[DECIDED Ford Escape Titanium, 2.0L I4, 4WD] In the market for new car (Mini-SUV)

[iPhonemaster5S]

Just saw this. Good pickup. The Q5 is one of my favorite CUVs out there, especially with the new 3.0TDI for MY14.

And Audi service isn't very expensive at all. I got AudiCare on my S7 for $880 and covers all services up to 45k. Not too bad for a $95k Audi. At that point, you can extend it. So far so good though. This is my second Audi (had a Q7 before) and have owned countless VWs. I don't buy the whole "German cars are junk" argument at all. I've never had any issues.
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x2. If you don't want to spend the extra coin on a used/CPO/new Q5, the Tiguan is a fantastic car.

Yeah the Tiguan is a very good car for those on a budget. You should really consider it and give it a test drive. If it's not to your liking it sounds like the escape would be good too. Good luck

Also autounion I take it that you are a big audi fan hence the username

 

[2298754]

Yeah the Tiguan is a very good car for those on a budget. You should really consider it and give it a test drive. If it's not to your liking it sounds like the escape would be good too. Good luck

Yup, the SE is a good value. The 2.0T engine in VWs is class leading.

I would steer clear of the Escape myself. Ford is having way too many quality issues recently for me to consider their products. There have been recalls for so many things, especially fire hazards. Ford has taken a nose dive in most dependability studies because of all these issues. Not to mention, MyFordTouch and Ford Sync are horrifically buggy. They don't work well at all. They'll never rival Toyota/Honda IMO.

If the VW was out of the running, my choice would be the Hyundai Santa Fe Sport. It is an amazing car and comes loaded to the gills with features, like a heated steering wheel, etc. Not to mention, Hyundai's long warranty. If the Hyundai was out, my choice would the RAV4. One can never go wrong with a Toyota.

Also autounion I take it that you are a big audi fan hence the username

Always been a huge fan of the Audi brand and their history

 

[quagmire]

Myfordtouch is the reason for Ford's fall in the rankings..... Not so much quality drops.....

Recalls are hardly startling news of Ford's being POS's or else Toyota would have fallen from grace.....

 

[jav6454]

Just saw this. Good pickup. The Q5 is one of my favorite CUVs out there, especially with the new 3.0TDI for MY14.

And Audi service isn't very expensive at all. I got AudiCare on my S7 for $880 and covers all services up to 45k. Not too bad for a $95k Audi. At that point, you can extend it. So far so good though. This is my second Audi (had a Q7 before) and have owned countless VWs. I don't buy the whole "German cars are junk" argument at all. I've never had any issues.
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x2. If you don't want to spend the extra coin on a used/CPO/new Q5, the Tiguan is a fantastic car.

$95k for a car is a little out of my league right now. Tiguan has less features than the competitor Escape at a higher price point (Tiguan being much more expensive).


As per Ford's recalls, I don't think they have had any issues on the new models that warrant the attention Toyota gathers due to faulty brakes or accelerators going hay-wire.

I don't like the SantaFe Sport simply due to the ride I took didn't feel right. Sorry, no go there.

Oh, the heated steering wheel is not a must-have for me.

 

[iPhonemaster5S]

$95k for a car is a little out of my league right now. Tiguan has less features than the competitor Escape at a higher price point (Tiguan being much more expensive).


As per Ford's recalls, I don't think they have had any issues on the new models that warrant the attention Toyota gathers due to faulty brakes or accelerators going hay-wire.

I don't like the SantaFe Sport simply due to the ride I took didn't feel right. Sorry, no go there.

Oh, the heated steering wheel is not a must-have for me.

Hmm interesting so remind me again what cars you were thinking of considering

 

[jav6454]

Hmm interesting so remind me again what cars you were thinking of considering

• Kia Sportage SX
• Ford Escape Titanium
• Volkswagon Tiguan SEL
• Hyundai SantaFe Sport
• Nissan Rogue SV
• Jeep Cherokee

I added the Cherokee to the list, although I feel it will end up not even be considered seriously.

