s part of the problem, some people don’t want the ‘shot’ per se.

And I can’t recall where I read this, but I thought one of the pharmaceutical companies was working on an actual medicine to combat the symptoms of C/19. Like something that can be purchased or to that affect.

 

[pshufd]

I saw your article on the orals. That’s interesting. I wonder if the orals would be more encouraging for people versus actually having a needle in the arm. I think that’s part of the problem, some people don’t want the ‘shot’ per se.

And I can’t recall where I read this, but I thought one of the pharmaceutical companies was working on an actual medicine to combat the symptoms of C/19. Like something that can be purchased or to that affect.

There is a lot in the works to treat COVID right now.

An Israeli company is working on oral vaccines. There is another company working on an inhaler but I don't recall the name.

I've been through cancer treatment and I've had so many needles that they don't bother me anymore. One surgery I had, the required me to self inject an anti-coagulant for a month in my knees. I looked at the doctor and asked "Are you kidding?". I chatted with other cancer patients and they told me that at least I didn't have to do it in the stomach (which many of them did).

One of my friends said he didn't like needles and he could have gotten vaccinated in February; and I bugged him about it for a while. Then the JNJ came out and I forwarded him the announcement and he signed up for an appointment and got it. I'm sure that he won't be happy with getting another one.

Inhalable COVID-19 vaccine could expand the reach of COVID-19 vaccines around the world

What if you could get vaccinated against the virus that causes COVID-19 with an inhaler instead of a needle? That’s the premise behind new research by Northeastern’s Paul Whitford.

news.northeastern.edu

Vaccination by inhalation

MIT researchers have developed a vaccination strategy that can create an army of T cells that can protect mucosal surfaces such as the lungs, offering a quicker response to viral invaders.

news.mit.edu

Inhaled COVID-19 vaccine prevents disease and transmission in animals

In a new study assessing the potential of a single-dose, intranasal COVID-19 vaccine, researchers found that the vaccine fully protects mice against lethal COVID-19 infection. The vaccine also blocks animal-to-animal transmission of the virus.

www.sciencedaily.com

 

[bradl]

Another variant discovered/named:

Here’s what we know about the mu variant

Cases have been reported in the United States, Colombia, Japan, South Korea and parts of Europe.

www.washingtonpost.com

At this point, I think the theories are correct that C/19 will continue to mutate beyond an understanding of how every variant will affect everybody differently. I am in agreeance on one point, a booster is almost positively necessary at this stage, given it’s no longer just about the origin.

So to just keep up, we have Alpha, Beta, Delta, Lamda, and Mu?

There's a college fraternity in there, somewhere.

BL.

 

[Cave Man]

So to just keep up, we have Alpha, Beta, Delta, Lamda, and Mu?

The original imported strains (from Europe and from China); variants of concern, alpha, beta, gamma, delta; variants of interest, lambda, kappa, mu, eta, iota; former variants of interest, theta, eta, epsilon. So far, it doesn't look like any of them will be able to out-compete delta, so don't expect displacement of delta anytime soon.