I don’t mean to be insensitive, But if you’re overweight and asthmatic, it’s like a death trap if you have C/19. The problem what I’m hearing from some local health officials if you’re in a hospital, is you have to lie on your stomach When on medical bed, which broadens your lungs per this method for easier breathing while on a ventilator, but if you’re obese, it makes it extremely difficult to breathe, and then add if you’re asthmatic, it’s like a death sentence. It’s been another statistic we’re seeing in our community given those two factors I mentioned above. It’s unfortunate, but a stark reality of the dangers.
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COVID/Coronavirus non-political DISCUSSION thread
- Thread starter hawkeye_a
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Two interesting developments as of today:
1.) The world health organization is recommending that individuals do not attend ‘routine’ teeth cleanings due to a rise in cases, which is suspected that’s causing Uprise given the procedures that dental offices are using, allegedly are reporting infections.
2.) Marcus cinema theaters announced in my area that they’re opening all Locations with no attendance restrictions for seating, while ‘practicing social distancing’. So how does one ‘practice social distancing’ if they’re opening movie theaters to full capacity? That’s Called -one step forward two steps back-. And highly unsafe.
1.) The world health organization is recommending that individuals do not attend ‘routine’ teeth cleanings due to a rise in cases, which is suspected that’s causing Uprise given the procedures that dental offices are using, allegedly are reporting infections.
2.) Marcus cinema theaters announced in my area that they’re opening all Locations with no attendance restrictions for seating, while ‘practicing social distancing’. So how does one ‘practice social distancing’ if they’re opening movie theaters to full capacity? That’s Called -one step forward two steps back-. And highly unsafe.
There are a couple of theaters in my area that turned the outside into a drive in by playing movies on the side of the building.
Based on some discussions of that recommendation it seems like that it's somewhat broad as it is based more on the assumption that in many places dental offices might not have and use as much PPE and make use of as much other protective equipment and additional cleaning procedures as would be needed to further minimize the risk.
And that’s called being smart and efficient In your area, while still producing business. What Marcus Theaters is doing is completely asinine. Again, I pose the question to them, how do you ‘socially distance‘ if you’re willing to allow max capacity for seating? Whoever made that decision in upper management/exec. Level should be immediately terminated.
I think there’s contingencies to every dental office. The dental office that I visit, is one of the best in my region with some of the newest equipment, it’s always clean, organized and highly reviewed. I suspect that there are some dental offices that probably don’t take the measures that they should, but the -world health organization- also mentioned the Possible uptick is from ‘procedures that produce aerosol spray from patients mouths.’
WHO Is Now Asking People to Avoid Routine Dental Work. Here's Why
The World Health Organization said Tuesday that routine, non-essential dental work should be delayed until COVID-19 transmission rates drop sufficiently, cautioning against procedures that produce aerosol spray from patients' mouths.
www.sciencealert.com
The-Real-Deal82
macrumors P6
That sounds ridiculous. Hypothetically now, in the UK under previous guidelines it would mean 2 seats free between customers and no passing and I would imagine we’d all agree with that logic. However recently developments here advise social distancing but they have removed the actual distance metric! It’s been done rather slyly and I’ve noticed in many places social distancing isn’t being highlighted or advised at all.
Our supermarkets still have signage with one way aisles and recorded messages outlining the guidelines for the store but it’s totally ignored. My wife and I were in a shop a couple of weeks back and the centre aisle was arrowed clearly as one way, yet people were walking against the stream of people and didn’t care. I got told to ‘eff off’ when I gestured to a guy for walking towards me. I’m avoiding shops as much as possible and will continue to buy as much as I can online.
Yup, I actually don’t grocery shop at all. It’s unfortunate there are chodes that can’t properly wear a mask, follow simple direction, and quite frankly, I’m shocked they even know how to park their car properly in a parking lot.😁 I have everything delivered right to my house and I also use a secondary delivery service called ‘Schwans’. (They deliver ‘premium‘ anything you can think of.)