At any point, the only feature that the Tiguan lacks and I would love (and the Escape has) is the Powerlift Gate.

Note: As per Ford's SyncMyTouch, I won't use it at all. In fact, any car's system won't be used since I'll let Siri handle everything. Crazy? Nope. Siri does work for me 99% of the time.

 

[iPhonemaster5S]

• Kia Sportage SX
• Ford Escape Titanium
• Volkswagon Tiguan SEL
• Hyundai SantaFe Sport
• Nissan Rogue SV
• Jeep Cherokee

I added the Cherokee to the list, although I feel it will end up not even be considered seriously.

At any point, the only feature that the Tiguan lacks and I would love (and the Escape has) is the Powerlift Gate.

Note: As per Ford's SyncMyTouch, I won't use it at all. In fact, any car's system won't be used since I'll let Siri handle everything. Crazy? Nope. Siri does work for me 99% of the time.

Well then I would still advise you to get the Tiguan. From what I have driven the vw feels better. (Not sure about you) if you can't live without the powerlift gate and won't be using the sync then the ford might do you just as well. It might end up coming down to what is the better deal.

 

[jav6454]

Well then I would still advise you to get the Tiguan. From what I have driven the vw feels better. (Not sure about you) if you can't live without the powerlift gate and won't be using the sync then the ford might do you just as well. It might end up coming down to what is the better deal.

Like I said, I test drove both vehicles. Tiguan had awesome handling and suspension. Ford just had that nice engine and smooth ride that felt (like many other have stated) like a floating vehicle.

Yes, the liftgate feature might be my turning point. At this point I am still a month or so from making my final decision, but it's good (IMO) that I already eliminated 3 cars.

I like to do research on potential expensive buys early (like now).

 

[puma1552]

looks like you are down to the right 3 choices, the others werent in the sameleague.

i know i mentioned it before but just a reminder the '14 tiguan sel is considerably more downmarket than the '13, since vw brought the r-line to the states for '14, which more or less slides into the sel slot.

so really its a '13 sel or a '14 r-line for what you want. '14s are just hitting dealer lots around here in the north this very week.

 

[sk1wbw]

Anyone mention the Jeep Grand Cherokee yet? Excellent SUV and is always rated highest in these categories.

 

[jav6454]

Anyone mention the Jeep Grand Cherokee yet? Excellent SUV and is always rated highest in these categories.

Grand Cherokee I didn't consider it since, IMO, the Gran Cherokee is along the the Explorer, Suburban class vehicles.

 

[quagmire]

Grand Cherokee I didn't consider it since, IMO, the Gran Cherokee is along the the Explorer, Suburban class vehicles.

Grand Cherokee/Explorer are a lot smaller than the Suburban.

If you were to get a Jeep, the Grand Cherokee is the one to get. It's among only two Jeep's that are truly Jeeps. It's nicely appointed. It may be a bit pricey to maintain since it shares the platform with the Mercedes ML350.

But since you're focusing on compact CUV's, I would go for the Escape. The Tiguan may be a bit more premium, but I don't quite trust VW with their quality yet and the cost of maintenance( unless you plan to ditch it when the free maintenance program is up) will be higher due to it being German.

 

[iPhonemaster5S]

Like I said, I test drove both vehicles. Tiguan had awesome handling and suspension. Ford just had that nice engine and smooth ride that felt (like many other have stated) like a floating vehicle.

Yes, the liftgate feature might be my turning point. At this point I am still a month or so from making my final decision, but it's good (IMO) that I already eliminated 3 cars.

I like to do research on potential expensive buys early (like now).

