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Other than stealing intellectual property, but we all know how much *some* people care about their own intellect. ;)

Judging by the average intellect of this site, I don't worry about it too much.

If they were that smart, they would add protection to the apps - I know that IM+ does.
 
Discussions like this are great - there's an obvious right answer, but the law makes you take a convoluted route to reach that end.

It's like buying software, you get it home and stick the CD in, read the SLA before you install it and decide that you don't agree to the terms. You should be entitled to return it, but the store won't take it because it's opened. Who wins?

The law - singlehandedly keeping lawyers employed since 34 BC.
 
It sounds like his followers are gobby retards, really. I am not going to email Adobe and say "I LOVE photoshop. I got it on BitTorrent."

ADBE wouldn't care either way. If they did they'd treat you like a Criminal ala pro tools and have twenty different dongles for every tool or those idiotic RIP systems that I love to use. Just don't do that in a corporate setting where they will expend the resources to fine :)
 
That's a very poor analogy.
The boss agreed to pay $1000 but didn't pay the full amount.

Software pirates aren't agreeing to buy software at a set price then not paying it in full.

How is that any different? The price of the product is the contract to pay an amount in exchange for the work.

Pirates are arguing that a given unit of work isn't worth the amount charged, so they simply take the work without paying, breaking the contract. In the analogy, the boss did exactly the same thing.
 
Why do you think that's okay? do you think you're entitled to it just because you can't afford to buy it or because you think it's not worth the price (to you?) What you're saying is that you would only pay for something if it provides sufficient value to you for the price charged. Of course that's fine - that's the basis of the free market. However, you then go one further and say that if you don't want to buy it because it delivers insufficient value to you, you'll steal it.

If I steal a car... it's gone. That's it. Someone else lost a car.

If I duplicate an app - everyone else still has their original app.

Thus, I sleep soundly at night knowing that I didn't hurt anyone and I wouldn't have taken the app from someone's computer if it was their only copy and I couldn't duplicate it.
 
Just because you put a price tag on it doesn't mean that it's actually worth THAT much.. get it?

True, but it IS worth that much if people will pay for it. And the fact that it isn't worth that much to you is not justification for plain old thievery.
 
What an idiot. Each and every pirated app is a loss of income to the developer. You can't rationally argue otherwise. Beside it is legally stealing, people do get prosecuted for it.

Dave

Those who get prosecuted usually benefit from this so-called theft. Most aren't. Do you honestly believe that everyone who downloads something through irregular means would have purchased the product in the first place?
 
Well if its doesn't hurt the devs then why not make all the apps free? Along with any software program?
Is this a strawman argument yet? :) It certainly seems you're trying to misrepresent what I've said.
I said downloading an application, when you had no intention of paying for it, hurts no one.
 
Be afraid little boy.

THANK YOU

I hope you have the good fortune to run into a bitter developer some time soon. Maybe he can explain to you over a beer or two just what it is like to have your efforts stolen by the sleaze in the community. I'm sure if the beer doesn't work he will likely try other avenues to clear your mind or put it to rest.


Dave
 
If Apple had to offer refunds for failed apps, it would be interesting to see if refunds were greater than piracy. The more you have to pay with no refund in sight, the more anxious I become. There are a lot of reviews that end with, "I want a refund."
 
Totally. One of my best friends is in a band and he hears from people ALL THE TIME "I love your band, I got the album on Limewire/bittorrent/etc". Which is great and all, but then they ask why the band doesn't tour more, and his answer is "you got the album on Limewire/bittorrent/etc., so we have no money for gas".

Not a perfect example, and my friend is bitter, but hardly a moot point.

yeah as a programmer I know how frustrating yet rewarding it is if you put in the effort and if someone steals the application that you've made I imagine would be extremely upsetting. Limewire and bittorent are not in themselves illegal it's the content on them that is. They are a great source to download free open source apps and maybe some free wallpapers.
 
You're suggesting that it isn't stealing because the thief perhaps would not have bought it anyway?

