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David Pogue: New iMacs and Mac Pros Coming 'Probably in 2013' [Update]
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Exactly. For $1500 you can build an awesome OSX machine. But for some people, it is more important how the desktop case looks than what's inside.
People shoot 4k (or better) quite a bit these days. Even if your deliverable is 2K or only some flavor of HD it is sensible to shoot in the highest possible resolution available.
With 4K here to stay it makes sense to have the most powerful computer available to handle the media. Because it is more accessible it's not just big budget production shooting 4K but many smaller production companies, freelance DP/camera owners, indy films, etc, who will be generating enormous amounts of footage, much of it in REDCode RAW (R3D) format and not have the budget to order up a render farm.
So... It's NOT just a few people using 4K, and is highly relevant.
A powerful computer is needed by anyone doing work with 4K, even if you are using proxy files. Editorial houses need as much REALTIME performance as possible. A render farm is for renders.
"NO ONE is complaining about the Mac Pros." Really? Are you sure about that?
Correct me if I'm wrong but could the delay be because they're finally getting round to using a new motherboard?
4 years worth of Mac Pro models and they're still using the standard 4 or 8 RAM slot design, same SATA 3Gb/s connections and only the CPUs, RAM speed and GPU options have improved along with the standard amount of RAM they ship with but that's more an indication of RAM cost as much as anything.
I imagine adding SATA 6Gb/s and Thunderbolt and maybe redesigning the internals for more expandibility could be taking some time. SSDs are here to stay and having 4 x 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s bays and 4 x 3.5" SATA 6Gb/s bays would make a lot of sense.
Check out "The Promax One", it's what the Mac Pro "could" be but minus Thunderbolt.
http://barefeats.com/sandy01.html
4 years worth of Mac Pro models and they're still using the standard 4 or 8 RAM slot design, same SATA 3Gb/s connections and only the CPUs, RAM speed and GPU options have improved along with the standard amount of RAM they ship with but that's more an indication of RAM cost as much as anything.
I imagine adding SATA 6Gb/s and Thunderbolt and maybe redesigning the internals for more expandibility could be taking some time. SSDs are here to stay and having 4 x 2.5" SATA 6Gb/s bays and 4 x 3.5" SATA 6Gb/s bays would make a lot of sense.
Check out "The Promax One", it's what the Mac Pro "could" be but minus Thunderbolt.
http://barefeats.com/sandy01.html
The Mac Pro problem lies with Tim.
With all the years of dealing inside and out at Apple and NeXT prior, Steve was extremely adamant at making sure, even if he left it to a future date, to leave a teaser in public presentations to reassure segments of developers, producers and users that product A is getting a significant upgrade.
This does not destroy secrecy, nor reveal what's behind the curtain, but it does work to put a lot of consumers at ease.
Tim should not be this bad at delivering a Keynote. He's got enough experience to be able to see that a little sugar goes a long way.
To reportedly respond to people emailing him, in hindsight, to hint at a significant upgrade soon, after a Keynote is an utter failure.
That is a big no, no.
He cannot run the CEO position like he did as the former Chief Operating Officer. It's time he puts that Industrial Design Engineering degree to use, dust it off and have some vision when it comes to guiding the ship.
Otherwise, he's going to ignore that you have to take risks from time to time.
No one will replace Steve. steve often told Ivy he's full of it and his work is crap and Ivy would step back and go back to the team and work at meeting needs of how come Steve hates this or that. Often he'd come back and knock it out of the park. Often it was another round of what is wrong. Tim needs to start doing this or Ivy will just go off a cliff with winowing down systems to absurd levels.
Today's new Macbook Pro is an example of when you let Ivy just do what he wants and then you release a new video braging about how you have to break the mold and create a product for the most performance driven user, while actually not delivering on that claim but delivering on the ooh and ahh factor of HiRes DPI without a product capable of being more capable in power because you have this continued fetish of being the slimmest laptop provider in the world.
It's reached an end. The system weighs less than 4.5 lbs. Enough already.
