Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Damn you Apple!
- Thread starter ckeck
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Sure. I will sign three car leases with the option of returning two of them after I complete my 1000 mile test drive run across the country, and afterwards decide which one I plan to keep.
No I can't test all I want in the store. It's impossible to get a good feel for something by spending 10 minutes, or even hours in a retail store. Plus that is not the environment I'm going to use something at all.
By your logic stores shouldn't have return policies at all unless is flat out broken because people should know ahead of time if they'll be satisfied with a product, right?
Would love to know on what moral ground I'm wrong to return an item I purchased and returned well within their own 14-day return policy (no questions asked return policy I might add).
All that said, these machines still have issues and I'll be damned if I'm paying $2k-$3k for a purchase that still has noticeable issues.
Apple has this policy for a reason, because it's better for the customer and ends with a better experience which drives more revenue per customer, more brand loyalty, etc. This does NOT hurt Apple in any way or they would do away with it. If you remember, there used to be a restocking fee which they smartly did away with a few years ago.
Also, they do not care about returns within their policy because they need some to fulfill inventory in their refurb store. They are not worried about this either as again, they have stronger margins on their refurbs than PC manufacturers have on their new units.
Get off your high horse.
----------
As I asked the other "gentleman", on what moral ground am I wrong by returning an item within the policy of said company? A policy specifically put in place to ensure a great customer experience.
Unethical...stupidest thing I've heard on this subject. Me sliding in a used/old computer in the new ones place or a shell and hoping it doesn't get caught in the process...that is unethical. Take notes.
----------
Sure. I will sign three car leases with the option of returning two of them after I complete my 1000 mile test drive run across the country, and afterwards decide which one I plan to keep.
Hell, is that was the dealership policy and I had that option you better believe I'd do something like that.
This is the same reason stores like Costco have a "lifetime" satisfaction guarantee for most items. It creates a great experience that keeps the customer coming back for more, where they ultimately spend more, become stronger brand advocates, recommend the company more, etc, etc.
Again, if everyone followed your logic and rationale, then YOU wouldn't even be able to purchase an unused, unopened box of a Mac computer or laptop because everyone else would do same: test their macs at home and return the one they plan not to keep. You should only return a computer with mechanical or software flaws, or if you seriously made an error in your purchase and MUST return it.
Yes. Apple has strong margin of profits because Apple outsourced its manufacturing process overseas to China where they pay workers a fraction of wages an American would make in the United States, so someone like you could buy three macs, take pictures of them, post them on this forum, and boast about how he plans to test them before he decides to choose which on to keep. lame.
----------
Costco has membership fees raging from $50 to $200, and they buy huge orders of products from their suppliers. Apple does not have a membership fee. You don't have to be a member to buy Apple products.
If Apple manufactured all its computers in the United States, their margin of profits would be lower, and they would not be as generous as they are. It's not like you are returning a pair of pants. You bought several thousand worth of computer with the intention of returning one or more of them.
Again, if everyone followed your logic and rationale, then YOU wouldn't even be able to purchase an unused, unopened box of a Mac computer or laptop because everyone else would do same: test their macs at home and return the one they plan not to keep. You should only return a computer with mechanical or software flaws, or if you seriously made an error in your purchase and MUST return it.
Yes. Apple has strong margin of profits because Apple outsourced its manufacturing process overseas to China where they pay workers a fraction of wages an American would make in the United States, so someone like you could buy three macs, take pictures of them, post them on this forum, and boast about how he plans to test them before he decides to choose which on to keep. lame.
Sorry, that is not how it works. I'm not sure you understand supply chain economics at all or how a specific type of customer experience results in increased profitability per customer which is better for the company, it's employees and contractors (and all other customers as well).
If someone has a return policy saying I can return something within a certain period for any reason, then it's not unethical for me to do that no matter what. You make it sound like I bought and returned 50 computers or something. I didn't return everything I bought, I kept the most expensive item (the iMac) and I returned the Retinas for now because they're ***** stuttering/lagging on scaled resolutions. I'm NOT going to keep an item that isn't working properly under any circumstance, period.
Not to mention I buy about ~20 Macs per year for myself and employees and might happen to return maybe 1-2 when something doesn't work out. It's rare that something isn't up to par.
