Could Apple Pull iCloud Services From the UK Market?

[nt5672]

Can’t say that of myself but people who know me well don’t think so.

I guess that is well explained by the fact that they must be naive also?

 

[Timo_Existencia]

That's because it can be argued that security is actually not compromised with the DMA

It "can be argued" in a way that I find disingenuous and wholly without merit.

 

[jvchappy]

Not only that, the IPA makes it a criminal offense to reveal that the government even made the demand.

Tim cook should come out publicly and call out the UK Gov, even though it's illegal. (US wouldn't extradite him if UK tried to get him for breaking the law). He should also shut down all icloud services in the UK and threaten to pull out of the country. Enough citizens will get pissed that the govt will back down

 

[nt5672]

Thing is no one is able to have a sensible conversation about the impact of encrypted communications on society. I can fully understand privacy but if you're trying to investigate and shut down criminal operations like drug cartels and child sexual abuse gangs which is enabled by these protections what exactly do you suggest?

It is really simple, there are other ways to catch criminals. Losing my privacy should not be one of them.

 

[nt5672]

If you give permission to the government to access your data, there is no issue. The question is whether the government should have the power to check all of your data without your permission.

Governments tend to claim they require special powers to protect their citizens or to combat a threat. The problem is, once they obtain those special powers they can abuse them and history is rife with examples.

An often the abuse is much more rampant than the actual beneficial use.

 

[CaTOAGU]

The only way to combat this is to force public outcry from UK citizens and thereby trigger polticians losing reelection or (better) being recalled.

Apple needs to pull services entirely in response. "Backdoors for the good guys" are fantasies by idiot politicians. Any backdoor they create would be exploitable by foreign governments as well.

This is a very high stakes game of chicken. Let's see how Parliament reacts when constituents are royally angry with them for losing their iCloud services.

The problem with that is the lack of morality in both our parties combined with our first past the post electoral system makes this very difficult. If Labour don’t do this Conservatives will.

 

[bsolar]

So folks that don’t have ADP enabled currently have their iCloud data open to the authorities already, UK or USA?

Yes, except for data that is end-to-end encrypted regardless of ADP (which I think is only passwords and health data).

Without ADP the rest of the data is still encrypted but Apple has the encryption keys so it's able to decrypt the data and provide it to authorities.

My understanding is that in the US Apple does comply with authorities' request for data if the authorities have a warrant and I assume the same applies in the UK or other jurisdictions.

Instead with end-to-end encryption Apple does not have the keys to decrypt the data in the first place so Apple cannot provide the decrypted data to authorities even if they wanted to. This also means Apple cannot help a user to recover the data from iCloud if for some reason the user loses access to it.

 

[bsolar]

It "can be argued" in a way that I find disingenuous and wholly without merit.

Well, if you as a user decide to not use third-party offers and remain in Apple's App Store, how are you less secure than before the DMA? I don't see a significant difference in security and definitely nothing that can be compared to the UK's anti-encryption request.

 

[19callum93]

Who’s running Apple nowadays? 😭

 

[kerr]

If the stupid UK want to continue to FA, the UK need to be made to FO. So sick of that pathetic country.

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Well, if you as a user decide to not use third-party offers and remain in Apple's App Store, how are you less secure than before the DMA? I don't see a significant difference in security and definitely nothing that can be compared to the UK's anti-encryption request.

I understand that you and others who cheer on the EU don't see a problem. Hundreds of pages of discussion haven't changed anyone's mind, seemingly.

 

[verdi1987]

And the U.S. too, right?

President Donald Trump and the nation’s top law enforcement official are facing off against Apple, the most valuable American company.

The fight started because the FBI says it cannot extract data from two iPhones used by Mohammed Saeed Alshamrani, who is suspected of killing three people last month in a shooting at a Navy base in Pensacola, Florida. Attorney General William Barr and Trump want Apple to help by unlocking the phones it manufactured.

Although the current fight is over these two password-protected phones, it’s only the latest skirmish in a long-running battle over whether technology companies should give law enforcement special access to customers’ data.

Barr and other law enforcement officials call it the “going dark” problem and argue that all data should be accessible with a warrant. Apple and techies tend to call the concept a “backdoor” and argue that it would hurt security for everyone who uses that device.

That’s from the first administration. The stance of the security agencies has changed since then. From this article:

In December, the FBI, the National Security Agency, and the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency jointly recommended that companies "ensure that traffic is end-to-end encrypted to the maximum extent possible" to protect against state-sponsored hacking.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Why do people keep talking about the EU and the DMA?