Make it 100% recycleable, 100% Green and as energy efficient as Science and price points can warrant, while making it the highest performance driven solution you can provide. Those are admirable goals in Engineering. What's not impressive is making it any lighter just for the sake of being thinner and lighter. That ads nothing to the performance of a laptop.
The iPad weights 1.46 lbs. What's Ivy's goal? Does he want to widdle this down to the weight of the iPad?
Enough.
With all the years of dealing inside and out at Apple and NeXT prior, Steve was extremely adamant at making sure, even if he left it to a future date, to leave a teaser in public presentations to reassure segments of developers, producers and users that product A is getting a significant upgrade.
This does not destroy secrecy, nor reveal what's behind the curtain, but it does work to put a lot of consumers at ease.
Tim should not be this bad at delivering a Keynote. He's got enough experience to be able to see that a little sugar goes a long way.
To reportedly respond to people emailing him, in hindsight, to hint at a significant upgrade soon, after a Keynote is an utter failure.
That is a big no, no.
He cannot run the CEO position like he did as the former Chief Operating Officer. It's time he puts that Industrial Design Engineering degree to use, dust it off and have some vision when it comes to guiding the ship.
Otherwise, he's going to ignore that you have to take risks from time to time.
No one will replace Steve. steve often told Ivy he's full of it and his work is crap and Ivy would step back and go back to the team and work at meeting needs of how come Steve hates this or that. Often he'd come back and knock it out of the park. Often it was another round of what is wrong. Tim needs to start doing this or Ivy will just go off a cliff with winowing down systems to absurd levels.
Today's new Macbook Pro is an example of when you let Ivy just do what he wants and then you release a new video braging about how you have to break the mold and create a product for the most performance driven user, while actually not delivering on that claim but delivering on the ooh and ahh factor of HiRes DPI without a product capable of being more capable in power because you have this continued fetish of being the slimmest laptop provider in the world.
It's reached an end. The system weighs less than 4.5 lbs. Enough already.
Make it 100% recycleable, 100% Green and as energy efficient as Science and price points can warrant, while making it the highest performance driven solution you can provide. Those are admirable goals in Engineering. What's not impressive is making it any lighter just for the sake of being thinner and lighter. That ads nothing to the performance of a laptop.
The iPad weights 1.46 lbs. What's Ivy's goal? Does he want to widdle this down to the weight of the iPad?
Enough.
I seriously don't think that Apple intends to neglect pro users... I think they want to perhaps change the perception that the Mac Pro is the only way to go by developing and enhancing other tools like the MBP and to a certain extent the iMac.
However, I'm not stupid and I realise that in certain circumstances the Pro is the only suitable option, especially when you require expandability and serious processing power (although perhaps the advent of Thunderbolt addresses some of these concerns, allowing expandability of other Macs).
I guess it's (sadly) a wait and see game. But hopefully, it will be worth the wait in the end.
However, I'm not stupid and I realise that in certain circumstances the Pro is the only suitable option, especially when you require expandability and serious processing power (although perhaps the advent of Thunderbolt addresses some of these concerns, allowing expandability of other Macs).
I guess it's (sadly) a wait and see game. But hopefully, it will be worth the wait in the end.
that sucks
It seems that they see no value in having someone say "i create using a mac".
Why don't they realise that the creative segment is important?
Why can't they see the need for a rounded hardware portfolio rather than thinking that all they need is the iOS stuff?
Sure, the Mac Pro might not sell that much, but the work that is produced on a mac pro is very important both to the creators and to other people's expectations of what is possible.
It seems that they see no value in having someone say "i create using a mac".
Why don't they realise that the creative segment is important?
Why can't they see the need for a rounded hardware portfolio rather than thinking that all they need is the iOS stuff?
Sure, the Mac Pro might not sell that much, but the work that is produced on a mac pro is very important both to the creators and to other people's expectations of what is possible.
You honestly think that Steve didn't know about this laptop? It's been only 8 months, I bet this device was in the making for over 2 years.
You gota be kidding me if you think I'm paying all that for a Mac Pro with a 2 year old video card in it..no USB 3, no thunderbolt, blimey I could build a PC for less than half that with all those features (not that is a fair comparison but you know what I mean)..why buy a botched old 2010 model with a new CPU..nothing else has changed !