Believe me, I’m not against going out in public, but I don’t have time to deal with people that can’t grasp the simple concept of following directions.
What I suspect it’s partially happening with C/19, is ‘mental fatigue’ is setting in for the weak-minded. All these rules, regulations,procedures/policies, is forcing people to be ‘overloaded’ To the where they don’t care one way or the other anymore because they can’t process all these radical changes that are happening every day in our communities. And then of course add-in the ramifications for those who have other health disorders that are contributing to the fact that they can’t follow rules, put them at greater risk on a ventilator in a hospital. Be that it may, that’s their problem and so be it.
Gregg2
macrumors 604
@RP There is certainly some of what you describe as "mental fatigue" but there are also lots of stubborn people that had no intention of following rules that restrict their behavior in even a small way from the very beginning. There's another s-word for that too.
Oh definitely. There’s that too. I just suspect it’s dominant that when the media, and all these incoming changes within our health system regarding C/19 every day, people generally just can’t handle all the conformity. Therefore they just mentally ‘shut down‘ and stop caring. But you do have those who are radical, that refuse to wear a mask. And then when you take a movie theater that’s preparing to open with max capacity and you have that one individual who says ‘I’m not wearing a mask‘, they’re part of the problem, not the solution. They should be dealt with accordingly for whatever they have coming at them.
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
I've not popped into this thread in a while, but I wanted to provide some perspective.
I live in Massachusetts, as many can see by my location 😉 We like NY was a hot spot back in the spring, but we turned it around. I don't say this arrogantly, or with pride but I'm thankful that we did, especially as we see other states struggle.
The state had voted to delay the start of school until mid september to give school districts time to plan and get their ducks in a row. Our local department of education offered 3 categories, in school, hybrid and remote only.
my small town has been incurring infections every day, while not high (ranging from 2 to 7) has pushed us into the red, given the infection rate per 100,000 people. Our rate is high enough to warrant our classification.
So now, instead of the hybrid option that my town opted (out of the three), they re-voted to start the school year remote. Given what we're seeing in many of the southern states, I have to say that I'm pleased.
Not everything in Mass is unicorns and rainbows, the college students are coming back and one thing that we're noticing those teens/twenty somethings care very little about social distancing. I fully expect us to have sufficient high numbers in Sept and October to see our reopening be pulled back to some degree.
I live in Massachusetts, as many can see by my location 😉 We like NY was a hot spot back in the spring, but we turned it around. I don't say this arrogantly, or with pride but I'm thankful that we did, especially as we see other states struggle.
The state had voted to delay the start of school until mid september to give school districts time to plan and get their ducks in a row. Our local department of education offered 3 categories, in school, hybrid and remote only.
my small town has been incurring infections every day, while not high (ranging from 2 to 7) has pushed us into the red, given the infection rate per 100,000 people. Our rate is high enough to warrant our classification.
So now, instead of the hybrid option that my town opted (out of the three), they re-voted to start the school year remote. Given what we're seeing in many of the southern states, I have to say that I'm pleased.
Not everything in Mass is unicorns and rainbows, the college students are coming back and one thing that we're noticing those teens/twenty somethings care very little about social distancing. I fully expect us to have sufficient high numbers in Sept and October to see our reopening be pulled back to some degree.
D.T.
macrumors G4
Underlined == Ugh, yes.
I am so glad that way early into this, we decided to explore the county virtual school, it's highly regarded, has limited capacity, has screening processes, and the little G was totally into it. She's a bit of a independent type student anyway, heck she's been doing algebra lessons online over the summer to prep for 7th grade.
Anyway, it was one stress point to be able to set aside, vs. worrying about what her middle school, here in Florida, was/wasn't going to do, how well they were going to do it, right up to opening, it's still a bit of a **** show (that fortunately, we're not part of ...)