_worst_logic_ever_

I believe I said "Piracy is its own can of worms and should be dealt with as such". Lumping it in with theft and suggesting the same punishment as theft is not the proper way to approach it at all.

Growing up I had little interest in music, and didn't gain an interest until a friend allowed me to copy all his music. From there I developed my own interests through torrents while in university. Now that I have a real job, all my new music is purchased. What did the music industry lose from me being a pirate? Nothing. What did they gain? A customer.

I'm not alone either. An Industry Canada (I'm Canadian eh?) study found that music pirates were also the largest purchasers of music. Of course there are those who refuse to pay on principle, but I'm not advocating that piracy is morally correct anyway, just that it needs to be handled differently.

I could be also considered a pirate for downloaded fansubs of anime as they are aired in Japan, but the shows aren't available here and I do purchase what I like when it comes available here (although ridiculous costs temper my enthusiasm).

The way I see it, piracy is a double edged sword. It can be both detrimental to profits and expand a customer base. If you focus solely on the negative aspects you can't take advantage of the positive aspects, or even add them to your business model. Piracy has proven the case for torrents as a distribution method, why don't more companies make use of them (with a private tracker if needed) to cut down on server costs? If so many more people will consume your content for free, why not try and take advantage of that? The most obvious option would be advertising (hulu is a start, of course I don't have access being in Canada).

As long as people shun piracy and write it off as common theft, it will continue to persist and many opportunities will be missed. Apple has learned one of the most basic reasons behind piracy. Convenience. If you make your content easier to find and acquire than free pirated content, there are many that will pay for it. Why else is iTunes successful? Or the App store? The piracy numbers aside, people are paying for things that they never would have before the iPhone. It's so simple: go to the app store, click buy and enter your password. Done and done. Making it harder to obtain paid content, crippling it with DRM, etc, etc in many ways encourages piracy. But many companies do that because they view piracy as theft.

Piracy is its own can of worms... and you can only effectively deal with it if you look at exactly what it is and why it happens. Thinking of it as theft doesn't allow you to do that.

/end rant
 
Oh good, another DRM vs. "Pirating doesn't hurt anyone" argument. :rolleyes:

Honestly, if devs spent a little more time and thought of some innovative ways to prevent piracy I'm sure they could do it. Unfortunately they're focused more on getting the app to the marketplace ASAP before someone else takes their idea. It's sort of a self-defeating cycle.
 
Wealthy people have, in dollar value, a lot more to lose in a fire, and are more likely to be a target of theft. So, much like insurance, taxation is in that respect representative.

Not saying I agree with the above, again just being contrary. ;)

hehe Sorry I can't resist, so since they pay proportionally more they can expect proportionately better service too? :eek:

back on topic: I was just talking as the thread went along, but I am more convinced than ever that the idea of IP is going to fall, just by reading the posts here. :rolleyes:
 
I hope you have the good fortune to run into a bitter developer some time soon. Maybe he can explain to you over a beer or two just what it is like to have your efforts stolen by the sleaze in the community.
Sounds like a good reason not to go into app development. Welcome to real life; enjoy your stay!
 
What an idiot. Each and every pirated app is a loss of income to the developer. You can't rationally argue otherwise. Beside it is legally stealing, people do get prosecuted for it.

Dave

#1, calm down with the flaming. You're throwing up death blossoms.

#2, people get prosecuted for copyright infringement. There is a difference.
 
Is this a strawman argument yet? :) It certainly seems you're trying to misrepresent what I've said.
I said downloading an application, when you had no intention of paying for it, hurts no one.

So then if everyone who upgraded to Leopard from Tiger had downloaded it illegally because they had no intention to pay for it , would it hurt Apple?
 
I hope you have the good fortune to run into a bitter developer some time soon. Maybe he can explain to you over a beer or two just what it is like to have your efforts stolen by the sleaze in the community. I'm sure if the beer doesn't work he will likely try other avenues to clear your mind or put it to rest.

I'd like to see someone try, Dave. I am bigger than your average geek. :p

I am also dev by the way. The income I get is greatly received - lots of people might pirate my app but that's up to them - I figure they wouldn't have bought it anyway.
 
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