Thanks apple for the insult of an upgrade..
C
champ01
Guest
The Mac Pro has no hassle with updates a hackintosh does. Thats why.
It's not about the money its about knowing you bought a problem free system.
Five minutes worth of research would show that isn't the case. The Hackint0sh community has come a LONG way.
Can't speak for everyone, but investing that kind of money in completely outdated technology is fiscally irresponsible.
I dunno, you mentioned that you had large amount of work comming, I just offered a pragmatic way of looking at it. So what are you going to do?
Lets shaft desktop users
If Apple wish to abandon the desktop space, why don't they do us all a favour and break-up the business into its consumer-orientated toys - these being the mobile's and iOs toy - Let's call this APPLE - and a professional computer business that focuses on desktops and workstations all underpinned by OSX - for the sake of clarity, lets call this Macintosh Computer.
Other businesses have split in two and prospered, whilst others have withered on the vine - my impression would be that iOS toys will one day go the way of Nokia and many other businesses that are based on fads and what's in vogue.
Given the desktop segment, and indeed OSX are now little more than a small segment of Apple's overall business model - it would be best to dispense of the desktop segment and OSX and allow those who believe in this business segment to innovate with new superior products that are engineered to outperform DELL, Lenovo, HP and the other PC manufacturers.
Given Mountain Lion is a merger between OSX and iOS - it does not represent leading-edge computer coding, such a move would allow both engineers and software designers to concentrate on products they love - they may be niche products and not part of what's fashionable today, but they are required products that have a large following - basically Apple you can keep your feminine toys and allow the boys to actually have something muscular to play with!
If Apple wish to abandon the desktop space, why don't they do us all a favour and break-up the business into its consumer-orientated toys - these being the mobile's and iOs toy - Let's call this APPLE - and a professional computer business that focuses on desktops and workstations all underpinned by OSX - for the sake of clarity, lets call this Macintosh Computer.
Other businesses have split in two and prospered, whilst others have withered on the vine - my impression would be that iOS toys will one day go the way of Nokia and many other businesses that are based on fads and what's in vogue.
Given the desktop segment, and indeed OSX are now little more than a small segment of Apple's overall business model - it would be best to dispense of the desktop segment and OSX and allow those who believe in this business segment to innovate with new superior products that are engineered to outperform DELL, Lenovo, HP and the other PC manufacturers.
Given Mountain Lion is a merger between OSX and iOS - it does not represent leading-edge computer coding, such a move would allow both engineers and software designers to concentrate on products they love - they may be niche products and not part of what's fashionable today, but they are required products that have a large following - basically Apple you can keep your feminine toys and allow the boys to actually have something muscular to play with!
To be fair, a friend works at an independent Mac dealer that primarily serves the professional market and a massive percentage of the kinds of customers that used to buy G3, G4 and G5 towers are now all buying MacBook Pros and iMacs to do the same thing. Indeed, go to a graphic design house or magazine and designers are almost all on iMacs these days.
Two points, though: First, there is still strong demand for a headless iMac/bigger mini/MacPro Lite with fast desktop class chips as a general design and business machine. Second, YES, for the sake of completeness of the platform Apple should have an up to date workstation even if it only sells a relative handful of machines.
Enterprise servers, really not too important - in the corporate world most Macs are clients on Unix or Windows servers anyway. And for smaller Mac-only shops, the current Mini and Tower machines do the job.
I am fairly convinced that what they're working on is an all-in-one that will swivel down to your desk and then you'll use the new vibrating pen for graphics etc whilst still using the traditional keyboard, mouse and voice input.
The rumour is a couple of weeks old, but it explains it well:
http://www.cultofmac.com/169875/what-apples-vibrating-pen-tells-us-about-the-future-of-everything/
This is why we don't have the updated iMacs yet.
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The problem with that is that currently Ivy Bridge Xeons do not bring native USB 3 or Thunderbolt. So you may as well keep waiting. Unless Intel announces a new chipset for the IB Xeons. The SB Xeon chipset will support IB Xeons and Intel have indicated that there will be an update. The workstation world moves a lot slower than the consumer one.
