LOL, I was thinking the same thing. If you take something that is for sale by the person/entity that created it it is stealing plain and simple. There is no way to justify it! Stealing it, regardless if the pirate would have bought it otherwise is wrong!
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Cost of App Store Piracy Pegged at $450 Million
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LOL, I was thinking the same thing. If you take something that is for sale by the person/entity that created it it is stealing plain and simple. There is no way to justify it! Stealing it, regardless if the pirate would have bought it otherwise is wrong!
Never heard of Barbary corsairs?
No, they're saying that 75% of apps available have been cracked by pirates.
They would show up as two different users, but they would NOT appear to be someone using a pirated app. Pirated apps are detected by checking for removal of encryption, a necessary prerequisite in most piracy techniques.
I've posted a bit about my understanding and experience of the situation here: Real App Store Piracy Numbers
Actually yes, people ARE saying that piracy is NOT a danger to creativity....
um...
Like the person that posted the picture that I quoted, when you quoted me.
Don't worry, I'm not stealing, just simply pirating a TV.
You really don't have to worry, since those TV makers have many copies of the same model you are just taking a copy.
How can it be a LOSS? Apple and/or a given developer never had a CHANCE to sell the app. You have to earn your money before you can "lose" it.
Considering Apple's $500-700 million revenue, I think they're doing ok, and not in any danger of breaking even on the App Store. True, they may be losing "potential sales" to piracy, but there's no way they're "losing money" to people who pirate apps.
And as another poster said, Why the hell would you pirate an iPhone app anyway? $1? $2? Apps are cheap enough that I can buy them without worrying about breaking the bank. A few that don't fall in the $5 and under category (like Logmein Ignition at $30), MAYBE I could see people pirating, but apps that cost that much are few and far between.
Piracy is wrong anyway, but it's pretty sad when someone pirates an app just because they're so cheap that they don't want to spend the money - or they feel "entitled" to steal the apps because "I already pay upwards of $70 a month for the phone - you think I'm gonna pay for apps too??"
Weak.
Of course money has been lost. Some of those pirated copies would have been sales. Some put load on servers thereby costing money without generating revenue. Some pirated copies are substitutional for sales of lower cost alternatives.
It doesn't add up. If 10% of phones are jailbroken, and for every sale, 3 copies are pirated, then there are 30 times as many (non-free) applications on the average jailbroken phone, compared to the average legit phone.
If 10% of those would have been bought if piracy were not an option, then they are saying that the average pirate, without a means to pirate, would buy 3 times more applications than the average non-pirate. Pure nonsense.
If the pirates would buy the same as the average non-pirate, the estimate of lost revenue is 3 times smaller (about 10% of the total market), which doesn't sound so bad. More likely, pirates would buy less (that's why they're pirates), making the lost revenue even less.
If 10% of those would have been bought if piracy were not an option, then they are saying that the average pirate, without a means to pirate, would buy 3 times more applications than the average non-pirate. Pure nonsense.
If the pirates would buy the same as the average non-pirate, the estimate of lost revenue is 3 times smaller (about 10% of the total market), which doesn't sound so bad. More likely, pirates would buy less (that's why they're pirates), making the lost revenue even less.
Don't worry, I'm not stealing, just simply pirating a TV.
You have a machine that copies a tv without taking material from the manufacturer?
Neat.
This whole article is ridiculous, it just doesn't make since. I'm in highschool, one were lots of rich kids bought an iPhone... Granted I haven't seen all of them. But they aren't smart enough to jailbreak, let alone torrent and pirate apps. I mean, sure a couple people I know jailbroke their phone, but didn't pirate apps. I just don't see where the numbers are coming from?
Lots of developers have good evidence for the above numbers from analytic data sent back to them about their apps. Some apps are pirated by even more than 3:1, according to server hits by patched/modified apps. Furthermore, lots of jailbreakers have (and only jailbreakers can) modified their system to block sending out analytic data. And some pirated apps have analytic reporting removed. So the above piracy numbers may be on the low side.
Don't be surprised at these numbers.
Pirates tend to run in groups. For every bunch of you who have never seen a pirated app, there is another group in another country where almost everybody has pirated apps.
Agreed.
People tend to download between 5X and 20X more free apps than paid. Since, for a pirate all apps are free, their pirating at least 10X more paid apps, compared to paying customers, would not be surprising. The 30X number might mean the average pirate samples 2X to 4X more apps (e.g. maybe there is some sort of app addiction mental problem in a much bigger percentage of pirate personality types.)
