Could Apple Pull iCloud Services From the UK Market?

[verdi1987]

Would you agree if there was a law to allow only a specialized department to have access to digital devices if the suspects of terrorism is real?

I don’t want everybody looking into my device without reason and I completely agree with your privacy standpoint.

But I would also like to give a specialized department all the tools to prevent terroristic attacks of any kind.

The problem is once you create a back door, bad actors quickly enter that door.

 

[surferfb]

While I wish all governments would not overstep on the rights of their citizens, Apple deciding to offer the products that they are allowed to offer to those citizens does not appall me. Apple has no control over government actions, and I don’t know that pulling out punishes the government more than the citizens. A company can have their ideologies, but they are ideals which in the real world sadly almost always have to be comprised. You fight as much as you can, but you really have to pick your battles. It would have to be an extremely oppressive situation where I think pulling out would be appropriate or necessary. Because if they pulled out of every country whose government was mistreating its people, what country would be left to do business in?

I would guess pulling out of a democracy probably punishes the government more, as they are accountable at the next election; pulling out of an authoritarian regime punishes the citizens more, as they have no recourse. But yes, Apple must pick its battles. Given how critically they've linked user privacy to their products one would think this is a case where they battle is one that should be picked. We'll see what happens.

 

[yustas]

The UK is not in the EU

They've been out for over 5 years now

They are all the same. They need to be taught a lesson, bullying US companies is not allowed.

 

[jdawgnoonan]

Not too long ago I thought that the UK could be a fun place to live. I no longer think that at all, and this is just one more thing that I could add to a long list of reasons. The citizens of the UK really should consider forcing change or leaving in my opinion.

 

[Wanted797]

Apple could always pursue legal challenges. However, according to the IPA, while the company can appeal the "technical capability notice," it must comply with the order during the appeals process. Apple would be forced to temporarily implement the backdoor while arguing against its legality. Not only that, the IPA makes it a criminal offense to reveal that the government even made the demand.

You know the law is backwards when this kind of thing can happen.

 

[yustas]

Not too long ago I thought that the UK could be a fun place to live. I no longer think that at all, and this is just one more thing that I could add to a long list of reasons. The citizens of the UK really should consider forcing change or leaving in my opinion.

The UK is a fun place to live if you enjoy being gaslit into submission and you don't even get bangers and mash on the house for that.

 

[chars1ub0w]

No. I don’t want governments telling companies or users what to do or not to do.

Well, you're an idealist. In the real world, governments do and companies must bend the knee or do no business there.

 

[Fatboy71]

I hate that fascist Nazi Starmer with a passion.

 

[UnusedLoginID]

“alternative cloud storage solutions”. Wait, don’t these alternate solutions have encryption too? And if not then Apple caving in would just put them at the same level.
Anyway, “You have zero privacy, get over it” - Jan. 1999, Scott McNealy

Sun on Privacy: 'Get Over It'

At the Monday night launch of Sun Microsystems' new Jini technology, CEO Scott McNealy calls consumer privacy a non-issue. The Federal Trade Commission has another view. By Polly Sprenger.

www.wired.com

 

[yustas]

Apple could always pursue legal challenges. However, according to the IPA, while the company can appeal the "technical capability notice," it must comply with the order during the appeals process. Apple would be forced to temporarily implement the backdoor while arguing against its legality. Not only that, the IPA makes it a criminal offense to reveal that the government even made the demand.

What are they going to do, arrest Tim Apple? Trump will smack them so hard they will not know how to spell iCloud.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

The UK socialists don't need any U.S. tech.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

The US will be demanding this next.

Won't happen

 

[LV426]

And… the UK isn’t even part of the EU. I think the EU will follow. I don’t mind because I’ve nothing to hide.

Do you have any curtains in your house?

 

[iamasmith]

If it goes through the process will probably be along the lines of a very wordy agreement to use your Key Encyption key to decrypt existing data encryption keys, or perhaps another primary Key encryption key so that the service as well as you can decrypt your data. I would bet on the latter, a single step KEK mechanism may mean lots of blocks to process but if your key decrypted another key encryption key then it would unlock the whole thing instantly.
So, for folks agreeing (not necessarily happy) with the requirements there is probability that this won't require you to migrate your own data.

 

[antiprotest]

To demand backdoor access to encrypted information belonging to other nations is like a declaration of war.

 

[Timpetus]

Thing is no one is able to have a sensible conversation about the impact of encrypted communications on society. I can fully understand privacy but if you're trying to investigate and shut down criminal operations like drug cartels and child sexual abuse gangs which is enabled by these protections what exactly do you suggest?

Good old-fashioned police work in those cases. They can use the extra time they'll have from not having to deal with the billions of cybercrimes enabled by breaking encryption. Giving up digital privacy is not worth the massively larger downside for a minor (and theoretical, because it's likely they wouldn't even do the few good things it could enable) upside.

 

[JamesMay82]

is there a how to guide of how to live off the cloud!

It’s been so long I forgot how!

I’m trying to think how emails were stored before the cloud.. was it just locally? Then we had the hassle of moving mail boxes over to new machines etc?

 

[j26]

I doubt it. If they do it they'll do what they've done for China and make it work for all users in the EU with a server storing the keys in the UK.

Again, this is already done for China as China doesn't allow E2EE in their market that the government can't decrypt.

Why lump the EU in with this nonsense - the Brits chose their own course. Let them sink or swim in this cesspit of their own making

 

[I7guy]

You somehow answered my question, thanks!

My question was about this mentioning in the article: “Confronted by the UK government's latest encryption demands, the company must now prove whether its commitment to user privacy is truly unbreakable, or just a corporate slogan that crumbles under regulatory pressure”

In an attempt to criticize Apple the question is a straw man. The question is: is Apple going to follow the rule of law? As distasteful as it is to some and makes the day of others.

 

[familychoice]

What a nasty thread.

 

[lkrupp]

Straight up Fascism in the UK.

Fascism is now claimed to be everywhere, the new boogeyman of the left. Hide under your bed, put your daughter in a safe room, a fascist may be living next door. How about a reporting system like sexual offenders. You get a notice that a suspected fascist moved in your neighborhood.

 

[t0rqx]

What happens is what happend in the US. They build the backdoors as pleased and the newspaper will release an article how Apple fought back and refused and the deal went silent.

In truth this is a cover up to calm the consumers and provide the back doors as pleased.

The code is there, uncovered and covered by this website and the VPN backdoor still has not been closed.

 

[I7guy]

And the U.S. too, right?

President Donald Trump and the nation’s top law enforcement official are facing off against Apple, the most valuable American company.

The fight started because the FBI says it cannot extract data from two iPhones used by Mohammed Saeed Alshamrani, who is suspected of killing three people last month in a shooting at a Navy base in Pensacola, Florida. Attorney General William Barr and Trump want Apple to help by unlocking the phones it manufactured.

Although the current fight is over these two password-protected phones, it’s only the latest skirmish in a long-running battle over whether technology companies should give law enforcement special access to customers’ data.

Barr and other law enforcement officials call it the “going dark” problem and argue that all data should be accessible with a warrant. Apple and techies tend to call the concept a “backdoor” and argue that it would hurt security for everyone who uses that device.

Thanks for the four year old article.

 

[Ctrlos]

That's what the UK may force them to end in order to comply with:

"the British government has secretly demanded that Apple give it blanket access to all encrypted user content uploaded to iCloud."

What did you think this was about?

British government secretly ordered Apple to create a worldwide iCloud backdoor

It’s being reported that the British government secretly ordered Apple to create a security backdoor into all content uploaded by...

9to5mac.com

9to5Mac’s Take​

The British government’s demand is as technically clueless as it is outrageous.

First, much of the data is protected by end-to-end encryption (E2EE). This means that Apple does not hold a copy of the key, and would be unable to decrypt it. You can ensure your iCloud data uses E2EE by switching on Advanced Data Protection.

Second, even for the data Apple could supply, there are already legal mechanisms in place for law enforcement agencies to request it. They simply need to go to a judge to apply for a court order. The judge will weigh the interests of justice against those of privacy and make an individual determination based on the specific circumstances in that case. Where a judge agrees to issue a court order, Apple complies with these to the extent that it is able to do so
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[farmboy]

I'm glad to see the outrage

Now... I wish folks realized what all the governments want and secretly try to get all the time

(psst... it ain't just the UK)

This is true...and that's why everybody has a stake in this, even if you think (erroneously) that you have nothing to hide. Because if governments can exploit this back door, so will other bad actors.