I guess what you're saying is I'm a bad customer. I think Apple and any other person with any sort of business intelligence (or common sense for that matter) would disagree with you.
Not to mention how many sales I've driven to Apple over the years due to specific policies like these. Doesn't matter, there is no discussing things with folks like you who don't look at the larger picture, or the simple fact that a policy is there for a reason.
You encourage others to do the same by posting photos and boasting about it. So, yes, in a sense it is like buying and returning 50 computers, if fifty others do the same after they read your post knowing that there will be no repercussions.
Apple has huge margins padded into the cost of their items. All of Costco's margin is in the membership and not the items. Some sell for a loss even.
What is your point?
Yes, I bought more than one laptop with the intention of returning one. So what? This item goes to the refurb store where there are still significant margins. Apple doesn't sell these for bargain basement prices. Again, what is your point? And you don't know what their policy would be if they manufactured here in the US. It could be just as much, perhaps they would eliminate waste elsewhere in the company. You are STILL missing the point that this policy and flexibility results in better economics and revenue for the company, not the other way around.
And yes, if I purchase a pair of pants too and decide I don't like them later, Banana Republic gives me 60 days to return them (for reference). You better believe I'll use that policy if needed. What if I had to order online and couldn't spend hours/days playing around in the store?
Your argument is pointless. If it was really bad for the company they wouldn't allow it, plain and simple. Sure, if EVERYONE did it things might change, just like if EVERYONE tried to make a phone call over the cellular network at the same time it wouldn't work, or hit the freeway, or go to the grocery store, and the list can go on and on and on and on and on...
Take the blinders off and look at the macro level. I'm sure Apple knows what they're doing.
Ever heard of the Net Promoter Score? There is a reason Apple dominates over all others in this industry, and over most cross-industry.
I can see both sides of this. Its nice to be able to test a product out, especially one this expensive and have a little piece of mind that you aren't just stuck with what you buy.
On the other side of it.... This is why things cost so much. Because someone like you wants to try out a bunch of different stuff, then return what you don't want. They lose money on this. You can say well... they make a killing on the refurb store. Not really... you have a physically good item that you unboxed and spent a little time on.
It cost X amount brand new. It cost Y amount refurbed. It cost the company Z amount to pay people, dedicate space, shipping costs and reboxing. I would say it costs the company money to refurb a perfectly good brand new machine. Companies will not just eat this cost. They will spread it back to the people that buy new machines. When they figure out the price of their goods, I bet they figure in this loss and add it to the cost.
I understand wanting to test stuff out. In my opinion, you are abusing the system. Buying all that stuff when you are likely to just keep one item. You cost the company money and in turn we all pay for it when we buy new. Second is you just took stock from someone else. My store ran out. I have to wait a week. I wonder how many people bought something, that I could be using right now and they will probably just return it later.
On the other side of it.... This is why things cost so much. Because someone like you wants to try out a bunch of different stuff, then return what you don't want. They lose money on this. You can say well... they make a killing on the refurb store. Not really... you have a physically good item that you unboxed and spent a little time on.
It cost X amount brand new. It cost Y amount refurbed. It cost the company Z amount to pay people, dedicate space, shipping costs and reboxing. I would say it costs the company money to refurb a perfectly good brand new machine. Companies will not just eat this cost. They will spread it back to the people that buy new machines. When they figure out the price of their goods, I bet they figure in this loss and add it to the cost.
I understand wanting to test stuff out. In my opinion, you are abusing the system. Buying all that stuff when you are likely to just keep one item. You cost the company money and in turn we all pay for it when we buy new. Second is you just took stock from someone else. My store ran out. I have to wait a week. I wonder how many people bought something, that I could be using right now and they will probably just return it later.
Are you as honest as Apple is with their return policy? Would you take the returned items back and honesty explain to them you had all the intentions of returning the items you did not decide to keep before or at the time of purchase because hey its Apple's return policy! They allow it! And I am going to take full advantage of it!
Last edited:
If I did this every time I purchased a new computer I might be more inclined to agree with you but that's not the case. Never been in this situation where I wasn't as sure. Again, that is why they have this policy.
I'm guessing Tim Cook should hire you to be the new COO since you are so certain about how this will impact their operational costs and margins.
Quote from Apple's return policy. This should about sum up how they feel about it:
Exactly! He thinks Apple does not include the cost of returned items in the price of its computers.