The kids started school this week in our city and county, everything is going to be virtual for the first 9 weeks, I have a feeling that time will increase as during the two weeks leading up to the school start we had positive cases in the teachers setting up rooms in no less then a dozen schools. If we can't set up rooms with the 40-50 people in the building without a small outbreak, I don't think they will be able to have 100s of kids in the building and function safely. We are masks in public and masks in business state these days and the numbers are better. As home to 5 of the 74 schools still thinking about playing football this year (the other 600+ teams Jr Colleges, Division II, Division 3, and 56 of the 130 have all cancelled or postposed to Spring) given the actions of the students at Alabama last week and at Auburn on Monday, I am guessing we wont see a season of football this year. Alabama is doing better then Georgia, Florida, Texas, Louisiana or Mississippi and that group of 6 states is more than half of the teams thinking they can still play. My guess is in person classes will get cancelled in the next 30 days at most universities and then they will probably cancel football. That has only happened twice in the history of College Football, first time in 1918 because of Spanish Flu and the winddown of WW1, the second was in 1943 because of WW2. This time its because people don't want to wear a mask and really poor handling of the epidemic. The data that let to the Big 10 and Pac-12 dropping football, just isnt good, the Big 10 has 9 football players and 1 basketball player with enough damage to their heart from Covid-19 they probably will never play again, Pac-12 says they have similar numbers, but didnt elaborate. But those are sobering numbers. We have 20 or so players most likely all under 25 years old, all elite athletes who Covid has ended there career. That's the actual facts of this disease, that and 175K dead in the US at least (and that number is likely much higher). Things aren't back to normal here, idiots are going to bars because Elected idiots are letting them, and 1000s are dying of this disease every single week.
-Tig
-Tig
Even without this WHO recommendation there is no way i am going to visit a dental hygienist to get my teeth cleaned. I am 3 months past due on my schedule for a cleaning but more concerned about the potential consequences.
bunnspecial
macrumors G3
Some Monday morning musings-
Anecdotally, I've known a handful of people over the past few weeks who have tested COVID positive. All the recent cases I've known of basically felt like they had a bad cold, although they had some of the typical COVID systems for a short period of time. One recently(who is actually a nurse in a COVID unit) said he basically had a new symptom every day that only lasted for a day-fever first day, loss of taste/smell for a day, and just generally feeling run down/not well for a week or so. That's not to downplay the really bad cases, but I seem to be hearing of fewer really bad cases now.
The above is all anecdotal, but looking at some numbers seems to back that up at least on the surface. Per Worldometer( https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us ), the first peak of daily new cases in the US back in the spring was April 10th at 32,471 cases(7 day moving average for all these numbers I'm about to give), and that was followed by the highest by the highest daily death rate of 22,256 on April 21st. That 11 day window on that lines up well with what we know about the typical disease progression.
More recently, the US saw a peak daily new case count(again 7 day average) of 68,621 on July 24th. Daily new cases-for now-have declined since then to 43,135 since yesterday. The most recent daily death count, however, was 1,169 on August 1st. Deaths have fallen off slightly since then and look to be on a downward trend, but with the much higher case count you would expect a sharp increase in daily deaths. Considering that it's been a month since the daily new case peak, we would expect based on past trends for deaths to have been dramatically higher 2 weeks ago or so. That hasn't been the case.
There are a few explanations I can think of. We have a few things going for us-testing is SIGNIFICANTLY more available, as as I found out a few weeks ago if you present to your doctor with any kind of upper respiratory symptoms, you're going to get swabbed. In March and April, you were basically only going to get a swab if they were almost sure you had it(and even then maybe not). We also know something more about treating severe cases, even if there's not a "silver bullet" treatment.
Another possible explanation, and one I've been trying to read about, is that a mutated strain has become dominant in the US. It is suggested that this new strain is more easily transmissible, but also somewhat less deadly. This COULD explain things. As a not-virologist or epidemiologist, but someone who does understand at least a bit about this, everything I know about viruses is their primary goal is to replicate, and viruses need hosts to replicate. A virus that kills its host at a high rate is not a great virus-this is a lot of the reason that SARS and MERS basically burned out in a few months. A mutation that makes it less deadly(less likely to kill the host) but more easily transmitted is a "better" virus from an evolution standpoint.
