Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Lenovo is not good. I had to help a friend try to boot in safe mode because one of their drivers was messed up. However, the startup key for safe mode was not working and Lenovo is aware of this. Their recommendation was to configure safe mode from Windows itself as the F8 / Fn + F8 is ignored.

That is just horrible. I had to download the Windows 10 ISO from a different computer and put it on a USB drive to boot to try to repair the windows install instead of doing that through safe mode
So you're forming an opinion and condemning the entire line because your friend could not repair his own computer on his own and failed to have a recovery USB pre-loaded for just such events. For me, I have a bootable USB and windows provides ways to save recovery images, but hey if he didn't do it, that means that Lenovo is crap, I get it :rolleyes:.

If you don't like Lenovo that's no sweat off my back, but your example doesn't seem all that persuasive ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
So you're forming an opinion and condemning the entire line because your friend could not repair his own computer on his own and failed to have a recovery USB pre-loaded for just such events. For me, I have a bootable USB and windows provides ways to save recovery images, but hey if he didn't do it, that means that Lenovo is crap, I get it :rolleyes:.

If you don't like Lenovo that's no sweat off my back, but your example doesn't seem all that persuasive ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Microsoft no longer requires license keys to reinstall the operating system which is a big improvement as many don't save their keys if they come as packaged software. Systems do often have them on a label affixed to the computer but sometimes you upgrade or purchase online and you don't save your key.

It helps to have a second machine to build a bootable USB flash drive.

I've done this with macOS many times in the past two years as well and, again, it helps to have another Mac to create a bootable drive. You can do a network boot if you have a working, fast network, but it is sometimes tricky to get to work, particularly if you have complicated network security.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Queen6 and LeeW
It helps to have a second machine to build a bootable USB flash drive.
No question but also short of that, is to have the recovery/install USB already preloaded.

I've done this with macOS many times in the past two years as well and, again, it helps to have another Mac t
Agreed, though the mac has internet recovery a feature that is missing in windows, but blaming a shorting coming on windows and slamming the entire thinkpad line because of that seems kind of off target but that's just me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Queen6
No question but also short of that, is to have the recovery/install USB already preloaded.

Agreed, though the mac has internet recovery a feature that is missing in windows, but blaming a shorting coming on windows and slamming the entire thinkpad line because of that seems kind of off target but that's just me.

My personal experience lately is that recovery is available with both platforms - but you do need to have some expertise. I fix our home systems and systems for friends or co-workers so I tend to have tools, devices and hardware to make that easier. We have MacBook Pros and Lenovos where I work. I don't know the proportion but it's not overly lopsided like at Google or Mozilla.
 
- but you do need to have some expertise.
No argument there, and I will say macOS offers more sophisticated options like as I mentioned. Internet recovery is a great option. Microsoft doesn't do itself any favors with its recovery options. Again that's not Lenovo's fault but some of the quirks of dealing with windows.
 
So you're forming an opinion and condemning the entire line because your friend could not repair his own computer on his own and failed to have a recovery USB pre-loaded for just such events. For me, I have a bootable USB and windows provides ways to save recovery images, but hey if he didn't do it, that means that Lenovo is crap, I get it :rolleyes:.

If you don't like Lenovo that's no sweat off my back, but your example doesn't seem all that persuasive ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I am blaming a company that says “oh well you can’t use F8 to boot in to safe mode”. Their article even states it affects all models.

There are times where you can’t even boot in to safe mode. But Lenovo doesn’t even register F8 / Fn + F8 which is a serious flaw with their implementation.

And it’s such a big issue they published a page for it. But their recommendation was to set safe boot from Windows (which couldn’t work in this case). F8 would have worked in this case. But they aren’t registering the command which forces the use of a USB key. Unless you think F8 safe mode shouldn’t be used at all, how is this acceptable behavior?

Yes. Bad things happen. It’s the way for ALL IT stuff. I got a bad Samsung SSD once, but I did not say they were bad because of it. But come on, not registering F8 for safe mode?!
 
Last edited:
No argument there, and I will say macOS offers more sophisticated options like as I mentioned. Internet recovery is a great option. Microsoft doesn't do itself any favors with its recovery options. Again that's not Lenovo's fault but some of the quirks of dealing with windows.

The internet options don't work for me due to a rather complicated network setup. I usually do this stuff in the office and I would have to take the device home or into a Starbucks to use the Internet options. But it is nice that they are there. I do prefer to download, build a bootable USB or SSD drive and work from there because it's then reusable if I have to work on more than one machine.

That's weighed against the direction Apple is taking towards extracting more from customers, designing for form over function, and their QA woes. I've read a lot of stories about arguments between customers and Genius Bar employees and it sounds like the GB employees are having to deal with a lot of stress caused by management and engineering. I can definitely sympathize with both. Customers shouldn't have to deal with these kinds of problems spending $2,000 and up. I wouldn't expect these problems with computers selling for $500.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mendota
Bit presumptuous. All that is being stated is that they both have an i5, that is factual. You don't know what was compared.



A couple of hundred $'s is not the full picture though. Does the SB2 have the same issues with thermal throttling as that MBP pro model? I honestly don't know, but if not then it may actually provide better overall performance.

Besides that, you are referring to a MBP that still has a gen 2 butterfly keyboard. Not a great advert for paying an extra couple of hundred for.

Except if you need the CPU. I did have my Surface Laptop get to 1.7 GHz. So yes, from the definition of this forum, it does thermal throttle. It’s not at max turbo boost all the time.
[doublepost=1559405493][/doublepost]I am not sure if this has been posted before:

 
No argument there, and I will say macOS offers more sophisticated options like as I mentioned. Internet recovery is a great option. Microsoft doesn't do itself any favors with its recovery options. Again that's not Lenovo's fault but some of the quirks of dealing with windows.

The things is in over 10 years I have never had a Windows system go down to the point of total failure and needed to recover in this extreme manner. On the few occasions when something has gone array, I have used System restore and that fixes the issue. Windows also has a superior "reset" option that restores Windows without touching personal files and removes all programs, with a nice clean Windows. I have used this option to fix a few bloated systems for my relatives who install everything under the sun.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Certinfy
The things is in over 10 years I have never had a Windows system go down to the point of total failure and needed to recover in this extreme manner. On the few occasions when something has gone array, I have used System restore and that fixes the issue. Windows also has a superior "reset" option that restores Windows without touching personal files and removes all programs, with a nice clean Windows. I have used this option to fix a few bloated systems for my relatives who install everything under the sun.

I have had some instances where I had to wipe things due to software that didn’t want to get uninstalled.
 
Lately, what I could see are SSD issues.

Youtube reviews rarely mentioned what SSD that goes into their review unit. I had a batch of Envy x360, and they had Intel, Toshiba, and even LiteON branded SSD, and all three used different controllers, each with their own problems and quirks. Even more so now, with value brands pushing it with TLC NAND and all.

So you may have the best laptop, and encourage others to buy the same laptop, but you could have wildly different experiences with said laptop because of the SSD.
 
Lenovo is not good. I had to help a friend try to boot in safe mode because one of their drivers was messed up. However, the startup key for safe mode was not working and Lenovo is aware of this. Their recommendation was to configure safe mode from Windows itself as the F8 / Fn + F8 is ignored.

That is just horrible. I had to download the Windows 10 ISO from a different computer and put it on a USB drive to boot to try to repair the windows install instead of doing that through safe mode.
[doublepost=1559338340][/doublepost]

Well be careful comparing i5 to i5. My Surface Laptop 2 has a base clock speed of 1.6 GHz. A 13” MacBook Pro just a couple hundred more had a base clock of 2.3.

The i5 CPU inside the Surface Laptop 2 is the 8250U (15W). It has 4 cores at 1.6GHz and can turbo up to 3.4GHz. The CPU's in the MacBook Pro are 28W and it's true the current CPU in a MacBook Pro would of course be better for performance, but my Surface destroys my 2013 MacBook Pro so it's a huge upgrade for me personally.

I still use my MacBook Pro daily and it's just starting to show it's age. That's 6 years of good service so I can't complain.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mendota and Queen6
Lately, what I could see are SSD issues.

Youtube reviews rarely mentioned what SSD that goes into their review unit. I had a batch of Envy x360, and they had Intel, Toshiba, and even LiteON branded SSD, and all three used different controllers, each with their own problems and quirks. Even more so now, with value brands pushing it with TLC NAND and all.

So you may have the best laptop, and encourage others to buy the same laptop, but you could have wildly different experiences with said laptop because of the SSD.

At least you can always just swap in your own, existing SSD from your last laptop. I have a cheap 1TB WD Blue 500 that I use as storage and a Samsung 970 Pro 512GB I use for system files (my laptop has 2 m.2 pcie bays). Buy a new laptop with the smallest SSD possible to save money, drop in your new SSDs, and *poof* you're up and running. :)
 
At least you can always just swap in your own, existing SSD from your last laptop. I have a cheap 1TB WD Blue 500 that I use as storage and a Samsung 970 Pro 512GB I use for system files (my laptop has 2 m.2 pcie bays). Buy a new laptop with the smallest SSD possible to save money, drop in your new SSDs, and *poof* you're up and running. :)

Sorry, but swapping a SSD into a windows laptop isn't just some straight forward effort that applies to all laptops these days. You really need to see if :-

1. You could actually crack open the laptop back cover safely.

2. It is visible, and does not require you to disassemble the motherboard just to get to the M2 slot.

3. That your BIOS can actually support said SSD. Not the first time someone deciding to change an SSD found out that the laptop couldn't find said SSD.
 
1. You could actually crack open the laptop back cover safely.

Any examples of not being able to open back cover safely? Because in most popular win laptops, this is a kids chore.

2. It is visible, and does not require you to disassemble the motherboard just to get to the M2 slot.

Sure, some gaming notebooks (MSI?) require from you to remove the motherboard. But in (I guess) 97% of the cases, m2 is in plain sight, and visible.

3. That your BIOS can actually support said SSD. Not the first time someone deciding to change an SSD found out that the laptop couldn't find said SSD.

?
Could you please provide some examples of unsupported SSDs?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mendota and Eason85
Any examples of not being able to open back cover safely? Because in most popular win laptops, this is a kids chore.



Sure, some gaming notebooks (MSI?) require from you to remove the motherboard. But in (I guess) 97% of the cases, m2 is in plain sight, and visible.



?
Could you please provide some examples of unsupported SSDs?

Most popular Windows notebook happens to have plastic back covers. In the past, they usually have service covers where you can just open a section of the cover and it exposes the HDD and RAM. These days, most don't, and back covers are usually held in these laptops by flimsy plastic tabs that could break off.

You want to crack one open? Buy one of those iPhone kits, with those variable plastic prying tools. And, do note that some manufacturers like HP actually put the screws under the rubber pads under the laptop.

Pass that, and hopefully you get an easy layout where you can get to the M2, or the RAM's. Or if you are unlucky, and no one has uploaded a video to the internet, you'll have to figure out yourself where the sockets are.

Go to the HP forum. You'll find a lot of threads trying to figure out why SSD upgrades are not working, even when they were following the service guidelines when they were selecting their SSD. Same with Acer. Same with Asus.

I actually work in a PC shop. We used to upsell accessories, SSD upgrades and RAM upgrade. We stopped the SSD and RAM upgrade offers already because the profit doesn't justify the risk and the mess of trying to figure out a safe way to do the upgrades now.
 
So it's HP then?

I asked for specific examples, and got almost nothing.
I own X1E. Just remove few simple screws, and updates awaaaay. Same goes for most popular laptops these days. iPhone kit? That is for MBP, not PCs.

I actually work in a PC shop. We used to upsell accessories, SSD upgrades and RAM upgrade. We stopped the SSD and RAM upgrade offers already because the profit doesn't justify the risk and the mess of trying to figure out a safe way to do the upgrades now.

So you work at a PC shop that thinks it's risky to update SSD and RAM? Are you one of those 'neighbour' guys who will install Windows for free? :p
 
No argument there, and I will say macOS offers more sophisticated options like as I mentioned. Internet recovery is a great option. Microsoft doesn't do itself any favors with its recovery options. Again that's not Lenovo's fault but some of the quirks of dealing with windows.

That is true, that's something they should definitely work towards their next cumulative update.