Are you as honest as Apple is with their return policy? Would you take the returned items back and honesty explain to them you had all the intentions of returning the items you did not decide to keep before or at the time of purchase because hey its Apple's return policy! They allow it! And I am going to take full advantage if it!
As I explained earlier in this thread before you so rudely accused me of being "immoral" I intended only to pick up one laptop and a new iMac. I wasn't planning to take home a 15" RMBP and a 13" but after the store manager and the rep helping me said to just "go ahead and take both now and see which one you like best and bring back the other", that's when I decided. Does that help you feel better about the situation? Sheesh.
It does impact their operational costs and margins. You say you run a business. You should know this then.....
It effects their dollar signs, but instead of eating it they raise the cost of new stuff and pass it on to the customer. Its us that it affects... not them. So thank you for contributing to the ever raising costs of already overpriced items.
I didn't keep one item out of three, I kept two out of three. And I did this based on their own recommendation to me in the store. I didn't "abuse" anything. I'm an extremely high revenue customer for Apple and again, I think they would vehemently disagree with your position here.
----------
This is already baked into their model, I am not personally causing any increase in costs for you at all.
After a quick scan of my purchases, I've bought exactly 23 new computers from Apple this year and I've returned just 2. But I'm a bad egg I guess and a bad customer for Apple. Right.
I said "unethical," "not immoral." I am sure you have morals where and when it counts. No one is accusing you of anything. You decided to post photos and boast about it. No one forced you to do that. So expect some criticism to go along with it. How did you expect us to react? "way to go ckeck! I am going to do the same thing instead of dragging my ass down to an Apple store several times before I make my final decision about which product I plan to purchase."
Sure, you saved some time, but think about others who now have to wait for the same computer to be restocked because of your decision.
Exactly! He thinks Apple does not include the cost of returned items in the price of its computers.
No, what I think is that you are assuming that my one purchase of a single extra laptop for the first time ever, to test based on the Apple stores advice is increasing your costs. Nope.
I already told you if I did this every other month I'd agree with you but you don't seem to be able to grasp that this doesn't happen over and over. Keep ignoring the facts and continue your rant.
----------
My mistake.
I wasn't "boasting" about it, but perhaps that wasn't clear. I was simply taking a jab at Apple for making it such a hard decision in the first place. Guess the picture was over the top and I should have refrained and then I wouldn't have gotten any flak.
And was looking for advice/feedback on the machines as well, just because I posted a picture doesn't change that.
I don't find his unethical as much as I find it to be just plain pathetic and annoying that OP is trying to post "made rich alert".
See, actually none at all. I purchased the 15" online before going to the store because those were few and far between at launch but this is the one I was planning to keep for sure. I wasn't sure about the 13...while talking to the store manager who came by to "help", he said they had more than enough 13's so if I wanted to try one I should just take it now. The 13's haven't been out of stock at all since launch at my local store(s). I know several people who've picked them up, I just tagged along with one of them this afternoon.
Keep rationalizing what you did was right instead of admitting that it was unethical.
I bought and kept two high-end computers in one visit not counting all the others this year.
That alone puts me at the top of their per customer revenue count. I'd say what I did was right for them.
----------
I did, by taking a few days to hold them, see the real differences in the screens, etc. Reading text can only do so much, or poking around in an over-crowded Apple store with machines held down to the table.
If I was a customer of your business in this scenario I'd be one of your most profitable customers by a HUGE margin. But you'd ask me not to shop there anymore right? You'd stay in business for a long time.
Not to mention the one I already returned suffered from some significant issues I've described with screen stuttering/lag running a scaled resolution. Guess that doesn't matter.
You seem like an intelligent person, but refuse to direct that ability towards accurately extrapolating and predicting your needs in something as simple as a notebook computer.
Weird.
Weird.
Lighten up Francis.
In fact, everyone in this thread should take a step back and relax a little. I originally thought the OP bought all 3 computers to keep. Then I read further and saw his plan to only keep one. Big deal. Apple has sold millions and they have very smart people overseeing their retail stores. You don't think they're aware of this situation arising now and again? If they really cared or it really affected their bottom-line, they would have changed their policy. There's no need to get huffy or try to rush to Apple's defense. What the OP did is perfectly within Apple's rules. Period.
Last edited: