Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Criminal Investigation of Lost Next-Generation iPhone Spurred by Apple Requests
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Gray Powell committed the biggest and most idiotic mistake in this entire situation.
Although, it was his birthday, he must have had hundreds of other things on his mind.
You can place a value on a prototype. You can value it at the cost to research, engineer, and produce.
"Finders keepers" is not a legal defense, especially when there's a legal statute indicating the steps to follow. Even if there wasn't, there are common sense statutes on turning it over to the police if you don't know who the owner is. The thing is, they knew who the owner was. Instead of contacting him, they [as another poster so astutely put it] went on a well-publicized joy ride with it. They flaunted their violation of the law, and now they have to face the consequences of it.
This is the real world, not the school yard.
"Finders keepers" is not a legal defense, especially when there's a legal statute indicating the steps to follow. Even if there wasn't, there are common sense statutes on turning it over to the police if you don't know who the owner is. The thing is, they knew who the owner was. Instead of contacting him, they [as another poster so astutely put it] went on a well-publicized joy ride with it. They flaunted their violation of the law, and now they have to face the consequences of it.
This is the real world, not the school yard.
I think a lot of people in general are making way too big of a deal out of all this. Let's look at the simple facts:
1. An Apple engineer left "by accident" his prototype iPhone at a bar. He represent's Apple as an employee. Therefore, it's safe to say "Apple left a prototype by accident at a bar." (the employee signed an NDA and is 100% liable for the prototype, so this CAN be said about Apple, truthfully)
2. Gizmodo purchased the phone for $5,000. Of course they're going to try and get their hands on it, it's their job! Just like photographers taking pictures of celebrities. (paparazzi)
3. Jason Chen's house was illegally searched. This is very clear cut from reading simple California laws. He's a journalist - he's protected. It wouldn't surprise me if Gizmodo or Chen himself sue's the state of CA for an illegal search, and wins!
Now - What's the issue here? I don't see why everyone makes such a big deal of this. This phone is a prototype, and cannot be bought on the public market. You can't assign a monetary value to it, legally. Therefore, you can't claim that it costs more than $100 to justify the stolen property CA law. For all we know, it could cost $99. Sure, Apple might know that it costs $1,300 to produce the prototype, but that doesn't matter one bit. It's not a publicly sold item, therefore the "finder" has no way of knowing the true value. The difference here - is that regardless of what anyone "says" - the market value is not published. Therefore, the "finder" cannot determine it's legal monetary value.
In my honest opinion, I do not see this as being a PR stunt or anything like that of any kind. What happened here is very simple - Apple made a mistake, their new iPhone prototype was leaked, and now they're trying everything in their power to show it "wasn't their fault", because "Apple doesn't make mistakes". Guess what Jobs? You ****ed up.
An example of this is that they're claiming it's stolen. It's one thing if someone broke into the Apple campus and physically stole the phone, but this guy left it for hours at a random bar in CA. Get real Apple, no one is going to buy your "stolen phone" ********. At least, a real jury won't.
Despite what any CA law states - in the end, a jury will see that the old "finders keepers" rule is appropriate here. Apple screwed up, and they need to pay the price. Not Gizmodo.
I think a lot of people in general are making way too big of a deal out of all this. Let's look at the simple facts:
3. Jason Chen's house was illegally searched. This is very clear cut from reading simple California laws. He's a journalist - he's protected. It wouldn't surprise me if Gizmodo or Chen himself sue's the state of CA for an illegal search, and wins!
AGAIN - Journalist shield laws are there to protect journalists' sources from being investigated, they ARE NOT there to protect the journalists from committing crimes (and being investigated for such) themselves. Whether Chen is considered a journalist or not has no significance whatsoever because he isn't protecting a source who may have committed a crime, he is protecting himself. Big difference.
Actually that's one of the first things that ran though my mind when the story first broke. Not that an Apple engineer was assaulted, but that they were targeted. I'd imagine that part of town is crawling with Apple engineers. Some of whom work on the iPhone project. Someone with enough of a motive (money) and possibly intel could target an engineer testing a phone in the field.
You may remember during the pre-iPad launch Tablet Rumor Mania period, there was a company offering six figures for someone to get a shot (or get a hold?) of the iPad in the wild. Apple legal asked them to knock it off.
There have been pre-launch reports/photos of Apple engineers field testing next-generation iPhones and what turned out to be the iPad on the BART system.
The chain of events events here still seem VERY random and lucky for Gizmodo. And it all starts with taking the phone from the bar. Anybody that I know (including myself) that finds a phone in a bar does not leave with the phone. They give it to the bartender. It's THE most logical thing to do. That the phone that left the bar just happened to be an iPhone prototype...strikes me as quite strange.
....Unless you knew it could potentially be a prototype
I find it interesting that you find it interesting in some sinister way.
Let's see, IF you were in the computer business and you wanted your local law enforcement agencies to understand the correlations between your business and criminal law, WOULDN'T YOU BE A PART OF THE ADVISORY COUNCIL?
From REACT's website:
A partnership of 17 local, state, and federal agencies, with the Santa Clara County District Attorney's Office designated as the lead agency. The REACT Task Force is one of five in the State of California and authorized under California Penal Code 13848.
All Agents of the React Task Force are either California Peace Officers and/or U.S. Federal Agents
REACT was established in 1997 by the California State Department of Justice, in response to both public and industry concerns over the spread of new types of crime directly tied to our increasingly computer-oriented economy and widespread use of the Internet. High tech companies and industry councils provide specialized training, liaison personnel and internal support for task force investigations.
By creating a multi-jurisdictional team that combines resources and specific investigative skills, along with federal jurisdiction to conduct investigations across state and international lines, and a close working partnership with the high tech industry, REACT has been able to arrest and prosecute a wide range of criminal offenders and provide a more effective level of service to local communities and the high tech business community.
My predictions for the next few months:
Chen will get absolved of any wrong doing and no charges will be filed which will infuriate 80% of this forum.
Apple will look like bullies in the court of public opinion and their influence on REACT will be investigated and become a topic in the media.
Fanboys with names like "apple'sbiggestfan" will continue to call for the execution of all at Gizmodo for violating their iPhone 4g virginity and keep posting statutes to show how a horrible crime was committed and insisting the world will never recover from this violation.
Steve will get new internal organs from some Thai children after trading their families iPads for them so he can continue to command a legion of worshippers into the next decade.
Chen will get absolved of any wrong doing and no charges will be filed which will infuriate 80% of this forum.
Apple will look like bullies in the court of public opinion and their influence on REACT will be investigated and become a topic in the media.
Fanboys with names like "apple'sbiggestfan" will continue to call for the execution of all at Gizmodo for violating their iPhone 4g virginity and keep posting statutes to show how a horrible crime was committed and insisting the world will never recover from this violation.
Steve will get new internal organs from some Thai children after trading their families iPads for them so he can continue to command a legion of worshippers into the next decade.
The issue whether or not the search warrant was valid is still up for debate. Some legal opinions are that he's protected by the California shield law under any circumstances. But other legal opinions believe that he is not protected by the shield law if they are investigating criminal activity believed to be committed by Jason. This story contains just such an opinion:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20003539-37.html
Mark
Wow there are a lot of people who seem to think they are the final authority on definitions. Found vs stolen....blogger vs journalist....
Anyone remember Jason O'Grady? He came across some inside information about an Apple product, Apple subpoenaed his ISP, tried to get them to take down his website and source of employment, and also subpoenaed O'Grady himself in order to get the name of the source who leaked the information.
I guess Apple shouldn't give top secret prototypes to irresponsible, young programmers who are bound to leave it somewhere.
What happened to the new iPad being tested only in a dark environment with all windows blackened? Why isn't that same procedure shown with the new iPhone?
According to the New York Times, "Some Apple workers in the most critical product-testing rooms must cover up devices with black cloaks when they are working on them, and turn on a red warning light when devices are unmasked so that everyone knows to be extra-careful, [former employee] said."
I realize that Chembox is a synonym for methlab, and that seems to have affected your thought processes, but you might want to note a previous story on macrumors which indicated that S. Jobs himself approved all of the testers.
Pretty sure that S. Jobs takes his job seriously, as do those under him, which coincidentally is everyone else at Apple. Since there is no definitive statement about whether the phone was lost by the engineer or whether it was stolen off of his person, I'll wait judgement.