The i5 CPU inside the Surface Laptop 2 is the 8250U (15W). It has 4 cores at 1.6GHz and can turbo up to 3.4GHz. The CPU's in the MacBook Pro are 28W and it's true the current CPU in a MacBook Pro would of course be better for performance, but my Surface destroys my 2013 MacBook Pro so it's a huge upgrade for me personally.

I still use my MacBook Pro daily and it's just starting to show it's age. That's 6 years of good service so I can't complain.

Well yeah it's a huge upgrade compared to what you had 6 years ago... Is. a lot of time for mobile chips more so than desktop as you can imagine.
 
So it's HP then?

I asked for specific examples, and got almost nothing.
I own X1E. Just remove few simple screws, and updates awaaaay. Same goes for most popular laptops these days. iPhone kit? That is for MBP, not PCs.



So you work at a PC shop that thinks it's risky to update SSD and RAM? Are you one of those 'neighbour' guys who will install Windows for free? :p

Ah. Now I have context. You think that every windows laptop out there is like your X1? Pop a few screws and away you go? Not everyone out there could afford to buy an X1. Most get stuck buying something like a bog standard HP 14-XXXXXXXX series, all of them having plastic back covers that requires a sharp plastic prying tool to open the cover, which a standard iphone repair kit usually provide.

But of course, they not having the cash to buy an X1 is their fault right? I mean, us "neighbour" guys are a bunch of no good pirates anyway to Mister "I use an X1E" like you anyway.
 
So it's HP then?

I asked for specific examples, and got almost nothing.
I own X1E. Just remove few simple screws, and updates awaaaay. Same goes for most popular laptops these days. iPhone kit? That is for MBP, not PCs.



So you work at a PC shop that thinks it's risky to update SSD and RAM? Are you one of those 'neighbour' guys who will install Windows for free? :p

I've and ASUS, RAM, both drives are fully user upgradable, even may little Acer Switch 5 can have the storage upgraded, admittedly some skill is required for that one. Only Windows portables I've used that really present a problem for upgrades is Microsoft's Surface line, rest you just need to do a little research.

I just look online to see what RAM and or SSD's are compatible, takes all of 5 minutes. As for shops that don't do upgrades probably best avoided, as invariably if the hardware has issue the notebook needs to be opened up.

Q-6
 
Ah. Now I have context. You think that every windows laptop out there is like your X1? Pop a few screws and away you go? Not everyone out there could afford to buy an X1. Most get stuck buying something like a bog standard HP 14-XXXXXXXX series, all of them having plastic back covers that requires a sharp plastic prying tool to open the cover, which a standard iphone repair kit usually provide.

But of course, they not having the cash to buy an X1 is their fault right? I mean, us "neighbour" guys are a bunch of no good pirates anyway to Mister "I use an X1E" like you anyway.

Nope, not every laptop is X1. And even though X1 is way less expensive then MBP, I'm well aware that not everyone can afford something like X1. But it's not just the matter of price, not everyone NEEDS something like X1.

But your context is something like this: "cheap HP laptop"
I get it, their cheap laptops are bad. From my experience with HP, every laptop they make is bad when compared to competition.

But HP is just one of the brands. Lets look at Dell. They have cheap options, and they have expensive laptops. But thru the whole lineup upgrading is really easy. For Lenovo it's super easy, it doesn't matter if it's 700$ or 2000$ laptop. Acer and Asus from my limited experience = easy upgrades.

So for most of laptops, be it cheap or expensive, upgrades are easy. You're sticking with HP, but how about MS? They are almost as bad as Apple when it comes to upgrades. Possible in most products, but you have to be handy to upgrade.

But more then 90% are easily upgradeable.

So 'mister who uses a X1E' understands that not everyone can afford one. Especially because that 'mister' comes from, and lives in a rather poor country. So believe me, I probably understand that better then 99% of people in this forum. But that 'mister' also understands that not everyone needs something like MBP or X1E. And he also understands that HP = sole laptop manufacturer out there.
 
Only had one laptop in my life, the MSI GS 65, that required me to disassemble **** to get at the NVMe bay (I used to go through a half-dozen a year as a reviewer at least)
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.