At what point could non-adherence fall into the scope of Reckless Endangerment, or Assault, or similar criminal acts?
(yes, I know that the first attempt to lay a charge like that would open a Pandora's box, but I'm just curious...)
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COVID/Coronavirus non-political DISCUSSION thread
- Thread starter hawkeye_a
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At what point could non-adherence fall into the scope of Reckless Endangerment, or Assault, or similar criminal acts?
(yes, I know that the first attempt to lay a charge like that would open a Pandora's box, but I'm just curious...)
Your specific post/question is against forum rules to discuss this, as it’s PRSI related. If my post prompted you to jump to some other type of logic, that wasn’t really my intent, It was meant to indicate it’s difficult to enforce those masking and/or not following guidelines for a multitude of reasons when out in public.
And......now Marcus theaters announced today they are closing all 14 locations in my region again after an outbreak.
So lets look at the timeline of this ‘shocking news:
They reopened doors on August 29th and survived one month before they were forced to close for a second time as of today.
It’s very evident this pandemic will likely force-close movie theaters Into a permanent state where the shift is ‘all-digital’ (Like revamp how movies are viewed with at home digital rentals for XYZ amount of time with an expiration, ect.)
I said it before, you can’t safely socially distance in a movie theater and you certainly cannot properly mask when you’re offering concessions, therefore movie theaters are an unsafe environment in general it shouldn’t be reopened, unless your region is in a safe neutral zone where cases are not on the rise.
What exactly prevents someone from wearing a mask?
Hope you, your family, and friends are well- and for those who are ill, a quick recovery. Wishing you good health!
Thank you
. It’s just about cutting out as much social contact with people as possible for a while I think. We’ve been ordered to go back to working from home and I am continuing to avoid shops and pubs. It sounds like my friend is getting better at least and his wife who just has a cough feels generally fine in herself. Plenty aren’t so lucky.
Post it in PRSI. This is the NON-political thread, that is it's only about hard info with no public policy debate.
My post is completely nonpolitical. It is entirely about hard info (unless numbers/math from the CDC, US Census Bureau and one department of health website don't count as hard info). I wasn't debating public policy. That would be a total waste of time.
On the initial draft you started discussing about masks and their regulation etc, which is inevitably a public policy debate.
No, I did not discuss their regulation, etc. I stated a simple fact regarding one particular U.S. state only for the purposes of statistical comparison. As you shall see, I make no claims regarding whether they should be worn or not. I was simply stating a hard fact to make a hard, factual, statistical comparison. I don't even want to have this debate that we are having now. I know the utter futility of "debate."
Make the insanity stop! The
CDC admits the following in a double
blind government study;
1.) Those who "never wear a mask" only
make up 3.9% of the total coronavirus
cases.
2.) Those who "always wear a mask"
make up 70.6% of the total coronavirus
cases.
Link to the CDC study proving mask
wearers are much more likely to
become infected. (3rd page down)
CDC admits the following in a double
blind government study;
1.) Those who "never wear a mask" only
make up 3.9% of the total coronavirus
cases.
2.) Those who "always wear a mask"
make up 70.6% of the total coronavirus
cases.
Link to the CDC study proving mask
wearers are much more likely to
become infected. (3rd page down)
That is outstanding information! It supports exactly what I've been saying about the numbers in South Dakota (where I live). I've been wanting to find that very information for a long time, but I didn't think it would be available. Thank you! Would you please consider clicking this link and making the same comment there? If not that, then would you please allow me to post your information there? I will give you full -- and well deserved -- credit, and I will link right back to your post here.
I also think you will like the list I just posted there in my second comment.
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This is medical, NOT political. It features Dr. Elke De Klerk of the Netherlands.
And also, as you will see, 87,000 nurses have made a certain something very clear. What do those nurses (and doctors) know that the average person doesn't?
I do NOT want any debate, so please don't.
And also, as you will see, 87,000 nurses have made a certain something very clear. What do those nurses (and doctors) know that the average person doesn't?
I do NOT want any debate, so please don't.
You can't post a video like that and say no debate. The only thing I can find on this Dr. is that she's a GP, not really the Dr you'ed go to for this kind of reporting. Other than that, she provides no actual substitutive evidence to support her claim. Doctors for truth it seems is more of a conspiracy group then a truthful one. Basically this is spreading BS and misinformation.
A non-peer-reviewed study by self reporting people (just 314) that doesn't address issues like if they were properly wearing masks. You know like those that wear them as chin diapers or those that have their noses out that makes wearing it in the first place pointless. It also include many who went out socializing and in many of those cases, going out to eat, again places where masks don't really work. I love the line in this report "masks cannot be effectively worn while eating and drinking". Essentially the argument by you and others are making is cherry picking data while ignoring other key issues.
Posts misrepresent CDC study examining mask use
CLAIM: The Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention shows that the majority of people who get sick with COVID-19 wear masks. AP’S ASSESSMENT: Missing context. Masks are designed to prevent the spread of the virus by the person wearing it and...
It’s looking like Wales is likely to go into a full lockdown for 2-3 weeks covering half term. As sad as it is it’s very much needed. Our cases are shooting up and in some areas it’s far worse than March/April. Pubs and restaurants are likely to close again which I think is a good idea although sad for that industry.
Police are scanning number plates at a retail park a few miles away from me that is in a different county. There are no emergency reasons to go there as it’s all clothes shops. People I know have been ranting on Facebook because they’ve had fines arrive through the post. It’s quite funny watching them get little sympathy from some that they know lol. It’s not hard to not go and buy clothes right now is it?
Police are scanning number plates at a retail park a few miles away from me that is in a different county. There are no emergency reasons to go there as it’s all clothes shops. People I know have been ranting on Facebook because they’ve had fines arrive through the post. It’s quite funny watching them get little sympathy from some that they know lol. It’s not hard to not go and buy clothes right now is it?
I’m all for a second lock-down if it’s completely necessary, because too many people are exercising -willful negligence- where they’re not doing their part by masking, social distancing with safety regulations that have been over-emphasized for six months and you’d think others would grasp the most basic concept that our communities rely on cooperation from everyone, but nope, we have Those who are far less intelligent and lacking self-control slowing down this pandemic.
In my region (Minnesota area), they’re already starting to advocate to not group with your extended families for the holidays, and I totally support that 100%. A lot of people are upset because they think they should congregate in large numbers for Thanksgiving, Christmas, but because Of others lack of cooperation from has voluntarily punished those who are actually trying to make a difference, therefore; it’s only extending this pandemic longer than it needs to be. So for those who are getting upset, they shouldn’t be pointing the finger at Local officials having to make these tough decisions with economic closures, they (The ones who are smart and tactful with protection) should be upset with those who are a direct result of causing more problems.
All we can do for our communities, (This a quote I use—>) “Is be the change that you want others to see”. I’m never afraid to stand up in what I believe in, I will continue to play the role that I need to do better my community, protect ourself and others.
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Once again, this is medical, not political.
It is also not about debating. As I've said before, I won't do it (thread rules, whether written or unwritten, appear to forbid it anyway). With the exception of getting posts/threads deleted, debating accomplishes nothing, because seemingly 99 out of every 100 people in the modern world never change their minds, not even if they are presented with irrefutable proof. I guess my hope is that that 1 lonely person out of every 100 will stumble onto this post. That being said, the world-weary skeptic in me is convinced that this is yet another waste of my time. In fact, I suspect that one or more of you will (maybe with slightly less certainty this time) consider the following doctors' qualifications to be barely one step above those of Granny Clampett, in spite of their medical degrees and decades of (often prestigious) medical and professorial experience. Nonetheless, just for the heck of it, why not listen to AT LEAST the first 90 seconds, and, after that the next 10 minutes, of their video with an open mind? If you are sincere truth seekers and not partisans (aka "political"), you will do at least that much. The first speaker is Dr. Simone Gold, MD, JD, whose name is first on the list below.
This is medical information. Take it or leave it, but, please, be courteous enough to let everyone who watches this video make up his or her own mind.
List of Doctors
The source of this list.
——
P.S. Barrie Zwicker is a Canadian journalist who, before becoming independent, worked at several newspapers in Canada and the United States, including The Globe and Mail, Toronto Star, Vancouver Province, Sudbury Star, Detroit News, and Lansing State Journal. He was once asked the following question: "Do you take offense at the term 'conspiracy theorist'?" He replied: "I welcome being called a conspiracy theorist, as this exposes the intellectual bankruptcy of the person applying it and provides me with an opportunity to point out that intellectual bankruptcy."
It is also not about debating. As I've said before, I won't do it (thread rules, whether written or unwritten, appear to forbid it anyway). With the exception of getting posts/threads deleted, debating accomplishes nothing, because seemingly 99 out of every 100 people in the modern world never change their minds, not even if they are presented with irrefutable proof. I guess my hope is that that 1 lonely person out of every 100 will stumble onto this post. That being said, the world-weary skeptic in me is convinced that this is yet another waste of my time. In fact, I suspect that one or more of you will (maybe with slightly less certainty this time) consider the following doctors' qualifications to be barely one step above those of Granny Clampett, in spite of their medical degrees and decades of (often prestigious) medical and professorial experience. Nonetheless, just for the heck of it, why not listen to AT LEAST the first 90 seconds, and, after that the next 10 minutes, of their video with an open mind? If you are sincere truth seekers and not partisans (aka "political"), you will do at least that much. The first speaker is Dr. Simone Gold, MD, JD, whose name is first on the list below.
This is medical information. Take it or leave it, but, please, be courteous enough to let everyone who watches this video make up his or her own mind.
List of Doctors
Dr. Simone Gold, MD, JD, is a board certified emergency physician. She graduated from Chicago Medical School before attending Stanford University Law School to earn her Juris Doctorate degree. She completed her residency in Emergency Medicine at Stony Brook University Hospital in New York. Dr. Gold worked in Washington D.C. for the Surgeon General, as well as for the Chairman of the Labor & Human Resources Committee. She works as an emergency physician on the front-lines whether or not there is a pandemic. Her clinical work serves all Americans: from urban-inner city, to suburban and the Native American population. Her legal work focuses on policy issues relating to law and medicine.
Dr. Jay Bhattacharya is Professor of Medicine at Stanford University and a research associate at the National Bureau of Economics Research. He holds an MD and PhD in economics, both earned at Stanford University. Dr. Bhattacharya’s research focuses on the health and well-being of vulnerable populations, with a particular emphasis on the role of government programs, biomedical innovation, and economics. Dr. Bhattacharya’s recent research focuses on the epidemiology of COVID-19, as well as an evaluation of policy responses to the epidemic. He has published 135 articles in top peer-reviewed scientific journals in medicine, economics, health policy, epidemiology, statistics, law, and public health among other fields.
Dr. James Todaro received his medical degree from Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons in New York. He then completed his ophthalmology residency. He continues to lead investigative research in COVID-19 on a global scale. He wrote the first widely read paper on chloroquine in treatment of COVID-19 in An Effective Treatment for Coronavirus (COVID-19), and most recently the first detailed exposé on Surgisphere in A Study Out of Thin Air. His early discovery of the fraudulent data investigation led to what is now referred to as #LancetGate - the stunning once-in-a-generation retraction of the now infamous The Lancet study that had led to the European Union and the WHO halting studies of HCQ.
Dr. Robin Armstrong is an internal medicine physician. He owns Armstrong Medical Group. He is known for successful early treatment of the frail elderly COVID-19 patients in the nursing home setting early in the pandemic. He serves on the Finance Commission of Texas. His wife Martha is also a doctor.
Dr. Jeffrey Barke is a Board Certified primary care physician in private practice for over 25 years. He completed his medical school and family practice residency at the University of California, Irvine. He has served as an Associate Clinical Professor at U.C. Irvine and a board member of the Orange County Medical Association. He is also a reserve deputy and a tactical physician for a local law enforcement SWAT team. Dr. Barke served as an elected school board member for the Los Alamitos Unified School District for 12 years and is the cofounder and current school board Chair of the free public charter school Orange County Classical Academy.
Dr. Teryn Clarke is a board-certified neurologist. The Alzheimer’s Foundation of America selected her as their Dementia Care Professional of the Year in 2015.
Dr. Robert C. Hamilton, M.D., general pediatrician in Santa Monica, CA, for 36 years. He studied medicine at UCLA Medical School and did his pediatric residency and Chief Residency at UCLA Medical Center as well. He is a former President of the Los Angeles Pediatric Society. Dr. Hamilton founded ‘Lighthouse Medical Missions’, a volunteer organization that organizes short-term medical missions to Africa, Asia, Central and South America. He has traveled to Africa on medical teams 26 times and his most recent trip was to Colombia to aid Venezuelan refugees leaving their country… He has written editorial articles for the Wall Street Journal, and appeared as a television guest on Good Morning America, The Doctor Oz Show, Fox’s Morning Show, Beijing’s CCTV show ‘Challenge Impossible’ and on Fox’ The Ingraham Angle…
Dr Stella Immanuel is a Cameroonian-American physician currently operating two clinics in Houston Texas: a pediatric clinic and a general practice clinic. She practiced general medicine in Nigeria before immigrating to America to complete her residency as a pediatrician. Over the years she continued to work in the emergency department seeing patients of all ages. She was an early advocate for early treatment of COVID19 patients with hydroxychloroquine, and has treated more than 500 patients with tremendous success, nearly always avoiding the need for hospitalization.
Dr. Joseph A. Ladapo, MD, PhD, is a physician and health policy researcher… He is Associate Professor-in-Residence at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA. His research program is funded by the National Institutes of Health, and his writings have appeared in the Washington Post, USA Today, and the Wall Street Journal. Dr. Ladapo graduated from Wake Forest University and received his MD from Harvard Medical School and his PhD in Health Policy from Harvard Graduate School of Arts and Sciences.
Dr. Mark McDonald trained in both adult and child & adolescent psychiatry at UCLA and achieved double board certification. For the past eight years, he has also trained in adult psychoanalysis. He now specializes in child and adolescent psychiatry. Dr. McDonald has lived and worked in Europe, Asia, and Central America, and he is proficient in Japanese, Spanish, and French. He studied classical music, history, and literature at UC Berkeley. Before beginning his medical education, he taught in public schools. His opinions on the need to re-open America’s schools have been widely published in local and national news, including the Wall Street Journal and The Federalist.
Dr. Geoff Mitchell is a graduate of the Medical College of Ohio and did his post-graduate training at Riverside Methodist Hospital in Columbus, Ohio. He was recently cited by the American Board of Emergency Medicine for his fourth ten-year certification. Dr. Mitchell is a two-time recipient of the Press Ganey Summit Award, the nation’s highest award for patient satisfaction. He was a director of the American Academy of Emergency Medicine and a recipient of that organization’s lifetime achievement Keaney Award. Dr. Mitchell’s work in post-war Kosovo was applauded by the WHO. Fighting health care fraud, he earned a mid-career law degree. Dr. Mitchell is presently focused on his medicolegal work, and has written on improved COVID outcomes in malaria-endemic, sub-Saharan Africa.
Dr. Brian Tyson is a board certified family practitioner who worked as an emergency physician at Arrowhead Regional Medial center for 13 years as well as working as a hospitalist physician for 14 years before opening his own Urgent Care in 2018. Dr. Tyson was the Program Medical Director for Cogent Healthcare and Beaver medical group. His experience with COVID-19 has been exceptional, with over 17,000 patients evaluated, over 1900 positive cases, only one hospitalization and zero deaths. His urgent care serves a very high-risk population including two nursing homes, and his success was due to his aggressive early management. Due to his proven methodology, he is considered a frontline COVID-19 treatment expert and has been featured on multiple media sites.
Dr. Scott Jensen … In 2016 he received the very prestigious annual statewide award, Minnesota Family Physician of the Year, from the Minnesota Academy of Family Physicians. In November 2016 Jensen was elected to the Minnesota State Senate.
Dr. Peter A. McCullough, MD, MPH, completed his medical degree as an Alpha Omega Alpha graduate from the University of Texas Southwestern Medical School in Dallas. He completed his internal medicine residency at the University of Washington in Seattle, cardiology fellowship at William Beaumont Hospital, and master’s degree in public health at the University of Michigan. Dr. McCullough is an internationally recognized authority on the evaluation of medical evidence concerning contemporary issues in medicine and has published widely with 1000 publications and 500 citations in the National Library of Medicine. Dr. McCullough has been a leader in the medical response to the COVID-19 disaster and has published the first guidance for the medical treatment of ambulatory (early) patients infected with SARS-CoV-2.
Dr. Lee Merritt graduated from the University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry in New York, where she was elected to life membership in the Alpha Omega Alpha Honor Medical Society. … She is in private practice of Orthopaedic and Spinal Surgery, has served on the Board of the Arizona Medical Association, and she is a lifelong advocate for a patient’s right to choose their own medical care without government intervention, which she discusses in her book Surviving the Medical Meltdown.
Dr. Richard Urso graduated from the University of Texas Houston School of Medicine with highest honors. He completed a residency in ophthalmology then fellowships in Ocular Oncology and Oculofacial surgery. He joined the University of Texas and led the ocular trauma team at both Hermann hospital and LBJ hospital for more than a decade. He frequently presented at Grand rounds and won three best teacher awards. He also spent considerable time in basic science research and developed a novel wound healing model. Dr.Urso patented a treatment which eventually became FDA approved for the treatment of neurotic keratitis. He has a special interest in drug re purposing.
Dr. Scott Barbour is the founder and owner of Barbour Orthopaedics & Spine with five clinics and a surgery center in Atlanta, Georgia. Dr. Barbour is fellowship-trained in sports medicine (Palo Alto medical foundation). Dr. Barbour has been a team physician for several professional sports teams including the Oakland Raiders, San Jose Sharks, USA Rugby Teams. He is currently the team physician for the Atlanta franchise of Major League Rugby professional rugby team. Dr. Barbour has appeared on numerous radio and television shows. He has published articles and book chapters on Orthopedic surgery and has been an editor for American Journal of Sports Medicine. He currently co-hosts “The Doctors Lounge” podcast on America’s Web Radio and is a board member of Docs4PatientCare foundation.
Dr. Kirstin Held is a board-certified ophthalmologist and ophthalmic surgeon. She is a Phi Beta Kappa Graduate from the University of Texas at Austin and received her medical degree from the University of Texas Medical School at San Antonio, where she was elected to AOA… Dr. Held has had numerous articles published, including in the Washington Times, Houston Chronicle, The Hill, Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons and Dr. Carson’s American Currentsee.
The source of this list.
——
P.S. Barrie Zwicker is a Canadian journalist who, before becoming independent, worked at several newspapers in Canada and the United States, including The Globe and Mail, Toronto Star, Vancouver Province, Sudbury Star, Detroit News, and Lansing State Journal. He was once asked the following question: "Do you take offense at the term 'conspiracy theorist'?" He replied: "I welcome being called a conspiracy theorist, as this exposes the intellectual bankruptcy of the person applying it and provides me with an opportunity to point out that intellectual bankruptcy."
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It seems a bit cheap and timid to keep wanting to post these nonsense posts without being willing to support them when others want to discuss it. You don't need to be able to change someone's mind in order to have a well though out discussion. When you make these comments, it's like having a birthday party, getting your presents and showing off your cake, then throwing everyone out saying it's just all for you. If you truly had conviction in what you posted, then you should be willing to challenge that. If the idea of defending your position is so scary, then it probably isn't that strong of a position to begin with. Lastly, when you make those types of comments, you really shouldn't be talking about someone elses "intellectual bankruptcy" without looking in the mirror.
As for your subject matter, I looked up the first one Dr. Gold. Funny how hospitals are going out of their way to distance themselves from her. She was even fired for promoting an unproven drug. And having degrees or decades of experience doesn't equate to not being fallible. You also have to understand, this Dr. Gold, the founder of this group was a emergency physician, not someone who specializes in the areas she talks about. It's like going to a podiatrist for advice when you need to to talk to a gynecologist. Being a doctor in one field does not make you an expert or even knowledgeable in another. Nor does being a Dr equate to being smart in other areas as well.
Hell right off the bat she's talking about a mask can't stop a virus because it's too small. You don't have to be an expert to understand that the masks help slow the spread of droplets. It's those droplets that the virus attaches itself to and yes, the mask can help prevent the spread of it when used properly. None of this below the nose and chin diaper nonsense, of course it won't work then. Masks are more about you not spreading it as opposed to you getting it while breathing in.
No Evidence That Doctor Group in Viral Video Got Near COVID 'Front Lines'
Who are the physicians behind America's Frontline Doctors?
www.medpagetoday.com
No Evidence That Doctor Group in Viral Video Got Near COVID 'Front Lines'
We have a 2 week firebreak lockdown starting in Wales at 6pm this Friday. My word it’s needed, the cases are shooting up here. My friend who I spoke about hasn’t got his sense of taste or smell back after his diagnosis. He was told it could be months or he may never get it back, but he’s alive which is the main thing. Where I work we’ve had 3 cases now and the local secondary school has closed for the foreseeable as 3 members of staff and 20 children tested positive. It’s scary to see the daily death toll creeping up again after months of us thinking we were on top of it. People became complacent and doubted the severity I think and we’ve got all the hard work to do once again. It’ll be a long winter.
Twice now people have been dumb in the shop:
First a woman trying to "Just squeeze past me and the police two meters behind me" on the shops one way system going the wrong way. "But I am waring a mask!" didn't seem to fly with the police.
Second a man with a few kids, he was standing at the ice cream so no one could pass then when he did move he got too close to the person in front and started going on about how he is a maths teacher and 2 meters and 6 feet is arbitrary.. well that might be so, but there are lines on the ground and of course he was in one of the AirBNB in the village so received a visit from the police.
This is in the past two weeks and it seems even on the streets people are no longer giving each other as wide a berth as required. So aye the virus is going to kill more people .
First a woman trying to "Just squeeze past me and the police two meters behind me" on the shops one way system going the wrong way. "But I am waring a mask!" didn't seem to fly with the police.
Second a man with a few kids, he was standing at the ice cream so no one could pass then when he did move he got too close to the person in front and started going on about how he is a maths teacher and 2 meters and 6 feet is arbitrary.. well that might be so, but there are lines on the ground and of course he was in one of the AirBNB in the village so received a visit from the police.
This is in the past two weeks and it seems even on the streets people are no longer giving each other as wide a berth as required. So aye the virus is going to kill more people .
I do appreciate you taking the time to respond, with that, you're on a forum which is for discussing topics. As for your "support", you didn't support it, you essentially copypasta someone elses work and pretend it stands on it's own grounds when it clearly doesn't. Your last video, which I watched, doesn't actually present supporting evidence to what they were claiming. So where is the good in making unsupported claims to begin with? If your goal is to change people's minds, how can that be done without said support? You can't.
You say you have years of research experience but clearly you're not researching those that you're putting forth as your evidence. You've posted multiple videos now with Dr.s that are not experts in the fields they are talking about. How does that make sense?
Ill keep it simple. What's more likely, that the ENTIRE worldwide medical community is wrong or that the people you're holding up as support for the narrative you want to accept, who are not actual experts on the subjects they speak of, who present no actual supporting evidence to support their own claims and who can't even get the backing of the worldwide medical community or even get backing from those in the fields they are referring to are right? Here's a hint, it's not the latter of the two.