In any case, here's an article that examines the second theory, although as research is rapidly evolving on things we'll see what reviewers actually think of this publication.
Anecdotally, I've known a handful of people over the past few weeks who have tested COVID positive. All the recent cases I've known of basically felt like they had a bad cold, although they had some of the typical COVID systems for a short period of time. One recently(who is actually a nurse in a COVID unit) said he basically had a new symptom every day that only lasted for a day-fever first day, loss of taste/smell for a day, and just generally feeling run down/not well for a week or so. That's not to downplay the really bad cases, but I seem to be hearing of fewer really bad cases now.
The above is all anecdotal, but looking at some numbers seems to back that up at least on the surface. Per Worldometer( https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us ), the first peak of daily new cases in the US back in the spring was April 10th at 32,471 cases(7 day moving average for all these numbers I'm about to give), and that was followed by the highest by the highest daily death rate of 22,256 on April 21st. That 11 day window on that lines up well with what we know about the typical disease progression.
More recently, the US saw a peak daily new case count(again 7 day average) of 68,621 on July 24th. Daily new cases-for now-have declined since then to 43,135 since yesterday. The most recent daily death count, however, was 1,169 on August 1st. Deaths have fallen off slightly since then and look to be on a downward trend, but with the much higher case count you would expect a sharp increase in daily deaths. Considering that it's been a month since the daily new case peak, we would expect based on past trends for deaths to have been dramatically higher 2 weeks ago or so. That hasn't been the case.
There are a few explanations I can think of. We have a few things going for us-testing is SIGNIFICANTLY more available, as as I found out a few weeks ago if you present to your doctor with any kind of upper respiratory symptoms, you're going to get swabbed. In March and April, you were basically only going to get a swab if they were almost sure you had it(and even then maybe not). We also know something more about treating severe cases, even if there's not a "silver bullet" treatment.
Another possible explanation, and one I've been trying to read about, is that a mutated strain has become dominant in the US. It is suggested that this new strain is more easily transmissible, but also somewhat less deadly. This COULD explain things. As a not-virologist or epidemiologist, but someone who does understand at least a bit about this, everything I know about viruses is their primary goal is to replicate, and viruses need hosts to replicate. A virus that kills its host at a high rate is not a great virus-this is a lot of the reason that SARS and MERS basically burned out in a few months. A mutation that makes it less deadly(less likely to kill the host) but more easily transmitted is a "better" virus from an evolution standpoint.
In any case, here's an article that examines the second theory, although as research is rapidly evolving on things we'll see what reviewers actually think of this publication.
Then I suggest perhaps educate yourself and check with your dental office on what procedures they have in place. I just spoke with my dental office today and they explained to me that they have an air purifier system that was installed that purifies the air every 7/8 minutes, which each room has its own separate purifier, which is not shared amongst the other rooms to Cross contaminate. Also, they have the visitor place a mouth shield over their mouth During the cleaning, which aids in trapping any aerosols from escaping into the air.
It was also explained to me that once C/19 was in my region back in March, my office was already on top of making the changes immediately given they realize the potential for concern with Aerosols. Which to me, it’s very comforting, knowing that they were looking ahead realizing What changes need to be made today versus tomorrow.
Now, I think it’s worth noting that it was also explained me that every dental office may or may not have the same procedures in place. This isn’t about bragging rights, but my dental office actually is one of the higher rated offices in my area with some of the latest technology and equipment, so I would expect them to be taking the necessary precautions, where other dental offices may not have the same practices in place. That’s why it’s best to find out, educate yourself and ask questions with your local hygienist So you have a better understanding.
But I also had my own concerns, just like other people do. But the only way to actually have a full understanding,is if you have to address your concerns with your local office, and they should more than happy to talk to you about what regiments they have in place. If you’re not comfortable with what they actually are offering, then I would suggest switching offices that are far more proactive in protection.
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LizKat
macrumors 604
Yah here in this part of upstate New York the college scene has been a mixed bag.
Not all college kids are incapable of compliance with social distancing and mask wearing... Hartwick College is in the same upstate NY county as SUNY Oneonta, but Hartwick experienced only a dozen covid cases, and will resume in person classes this week for most of those desiring to attend in person.
Hartwick College to resume in-person classes
Hartwick College announced Monday it will return to offering face-to-face as well as remote instruction on Wednesday, Sept. 16, after a voluntary and precautionary two-week, remote-only period.
Meanwhile a relative handful of SUNY-O kids essentially blew it for everyone in their college for the whole term, via attendance at a couple of unauthorized parties... which caused a spike of over 700 cases. That campus is now shut for the term, except for the 20 or so kids at the tail end of the spike who are still isolated or quarantined.
No new COVID cases reported at SUNY Oneonta
There were no new cases of COVID-19 at SUNY Oneonta, the college reported Sunday, Sept. 13. Earlier Sunday, Hartwick College reported one new case.
If I may add to this thread, I think mental fatigue is becoming a huge factor. Ultimately, it's the "human behavior" variable that has a significant say in controlling the pandemic. The elderly are tired of staying indoors, of their curtailed mobility. In some cases, the latter has exacerbated co-morbidities such as diabetes and obesity. So it's not as if we can let our guards down. Many realize this, but it is also difficult for them to follow through. On the other hand, some have pinned their hopes on a vaccine, and though we just might have a safe, effective vaccine, we're not sure if the virus might mutate and become seasonal, albeit less fatal. Studies have shown that antibodies don't last for any set duration--varies from person to person, so natural exposure might not be the ultimate answer either. The best thing we can do right now is physically distance ourselves; some doctors suggest wearing masks at home if ppl happen to live with the elderly in close quarters. This is getting tedious for many people, and we should recognize as much without vilifying their fatigue. It also helps to talk of this in terms of the age old sociological tenet: that rights and duties go hand in hand. If we want our civil liberties restored and return to "normal" as we knew it pre-Covid, we have the duty of ensuring mask-wearing, hand washing, distancing, and thorough hygiene. There is simply no other way out 🙂
The-Real-Deal82
macrumors P6
Back in lockdown here in my part of Wales. It’s weird as on my way to work I start off in Blaenau Gwent, pass through Caerphilly and Merthyr Boroughs before arriving in Rhondda Cynon Taff.
The annoying thing is the spikes in all these countries have been pinpointed to groups of people ignoring social distancing. In Brynmawr a group of boys went on a pub crawl and several are now positive for the virus. In Merthyr a large group went to Ibiza and came back with several testing positive and in Rhondda a rugby club ignored distancing measures and opened up as normal, organising parties and events at the club causing an outbreak!! People are so thick it’s unbelievable and it just goes to show you can’t trust the general public to behave and follow guidelines.
My daughters primary school had to send out a letter yesterday to parents after an abusive confrontation in the school yard after a parent was reminded of the 2 metre rule and decided to threaten and abuse the head mistress! The parent has now been banned from the school premises for life and the police are involved lol. You just can’t make it up
The annoying thing is the spikes in all these countries have been pinpointed to groups of people ignoring social distancing. In Brynmawr a group of boys went on a pub crawl and several are now positive for the virus. In Merthyr a large group went to Ibiza and came back with several testing positive and in Rhondda a rugby club ignored distancing measures and opened up as normal, organising parties and events at the club causing an outbreak!! People are so thick it’s unbelievable and it just goes to show you can’t trust the general public to behave and follow guidelines.
My daughters primary school had to send out a letter yesterday to parents after an abusive confrontation in the school yard after a parent was reminded of the 2 metre rule and decided to threaten and abuse the head mistress! The parent has now been banned from the school premises for life and the police are involved lol. You just can’t make it up
Gregg2
macrumors 604
We have two pandemics going at the same time. The second one is IGNORANCE-20.
Back in lockdown here in my part of Wales. It’s weird as on my way to work I start off in Blaenau Gwent, pass through Caerphilly and Merthyr Boroughs before arriving in Rhondda Cynon Taff.
The annoying thing is the spikes in all these countries have been pinpointed to groups of people ignoring social distancing. In Brynmawr a group of boys went on a pub crawl and several are now positive for the virus. In Merthyr a large group went to Ibiza and came back with several testing positive and in Rhondda a rugby club ignored distancing measures and opened up as normal, organising parties and events at the club causing an outbreak!! People are so thick it’s unbelievable and it just goes to show you can’t trust the general public to behave and follow guidelines.
My daughters primary school had to send out a letter yesterday to parents after an abusive confrontation in the school yard after a parent was reminded of the 2 metre rule and decided to threaten and abuse the head mistress! The parent has now been banned from the school premises for life and the police are involved lol. You just can’t make it up
In my region, it’s these idiotic (I’d prefer to use stronger language here, but I won’t) college students who are screwing things up right now. They’re having parties, not social distancing and are a Direct result of our increase in cases. We were actually doing really well in my area, and now just a matter of over three weeks, our cases are up over 15% because of these knob-headed students.
I follow a local infectious disease Doctor Who puts out blogs regularly and he mentioned that our hospital rate is actually at a higher number with younger individuals ranging from the age of 20 to 25, which is indicative that it’s college students pushing hospitals to capacity. (Also, he’s usually really neutral in his blogs that he writes, but he was more aggressive with his tone, given his frustration is with these college campuses losing control.)
Aside from masking and social distancing, avoiding crowds is so crucial, and there’s a reason like every event in my state was canceled in the last six months, and you think some ‘intelligent’ college students would be able to discern why grouping is a bad thing, but yet, they can’t grasp the most simple concept. Amazing.
The-Real-Deal82
macrumors P6
Its exactly the same here, 20-29 year olds appear to be the worst group for ignoring social distancing and spreading the virus. I can understand it’s frustrating but we are all going through it. It’s so surreal. Universities here are banning students from having parties and going to pubs, although I wonder how they can enforce it? I have a feeling the Christmas season is going to be completely unmanageable.
going back to the old days. Seems strange... Its 'illeagel' to have outdoor theater, in some countries, but its takes a pandemic to make it ok for legit move theaters to do this..
Unfortunately, there’s no way to enforce someone following protocol for pandemic measures (Even local law enforcement doesn’t have the resources/time to do so). But the way I look at it, the ramifications are a lot more serious, especially when some have underlying health conditions with asthma, obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes, etc. So for those who want to jeopardize their health or put others at risk, it just shows how unintelligent people can be.
Even as a restaurant investor on the side, masking is required 100% of the time and most/if not all orders is actually ‘to go’ for the customer to eliminate any in-house seating. I said it many times over, in order to ultimately slow down the infection rate, it takes everybody’s participation, and if a specific person can’t wear a mask for health reasons, then stay home the best you can to protect yourself and others.
The-Real-Deal82
macrumors P6
Three of our close friends are now self isolating and have tested positive for COVID in the last 24 hours. My county has the highest infection rate in the UK. My daughter is best friends with the daughter of the infected family and they share a class together so it’s a game of wait and see.
One of the friends told us his symptoms are a cough and it feels like a toddler is sat permanently on his chest. Hopefully he’s over the worst of it as he’s felt rough since Saturday. A hospital about 15 miles away from us has three wards full of admitted people and they are stretched to capacity for the amount of ICU units available. To anybody who says this isn’t as bad as the media suggest or think it’s just like the flu, you couldn’t be any more wrong.
One of the friends told us his symptoms are a cough and it feels like a toddler is sat permanently on his chest. Hopefully he’s over the worst of it as he’s felt rough since Saturday. A hospital about 15 miles away from us has three wards full of admitted people and they are stretched to capacity for the amount of ICU units available. To anybody who says this isn’t as bad as the media suggest or think it’s just like the flu, you couldn’t be any more wrong.