This topic has nothing to do with that

 

[Guacamole]

Starmer wants to see who has pictures of mean memes, and who disagrees with the Labour Party and who says something mean against certain religion. Starmer wants to arrest you

 

[Timo_Existencia]

Why do people keep talking about the EU and the DMA?

This topic has nothing to do with that

Because many of us don't agree with you that the one has nothing to do with the other.

 

[BuffaloTF]

Ehhh. Just change iCloud to a Time Capsule they send you for storage. Make it a rental drive for all I care, even. Don’t cave.

 

[subjonas]

And… the UK isn’t even part of the EU. I think the EU will follow. I don’t mind because I’ve nothing to hide.

What you mean is you have nothing bad to hide, which may be true. But there may come a time when power exchanges hands and you’ll have to hide something good from them, such as your ideology, or your history, or your associations. But by then it may be too late because they’ll already have a detailed first hand record of it.

 

[verdi1987]

The info they already have as we type this

😡

I'm blown away that there aren't at least some Republicans fully outraged about this
MAGA has taken over the R party totally

It’s unbelievable. Elected officials just seem OK with giving this unelected, unconfirmed, unofficial “department” full access to whatever it wants, with power to modify computer code.

 

[macfacts]

Let’s get real here: Apple can’t do anything because data is end to end encrypted. It couldn’t decode it if they wanted to.

If apple had physical access to your device they could https://www.xstore.co.za/stuff/2024...e-backdoor-in-5-generations-of-apple-silicon/

 

[verdi1987]

You have to see it in context:

Do I want my government to spy on me for no reason? NO

Do I want my government to protect me, friends, family and everyone against a terrorist attack? YES

Do I permit my government to check all my data on all my digital devices PURELY and ONLY for safety for society? YES

IF Apple is able to decrypt it, it should allow special forces of democratic governments help ONLY UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES.

Nuclear bombs fit in just a small bag these days. I think EVERYONE would have wanted to prevent a disaster of exploding such a device in any big cities around the world.

When there are reasonable signs of terrorism, I wish my government has all the tools to prevent them.

But it won’t just end at those types of requests, though.

In my city they installed CCTV. Access was only supposed to be granted to law enforcement to aid in specific crimes. Of course that limitation quickly broke down, and police had broad access to the cameras.

 

[9081094]

What you mean is you have nothing bad to hide, which may be true. But there may come a time when power exchanges hands and you’ll have to hide something good from them, such as your ideology, or your history, or your associations. But by then it may be too late because they’ll already have a detailed first hand record of it.

I understand what you’re saying and I’m all about privacy. But you have to see it in context:

I would agree if a specialized department who is responsible to prevent terrorist attacks or intentions good have a way to look into those devices ONLY if the suspicion is warranted for that. And ONLY FOR THAT PURPOSE.

I know it’s a two edged sword because you want your device safe and private.

But we’re living in a hostile world at the moment and I personally would agree when democratic chosen government could order a specialized department to have access to suspicious behavior to prevent disasters for lots of innocents.

 

[9081094]

But it won’t just end at those types of requests, though.

In my city they installed CCTV. Access was only supposed to be granted to law enforcement to aid in specific crimes. Of course that limitation quickly broke down, and police had broad access to the cameras.

Would you agree if there was a law to allow only a specialized department to have access to digital devices if the suspects of terrorism is real?

I don’t want everybody looking into my device without reason and I completely agree with your privacy standpoint.

But I would also like to give a specialized department all the tools to prevent terroristic attacks of any kind.

 

[cocky jeremy]

The US will be demanding this next.

I'd just move my **** elsewhere.

 

[ajf.350d]

The question is, what have Microsoft, Google et al decided to do about this?
fairly certain it isn’t just Apple getting the request.

I assume as well, if they killed iCloud in UK that would also be the end of Handoff and other cross device services?

 

[subjonas]

The China double standard is the elephant in the room. But perhaps Apple needs to stand up for privacy in democracies, which would require two different policies.

While I wish all governments would not overstep on the rights of their citizens, Apple deciding to offer the products that they are allowed to offer to those citizens does not appall me. Apple has no control over government actions, and I don’t know that pulling out punishes the government more than the citizens. A company can have their ideologies, but they are ideals which in the real world sadly almost always have to be comprised. You fight as much as you can, but you really have to pick your battles. It would have to be an extremely oppressive situation before I think pulling out would be appropriate or necessary. Because if they pulled out of every country whose government was mistreating its people, what country would be left to do business in?