Back when the pirates weren't as clever at cracking/patching apps, a few devs could make their apps stop working when detecting that they were pirated (for example: pirate changed something that a normal iTunes install doesn't), and put up an advertisement to buy the app from the App store instead. The conversion rate these apps saw was more like 1%, not 10%.
That percentage could be used to calculate more like $45 Million in lost potential app sales revenue (instead of $450M).
It's still a big deal.
And a huge amount more of Federal (and International) copyright law violation.
For argument's sake what you are talking about here in unjust enrichment. The problem is to prove unjust enrichment you need to prove impoverishment. Unless the person admits to being willing to buy the app (which a lot of people would
) or NEEDING the app (e.g. work) then you are back to square 1 where the person would have never bought it to begin with. With this being said copying software for free sets the wrong message. For argument's sake assume EVERYONE copied that floppy. Well just like the video goes, the developer would no longer to able to make new software. For this reason i do believe it is just to punish this action under criminal law.
@ the article there is no way the piracy is that expensive. I would say maybe more like 25-75 apps per hacked iphone is more accurate unless you consider each re-downloaded revision of the same app to count as a new piracy.
What???
Baloney. If pirating is possible at the levels they claim, it is Apple's own fault for making the devices they manufacture so capable of running Apple's own distributed material. Now, that is not to excuse the stealing of apps, but only to point out that Apple should have been able to stop it in a device and distribution infrastructure they control. As for the thieves, I'm sorry to tell you, but they stole what they really didn't want to pay for anyway.
Baloney. If pirating is possible at the levels they claim, it is Apple's own fault for making the devices they manufacture so capable of running Apple's own distributed material. Now, that is not to excuse the stealing of apps, but only to point out that Apple should have been able to stop it in a device and distribution infrastructure they control. As for the thieves, I'm sorry to tell you, but they stole what they really didn't want to pay for anyway.
Did you actually read the article at 24/7 Wall St.?
From the article:
These are real stats. Apparently, I've been more fortunate than most; my $3.99 app has a piracy rate of only 14.2%, as I discuss in my post on Real App Store Piracy Numbers. On the other hand, this number could be underreported, as pirates have some methods of escaping detection.
I love those comparisons!
Implies that all the pirates would have bought the apps if they had to. WTF ?
The shareholders of apple are told - that yes they could have more money if they possibilities for piracy was reduced... and they believe it. What a non-sense, it is like you tell a guy he could have 3x more sex if the other gender would simply not be able to resist. Honestly - wtf ...
Implies that all the pirates would have bought the apps if they had to. WTF ?
The shareholders of apple are told - that yes they could have more money if they possibilities for piracy was reduced... and they believe it. What a non-sense, it is like you tell a guy he could have 3x more sex if the other gender would simply not be able to resist. Honestly - wtf ...
I can believe your 14.2% figure, basically for every six copies you sell via the App Store, someone pirates one. The 75% figure quoted in the article means for every six copies sold people pirate eighteen.
The numbers in the article lead to a figure of 510 pirated paid apps per device containing pirated material. transposing your more believable 14.2% for their 75% piracy rate gives a much more believable 28-29 pirated paid apps per device.
Following that through, the $450m 'cost' of piracy suggested by the article falls to $25m.
Then again, I'm pretty sure that a headline suggesting that in a market worth $1.5b there has been 'theft' or 'piracy' that has 'cost' $25m would make for a very different article.
And a lot less hysteria.
What I always see in discussions about piracy is that it's not a problem "because I wouldn't have bought the application anyway". Combined with the "we're just taking from the rich big companies" attitude, I often see this as a justification for pirating.
But you're not "taking from the rich big companies". You're taking from the small, poor ones. The ones who try to enter into a market where a big player is already firmly positioned, by developing an app which might be easier to use, has less features, and is cheaper. With piracy, you are taking the price out of the equation.
This is why Office/Photoshop/Illustrator alternatives always have such a hard time. They're not competing against a $499 application with their $49 one, they're competing against a "free" application.
On the other hand, if someone "can't pay 0.99" after buying an iPhone, I wonder how convoluted their inner reality distortion field must be.
But you're not "taking from the rich big companies". You're taking from the small, poor ones. The ones who try to enter into a market where a big player is already firmly positioned, by developing an app which might be easier to use, has less features, and is cheaper. With piracy, you are taking the price out of the equation.
This is why Office/Photoshop/Illustrator alternatives always have such a hard time. They're not competing against a $499 application with their $49 one, they're competing against a "free" application.
On the other hand, if someone "can't pay 0.99" after buying an iPhone, I wonder how convoluted their inner reality distortion field must be.
So some people don't have clues how the numbers are so high?
At least a million iPhone sold illegally (not from apple store) in Asia is jailbroken. It must be; in order to use it. Then who would not use the preloaded pirated apps that come with the phone.
I know that to use iPhone, one could just unlocked, but again, the sellers usually ALWAYS jailbreak and unlocked and PRELOADED most popular apps with each iPhone sold. they usually fill the apps to the iPhone total memory(16,32GB). How many apps are that? 200s and more when they go back home and manages to do it themselves.
how many apps do other legal customers buy? i'd say a lot less.
this also happens every time anyone ask these sellers to fix their iPhone for them. remember illegal iphone sold is not supported by the authorized apple store. and the cost for repair is way cheaper than by Apple.
AND it would be impossible to estimated these many piracy, since most of these users are not even connected to the internet at all!! Since, they did not download the pirated app from the internet themselves. AND
Remember that many developing countries in Asia have a terrible 3G network, or an expensive one. AND a horrible wifi.
I think I'm the only one that does not use jailbroken iPhone in a wide group of friends that use iPhone.(about 40 iPhones.) so 1 in 40 ?!
At least a million iPhone sold illegally (not from apple store) in Asia is jailbroken. It must be; in order to use it. Then who would not use the preloaded pirated apps that come with the phone.
I know that to use iPhone, one could just unlocked, but again, the sellers usually ALWAYS jailbreak and unlocked and PRELOADED most popular apps with each iPhone sold. they usually fill the apps to the iPhone total memory(16,32GB). How many apps are that? 200s and more when they go back home and manages to do it themselves.
how many apps do other legal customers buy? i'd say a lot less.
this also happens every time anyone ask these sellers to fix their iPhone for them. remember illegal iphone sold is not supported by the authorized apple store. and the cost for repair is way cheaper than by Apple.
AND it would be impossible to estimated these many piracy, since most of these users are not even connected to the internet at all!! Since, they did not download the pirated app from the internet themselves. AND
Remember that many developing countries in Asia have a terrible 3G network, or an expensive one. AND a horrible wifi.
I think I'm the only one that does not use jailbroken iPhone in a wide group of friends that use iPhone.(about 40 iPhones.) so 1 in 40 ?!
What an estimate! As if Apple did lose a cent!..
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i dont like the way people complain how Apple have such tight control over their app store. The App store does a great job of protecting peoples work, and although everyone makes enough money, not everyone makes millions. Its security and ease of use is what makes it so appealing in many ways.
These figures are still misleading.
These figures are still misleading.
No way there are that many jailbroken iPhones
In order to pirate, the phone must be jailbroken.
There is no way that such a small percentage of jailbroken iPhones produces that much piracy. Its the same couple million phones downloading the same apps over and over and over again, for whatever reason.
In order to pirate, the phone must be jailbroken.
There is no way that such a small percentage of jailbroken iPhones produces that much piracy. Its the same couple million phones downloading the same apps over and over and over again, for whatever reason.
Thanks for the info and for the link to the blog post. This might be a naive question as well, but how on earth does Pinch know it's a cracked copy? Assuming it does know, is it possible to write code into the app to deactivate it if the protections are removed?
In most cases, piracy is just the outgrowth of extreme materialism in our western society.
I suppose most software piracy on the iPhone is done by people who are basically "collecting" apps. They won't even use the apps, it's all about having the apps (and probably showing them off to their peers).
Same thing with music: You can't tell me the average teenager listens to gigabytes upon gigabytes of mp3s regularly. Again, it's not about listening to the music, it's about being the hip guy / girl that always has the most recent albums on their most recent iPhone / iPod Touch.
When pirating, you don't think about whether you actually need whatever you're about to pirate; when you think about buying something, you'll only buy it if you really need it.
Thus, I don't think iPhone app piracy is doing a lot of harm to devs, but I think that materialism (oftentimes the reason for piracy) is pretty disgusting, anyway.
I suppose most software piracy on the iPhone is done by people who are basically "collecting" apps. They won't even use the apps, it's all about having the apps (and probably showing them off to their peers).
Same thing with music: You can't tell me the average teenager listens to gigabytes upon gigabytes of mp3s regularly. Again, it's not about listening to the music, it's about being the hip guy / girl that always has the most recent albums on their most recent iPhone / iPod Touch.
When pirating, you don't think about whether you actually need whatever you're about to pirate; when you think about buying something, you'll only buy it if you really need it.
Thus, I don't think iPhone app piracy is doing a lot of harm to devs, but I think that materialism (oftentimes the reason for piracy) is pretty disgusting, anyway.