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Yes, the "update" yesterday was an insult and it would be nice for a proper, clear statement on what the company is going to do. They don't need to give us all of the details. Just say it clearly and straight:
"Yes, we're committed to the Mac Pro. We promise to stop using 3 year old graphic cards and 2 year old CPUs. Soon. Seriously."
The rumour is a couple of weeks old, but it explains it well:
http://www.cultofmac.com/169875/what-apples-vibrating-pen-tells-us-about-the-future-of-everything/
This is why we don't have the updated iMacs yet.
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The problem with that is that currently Ivy Bridge Xeons do not bring native USB 3 or Thunderbolt. So you may as well keep waiting. Unless Intel announces a new chipset for the IB Xeons. The SB Xeon chipset will support IB Xeons and Intel have indicated that there will be an update. The workstation world moves a lot slower than the consumer one.
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Yes, the "update" yesterday was an insult and it would be nice for a proper, clear statement on what the company is going to do. They don't need to give us all of the details. Just say it clearly and straight:
"Yes, we're committed to the Mac Pro. We promise to stop using 3 year old graphic cards and 2 year old CPUs. Soon. Seriously."
Mine also still works like a charm, and its an early 2008! Over four years old now and going strong.
I really hope the Mac Pro continues to exist and gets a decent update soon though, I remember waiting for the 2006 pro to get updated and that was painful, but this situation is just ridiculous.
I know (I've got a shooting with the Epic in a few days) but the trend, as I've seen it, considering other manufacturers than RED, at the moment, is going towards 4K rather than 5K. Again, personal experience: I'm in Europe, maybe in the US you're more Epic-prone. We also shoot a lot with the Alexa.
If the update to the current design of the MacPro included Thunderbolt, some on this forum would be happy...then, in 8 months or so, when a new design comes out, they would be as unhappy then as they are now with only a speed bump. The complaints about the MacPro's lack of Thunderbolt is form over substance. While Thunderbolt offers some great features, the reality is that unless you are using the Apple Thunderbolt display, the Thunderbolt hard drive offerings out there are still very limited, and still overly pricey. Those high-end, hard-core users relying on the benefits of a MacPro likely have better displays than the Apple display. So what, really, will Thunderbolt get you right now? Nothing more than hope for useful and reasonably priced peripherals that still have yet to materialize.
I agree that a MacPro design change is overdue, but I don't think Apple is planning on making it obsolete. Mine is from 2007 and, unfortunately, not eligible for Mountain Lion. However, it still hums along like it did when I purchased it (although my boot drive is now an SSD, which helps).
I'd rather wait 6-8 months for a newly designed MacPro, then get one now only because it has Thunderbolt.
I have a few friends who think the future is in an iMac with daisy-chained Thunderbolt drives. I disagree....the ability to add cards, change the video, have 4 internal drives, a separate monitor, etc. make the MacPro highly desirable in the long-run. Let's see what 2013 brings....
I agree that a MacPro design change is overdue, but I don't think Apple is planning on making it obsolete. Mine is from 2007 and, unfortunately, not eligible for Mountain Lion. However, it still hums along like it did when I purchased it (although my boot drive is now an SSD, which helps).
I'd rather wait 6-8 months for a newly designed MacPro, then get one now only because it has Thunderbolt.
I have a few friends who think the future is in an iMac with daisy-chained Thunderbolt drives. I disagree....the ability to add cards, change the video, have 4 internal drives, a separate monitor, etc. make the MacPro highly desirable in the long-run. Let's see what 2013 brings....
Despite the fact that Intel's c600 series chipset datasheet
http://www.intel.com/content/dam/ww.../datasheets/c600-series-chipset-datasheet.pdf
only mentions support for USB 2.0, and the E5-2600/4600 datasets
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/xeon/xeon-e5-1600-2600-vol-1-datasheet.html
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/xeon/xeon-e5-1600-2600-vol-2-datasheet.html
make no note of it, several companies, such as Supermicro, have been churning out DP (E5-2600 series) and MP (E5-4600 series) Xeon motherboards with the c602 chipset that offer USB 3.0 and multiple PCI-e 3.0 x16 connections:
http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X9DAi.cfm
http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X9DA7.cfm
http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X9QR7-TF_.cfm
http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X9QRi-F_.cfm
As such, there's no engineering reason, as far as I could tell, that would have prevented them from updating the Mac Pro with a recently-released AMD or NVIDIA GPU, e.g., a modified Radeon HD 7970 or GeForce GTX 680/690 with EFI support, and either dual E5-2600s, e.g., E5-2643, E5-2667, or E5-2680, or quad E5-4600s, e.g., E5-4603, E5-4617, or E5-4650.
Of course, as you mentioned, if they plan on pushing for native Thunderbolt support, I could see why they would hold off on doing a major overhaul: overall, it wouldn't necessarily be prudent to lock in the supplies for a comparatively low selling item like the Mac Pro if it's lifetime was only supposed to span a few months (or however long it is until the DP Ivy Bridge Xeons are released).
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I don't see it that way at all.
Rather this is a pretty classic new technology ramp up! By releasing on one machine they reduce exposure if anything goes wrong in the supply chain.
It really doesn't matter what next years design is. The problem is with this years rev. Here it isn't the CPUs that bother me but everything surrounding them. No USB 3, no TB and a three year old GPU in a "Pro" machine is a joke.
Rather this is a pretty classic new technology ramp up! By releasing on one machine they reduce exposure if anything goes wrong in the supply chain.
Actually I think not. Intels integrated GPU most likely isn't up to the task.
Well yeah that is what was rumored to have been said.
It really doesn't matter what next years design is. The problem is with this years rev. Here it isn't the CPUs that bother me but everything surrounding them. No USB 3, no TB and a three year old GPU in a "Pro" machine is a joke.
No need to find any good points with this choice...
Cook has wrong,badly!Neither Imac have an update..
now i understand what he talked about the double down...
both desktop line terminated!
Apple is an I-toy company sold to Forstall...and it reminds me very closely
Commodore..and we know all what has happened...they had the Amiga..they..ran the console game..forgettin their dna....and Commodore die.
Cook...very bery bad WWDC.. .
Its time to build an hackintosh with the prodigy phoenix case.
Cook has wrong,badly!Neither Imac have an update..
now i understand what he talked about the double down...
both desktop line terminated!
Apple is an I-toy company sold to Forstall...and it reminds me very closely
Commodore..and we know all what has happened...they had the Amiga..they..ran the console game..forgettin their dna....and Commodore die.
Cook...very bery bad WWDC.. .
Its time to build an hackintosh with the prodigy phoenix case.
An interesting item to relate.
I often stop by the local library to soak up some WiFi, this with my old 2008 MBP that has seen better days. I'm often sitting there surrounded by "kids" with machines that far outclass my old MBP. These are high school students, so when I say $2500 for a computer isn't a problem that is pretty much the case.
There really isn't any such thing as a Pro machine. There are various levels of performance one can buy. Pros often gravitate to things like the AIRs because they are a better fit for their needs.
In the end it was probably a mistake for Apple to even use the word Pro in its naming conventions. People attach value to the word instead of the hardware. Of course maybe that was the intention.
I often stop by the local library to soak up some WiFi, this with my old 2008 MBP that has seen better days. I'm often sitting there surrounded by "kids" with machines that far outclass my old MBP. These are high school students, so when I say $2500 for a computer isn't a problem that is pretty much the case.
Nope I think you got that wrong, at least from what I'm seeing it is apparently no problem at all. I suspect many families see these machines as investments to get their kids through college. Maybe also they see them as status symbols. Whatever is going on the economic conditions are not part of the buying decision as I suspect compromises are made elsewhere to make sure the purchase of the laptop goes through.
There really isn't any such thing as a Pro machine. There are various levels of performance one can buy. Pros often gravitate to things like the AIRs because they are a better fit for their needs.
In the end it was probably a mistake for Apple to even use the word Pro in its naming conventions. People attach value to the word instead of the hardware. Of course maybe that was the intention.