Noone has refuted it. That's my viewpoint on it. Do I fully trust Gizmodo? No, of course not. But at the same time, if there had been other circumstances, I'm fairly certain we would have heard about them by now.
The fact that he went and reported the phone as stolen isn't a contradiction of Gizmodo's statements either. I think anyone, in a situation where they left behind an item only to later find out that it was gone, would report the item as stolen if no contact had been made by anyone to return it.
It reminds me of when I was in grade school, and lost my wallet at the grocery store. I was sitting on the edge of the magazine stand while my mother shopped, and the edge of the stand ended up forcing my wallet out. I never realized it was missing until later that day, but the grocery store hadn't had any wallet turned in. We filed a police report (although looking back at it now, there really wasn't too much of value in the wallet, but eh, it made me feel better as a kid), but never heard anything with regards to it. The wallet did have a photo ID with name, address, telephone number, etc., so it could have been returned.
Ultimately, a month or so later, the local Post Office contacted us, telling me that a package was waiting for me. The package had my wallet, with everyone of value (except the ID) gone. Money, pictures, etc.
You didn't finish reading my post. The point is, it doesn't matter. Those laws don't protect him whether he's considered a journalist or not.
I'm mind reading that he was pretty stoked to be employed by and working at Apple. Being stressed working there is also a mind read. I'd suggest that if working their was stressful you wouldn't see the level of product development, new ideas, etc coming out of them. Stressful environment and that sort of product don't usually go hand in hand.
Steve's ability to create great products whether computer or animation and probably for that matter anything that he turns his hand to is damned impressive. Clearly he knows how to direct and grow a company and hire the right people.
To work within Apple at this phase of their work must be pretty damned cool.
Must be nice to be a big corporation like Apple. If something was stolen from me, could I just call up the authorities and ask them to investigate?
EDIT: Wait, yes. I could.
P.S. I’d be more mad about the take-apart of the device: there’s no way that’s OK when you know the property isn’t yours and you know whose it is.
And it’s not as though it would make sense (or even be legal) for REACT to ignore all crimes against the big computer companies. Nor would it make sense for them to avoid getting input from those big companies in the first place.
EDIT: Wait, yes. I could.
P.S. I’d be more mad about the take-apart of the device: there’s no way that’s OK when you know the property isn’t yours and you know whose it is.
And it’s not as though it would make sense (or even be legal) for REACT to ignore all crimes against the big computer companies. Nor would it make sense for them to avoid getting input from those big companies in the first place.
Folks, I think it's starting to look pretty obvious that the San Mateo District Attorney is investigating possible criminal activity by Jason Chen and Gizmodo. Several days ago, I predicted that the person who originally stole the iPhone would be not only found out, but would eventually plea bargain to testify against Jason Chen and Gizmodo. And that certainly is starting to look like how it's unfolding. The police interview him and then they get a search warrant for Chen's house.
Mark
Mark
But they wouldn't send a team to break down the door of anyone's house to investigate your stolen item. Apple got special consideration here.
Actually, Gizmodo is identified as a blog by Gawker Media. Or forget that, a guide which isn't a news outlet.
I know, the comment was meant to supplement your post
It says in the article he left it there. he was dunk, and bad things happen when under the influence.
Well, don't leave your car with the keys in it. You intentionally left a car. This Gray guy knows how valuable a prototype iPhone is, and he CHOSE to go to a bar. I wouldn't bring anything important to a bar. Even if i don't get drunk, what if someone else does, and they fight with me, and my viPhonwe falls outta my pocket, and some guy pick it up. I shouldn't be an ass, and leave bring something valuable to a place where it could get lost... not something as important as a prototype.
Soo..., is Apple going to sue Macrumors for defamation? The way things are going, that doesn't sound too far fetched.
Sure it's a prototype phone and means a lot to Apple. IMO, Apple is partially responsible for losing (ok their employee) the iphone prototype. If it's SO precious, maybe they should tell the employees not to go out drinking to the point where they lost the SO precious iphone 4g.
Sure gizmodo screwed up, but IMO Apple screwed up just as much, if not more. If something is really precious, you take precautions not to lose it.