Dave Lee’s MacBook Pro review is telling

[lcseds]

Huh?

Soldered RAM isn't an Apple thing anymore. PC manufacturers have been soldering RAM for ages now. Practically most of the XPS line RAM's are soldered. Even worse, most of the time you need to crack open the laptop to find out whether or not you could upgrade because not all manufacturers provide a precise guide what is in the laptop in the first place.

SSD? Sure. Until you find out that you need a BIOS update for the laptop to detect the SSD. Which the manufacturer may or may not deign to give you one.

GPU option. Sure. Then you find out the exhaust vent warped the aluminium on your screen (happened to my Swift). Better cooling? Much as everyone would like to think throttling is an Apple thing, it isn't. Crack open a standard laptop and you see the similar design of the cooling you have on most laptops.

4K? Stupid on a windows machine. You'd have to set the scaling to a bigger percentage, and voila! Messed up legacy app which included the notifications on even native windows app!

I could go on and on. In the end, I don't really care if Dave or the other youtubers keep bashing Apple. They have their angle. But don't make it like everything in PC land is like this promised land of perfection.

Did you write this ten years ago? Soldering ram for "ages"? Every Lenovo Thinkpad sans the X1 Carbon/Yoga have memory and SSD slots (an example). Many more found easily.

Crack open the laptop? No. 2 seconds with google will answer your questions. At least you can open it though.

SSD/BIOS issue? lol. How old is that complaint?? It's more sad iMacs use spinners IMO.

It's good to have a counter argument, but there is no need for an over dramatic, factually incorrect one.

 

[BigBoy2018]

Interesting. He didn’t come out and say it directly, but essentially he said it’s thermal issues remain & keyboard update doesn’t fill him with any confidence. It’s also just not worth the money as he hilariously alluded to.

Have a watch...

"You won't notice the thermal limitations of this device on a benchmark".

Let's repeat that for everyone who continually posts their geekbench scores of the precious macbook pro's on these forums.

THE BENCHMARKS DON'T MEAN MUCH when you're looking at using this machine's power for any amount of time beyond a minute or two.

That's why when you go to Bare Feats or any other reputable site that tests these machines they do a bunch of real-world tests that truly push the machine. They rarely even mention geekbench.

So please everyone, put the geekbench down and walk away

 

[Queen6]

"You won't notice the thermal limitations of this device on a benchmark".

Let's repeat that for everyone who continually posts their geekbench scores of the precious macbook pro's on these forums.

THE BENCHMARKS DON'T MEAN MUCH when you're looking at using this machine's power for any amount of time beyond a minute or two.

That's why when you go to Bare Feats or any other reputable site that tests these machines they do a bunch of real-world tests that truly push the machine. They rarely even mention geekbench.

So please everyone, put the geekbench down and walk away

Benchmarks can and do serve a purpose, equally Geekbench is the very last I would use as to me it's designed to produce big numbers for "bar talk and bragging rights, little else. If you want to see realistic results use your workflow, if that's not possible as is frequent in professional circles choose a benchmark that actually stresses the system. Not one that massages your ego or your buyers remorse...

Those seeking performance know this, utilising a suitable benchmark to illustrate improvements to the system works.

Even these results are little more than a snapshot, although the CPU in this case will be pushed far harder than Geekbench's nonsense...

Q-6

 

[BigBoy2018]

Benchmarks can and do serve a purpose, equally Geekbench is the very last I would use as to me it's designed to produce big numbers for "bar talk and bragging rights, little else. If you want to see realistic results use your workflow, if that's not possible as is frequent in professional circles choose a benchmark that actually stresses the system. Not one that massages your ego or your buyers remorse...

Those seeking performance know this, utilising a suitable benchmark to illustrate improvements to the system works.
View attachment 839659Even these results are little more than a snapshot, although the CPU in this case will be pushed far harder than Geekbench's nonsense...

Q-6

What pisses me off even more is when so-called reviewers mention geekbench scores and do no other testing. Its lazy, and misleading.

 

[Queen6]

What pisses me off even more is when so-called reviewers mention geekbench scores a d do no other testing. Its lazy, and misleading.

Geekbench pointless unless you want big numbers for bar talk and BS. Benchmark's do have there purpose as they should level the field and for some illustrating workflow publicly is not appropriate. Geekbench is perfect for Mac as neither really perform optimally...

Q-6

 

[SDColorado]

I know it's fast becoming an MR meme

Q-6

 

[Thysanoptera]

Is there any way to remove those color tags from context menu and finder window?

 

[Queen6]

Is there any way to remove those color tags from context menu and finder window?

Don't worry help is never far away

Q-6

 

[Thysanoptera]

Don't worry help is never far away
Q-6

Good point, but my kids are just over 5 years old so they're overqualified to use labels for counting and color recognition training.

 

[Eason85]

What pisses me off even more is when so-called reviewers mention geekbench scores and do no other testing. Its lazy, and misleading.

As a (semi) professional laptop reviewer, I don't bother with Geekbench. It's basically useless.

 

[doitdada]

As a (semi) professional laptop reviewer, I don't bother with Geekbench. It's basically useless.

It is actually good to see the numbers, but fan noise and actual speed/score over time is more important.

 

[Queen6]

As a (semi) professional laptop reviewer, I don't bother with Geekbench. It's basically useless.

Credibility; Geekbench is garbage if you understand computers and their constraints, pointless waste of time and in some cases money just to make you feel good...

Q-6

 

[Eason85]

It is actually good to see the numbers, but fan noise and actual speed/score over time is more important.

The best tests done are notebookcheck's cinebench loop script, which loops the multi-core benchmark and records the score for each one 15+ times. This allows us to plot the performance over time on a chart.

The other one is a less realistic furmark + prime95 loop as a torture test. Good to see how well the firmware/cooling handles extremes.

 

[pshufd]

This is a review comparing the Thinkpad P72 to the Thinkpad P1 and he discusses thermal and power throttling. Exactly what you'd expect between a thin and light vs a thick and huge.

 

[Thysanoptera]

This is a review comparing the Thinkpad P72 to the Thinkpad P1 and he discusses thermal and power throttling. Exactly what you'd expect between a thin and light vs a thick and huge.

Every time I see another youtube review I find something that just lets me question if the given person knows what he's doing:

"The P72 is using a 99 Whr battery, which is just below the legal limit to get on to a plane, so you're getting about 2 to 3 hours of use before needing to charge. This one on the other hand is an 80 Whr battery so you're looking at like 5 to 6 hours of use before need to charge"

Where is that Sesame Street Count von Count picture?

And then he goes on the throttling comparison, in some vague terms without providing any numbers, mixing up power and thermal throttling between those two. So if P1 was power throttling (which is a fixed limit set by OEM and has nothing to do with thermals) and the P72 was not power throttling but was thermal throttling (which depends obviously on temperature) - which one has better thermal management? I guess we'll never know, unless you look at the size and that you can fit 3 P1 inside P72.

 

[doitdada]

The best tests done are notebookcheck's cinebench loop script, which loops the multi-core benchmark and records the score for each one 15+ times. This allows us to plot the performance over time on a chart.

The other one is a less realistic furmark + prime95 loop as a torture test. Good to see how well the firmware/cooling handles extremes.

Lots of people who don't use cinebench, like me. I think Geekbench is good. High scores mean more snappiness.

Battery, display and snappiness are in my opinion the most important factors. For Cinebench or anything else intensive I would use a desktop. Laptop is good for everything else.

 

[petvas]

I don’t know if this has already been posted:

It looks promising

 

[Eason85]

Every time I see another youtube review I find something that just lets me question if the given person knows what he's doing:

"The P72 is using a 99 Whr battery, which is just below the legal limit to get on to a plane, so you're getting about 2 to 3 hours of use before needing to charge. This one on the other hand is an 80 Whr battery so you're looking at like 5 to 6 hours of use before need to charge"

Where is that Sesame Street Count von Count picture?

And then he goes on the throttling comparison, in some vague terms without providing any numbers, mixing up power and thermal throttling between those two. So if P1 was power throttling (which is a fixed limit set by OEM and has nothing to do with thermals) and the P72 was not power throttling but was thermal throttling (which depends obviously on temperature) - which one has better thermal management? I guess we'll never know, unless you look at the size and that you can fit 3 P1 inside P72.

That feeling when you notice that most people commonly watched on youtube don't know what they're really doing. TechTablets is one of the few channels that gives proper phone and laptop reviews, but they mostly do Chinese cheap brands. It is extremely difficult to run a youtube channel full-time (as in, not costing you more than you earn) and to review things honestly. You have to be first up to get views, and you can only be first when the company favours you and sends you pre-release goods. Simple and effective way to subvert honest reviews and replace them with advertising.

 

[Thysanoptera]

That feeling when you notice that most people commonly watched on youtube don't know what they're really doing.

The scary part is that Youtube is becoming the main source of information often cited as the ultimate truth, and while you can find some good information out there, it drowns in the vast noise of all the crap surrounding it.

 

[Eason85]

The scary part is that Youtube is becoming the main source of information often cited as the ultimate truth, and while you can find some good information out there, it drowns in the vast noise of all the crap surrounding it.

Yeah. Easy to get thoroughly depressed thinking about it.

 

[Ethosik]

Lenovo is a great brand as I posted in another thread, I paid 2286 for my Thinkpad which would have run me in the 4500+ range on the MBP. Maybe not half but the price difference is large. I get a better keyboard, replaceable components, a higher resolution touch screen

If you like Macs, that's great, but don't dismiss the competitors with a wave of a hand, because they simply do not have the number of issues that that we've had to deal with on the MBP over the years.

Lenovo is not good. I had to help a friend try to boot in safe mode because one of their drivers was messed up. However, the startup key for safe mode was not working and Lenovo is aware of this. Their recommendation was to configure safe mode from Windows itself as the F8 / Fn + F8 is ignored.

That is just horrible. I had to download the Windows 10 ISO from a different computer and put it on a USB drive to boot to try to repair the windows install instead of doing that through safe mode.
[doublepost=1559338340][/doublepost]

I was in the market for a 13” laptop but Apple’s asking price once I added Apple Care was past the £2000 mark.

Got myself a Surface Laptop 2 instead (Quad core i5/8GB RAM/256 SSD). I paid £1049 plus £70 for 3 years extended warranty & accidental damage from John Lewis (large UK retailer).

So almost 50% of the cost for a machine that is staggeringly good and has a keyboard that I find on par with my old ThinkPad T series. It’s almost like Apple doesn’t want business from people like me.

I’d pony up the cash if I believed I was getting £2000’s worth of premium hardware but I wouldn’t have got that would I...

Well be careful comparing i5 to i5. My Surface Laptop 2 has a base clock speed of 1.6 GHz. A 13” MacBook Pro just a couple hundred more had a base clock of 2.3.

 

[richinaus]

Lenovo is not good. I had to help a friend try to boot in safe mode because one of their drivers was messed up. However, the startup key for safe mode was not working and Lenovo is aware of this. Their recommendation was to configure safe mode from Windows itself as the F8 / Fn + F8 is ignored.

That is just horrible. I had to download the Windows 10 ISO from a different computer and put it on a USB drive to boot to try to repair the windows install instead of doing that through safe mode.
[doublepost=1559338340][/doublepost]

Well be careful comparing i5 to i5. My Surface Laptop 2 has a base clock speed of 1.6 GHz. A 13” MacBook Pro just a couple hundred more had a base clock of 2.3.

A lot of people don’t seem to be able to compare specs properly unfortunately. If they are happy, then all good.

Re. Lenovo, I am of the opinion that anything can go wrong with all these brands [I have experience with all of them and have had issues with all]. So just buy what you feel is right for you and does what you want. I see Lenovo prices are good but that terrible ‘80s thinkpad logo [and positioning] and trackpad buttons have to go for me to buy one.

 

[LeeW]

A lot of people don’t seem to be able to compare specs properly unfortunately. If they are happy, then all good.

Bit presumptuous. All that is being stated is that they both have an i5, that is factual. You don't know what was compared.

A 13” MacBook Pro just a couple hundred more had a base clock of 2.3.

A couple of hundred $'s is not the full picture though. Does the SB2 have the same issues with thermal throttling as that MBP pro model? I honestly don't know, but if not then it may actually provide better overall performance.

Besides that, you are referring to a MBP that still has a gen 2 butterfly keyboard. Not a great advert for paying an extra couple of hundred for.

 

[richinaus]

Not wanting to argue, but virtually everyone I know wouldn’t know the differences in the cpu’s.

 

[LeeW]

Not wanting to argue, but virtually everyone I know wouldn’t know the differences in the cpu’s.

True, it's a bit like phones, nobody cares what is in it, they simply expect it to work and do what it is supposed to.