Well from what it sounds like you should look at the car that gets you the better deal. Try and see if you can get a quoute from the dealers and see which is gong to be more competitive. If the Ford ends up being less expensive and you like the experience there then maybe you should get the ford. If the VW gets you a better deal and has good service then maybe you should get the VW. Also you should take a look at resale value of these cars, VW is a growing car brand here in the U.S so their cars will hold their value better in the years. While ford is good it is starting to fluctuate, sales have been up but not to the growth VW is seeing. Also keep in mind VW dealers have a large "quota" to fulfill so you might get a better deal on the VW side because they re trying very hard for volume. Maybe this helps your decision.

 

[sk1wbw]

Grand Cherokee I didn't consider it since, IMO, the Gran Cherokee is along the the Explorer, Suburban class vehicles.

The Grand Cherokee is the same size basically as the Explorer, but much much smaller than a Suburban. I believe it is even smaller than a Tahoe.

 

[iPhonemaster5S]

Grand Cherokee/Explorer are mid-size CUV's. The Suburban is a long wheel base full size BOF SUV.

If you were to get a Jeep, the Grand Cherokee is the one to get. It's among only two Jeep's that are truly Jeeps. It's nicely appointed. It may be a bit pricey to maintain since it shares a platform with the Mercedes ML350.

But since you're focusing on compact CUV's, I would go for the Escape. The Tiguan may be a bit more premium, but I don't quite trust VW with their quality yet and the cost of maintenance( unless you plan to ditch it when the free maintenance program is up) will be higher due to it being German.

The myth about German cars not being reliable only applies to porsche. but when it comes to VW they are very robust you just can't miss any scheduled service and if you don't miss any service you will be fine and it will hold a long time.

The grand Cherokee is a great car however for the money you won't be getting the bang for your buck. If your willing to skimp on options then yes it would be a good car.

 

[2298754]

The myth about German cars not being reliable only applies to porsche.

That is false. Porsche is ranked right up there with Lexus for resale, fit/finish, dependability, and quality. They are, by far, the most reliable German brand out there.

 

[quagmire]

The myth about German cars not being reliable only applies to porsche. but when it comes to VW they are very robust you just can't miss any scheduled service and if you don't miss any service you will be fine and it will hold a long time.

The grand Cherokee is a great car however for the money you won't be getting the bang for your buck. If your willing to skimp on options then yes it would be a good car.

My dad has had two BMW's. An E46 330xi( which my brother has now) and an E90 335xi. They both have been fairly reliable. They both have had some issues. The E46 had a blown water pump at 45,000 miles. Then the pulley needed to be replaced at 70,000 miles. It started to roughly idle at 70,000 miles too. The dealer wanted to do an expensive repair job on it, but dad declined. When my brother took it, a new set of spark plugs solved the issue( probably all the time my dad put in regular gas....). So that was a stealership moment. Right now I believe it is at 140,000 miles. Since that time my brother has had to replace fuel injectors, window motors, control arms, etc. He is barely keeping it running.

With the E90, the computer went on the fritz at 30,000 miles and the door locks malfunctioned at 45,000 miles( locked my dad in the car). So far at 60,000 miles everything is still running smoothly.

I know VW has improved their quality and know yg17 defended his VW to death. But, I have also still heard horror stories with people who own VW's/Audi's. So I don't know if their quality level has gotten to the point where I will take a risk on them. It may sound funny considering I defend GM so much and their track record isn't so great either. I love how VW's drive, etc. I would probably buy the Tiguan over the Escape if I felt confident about VW.

The biggest issue though I have with German cars is the cost of maintenance. Once BMW's maintenance program expired, the E46 became expensive to maintain. Every service seemed to cost $500+. It's why my dad is going to buy a Cadillac ATS to replace the E90 in a few years. He is just tired of the cost of maintenance on BMW's. Not to mention the ATS is the better driving car now....

 

[iPhonemaster5S]

That is false. Porsche is ranked right up there with Lexus for resale, fit/finish, dependability, and quality. They are, by far, the most reliable German brand out there.

I was thinking if Pre full VW-Porsche merger. My old 2006 porsche 911 Turbo was an amazing car but had way too many issues, not reliable in any way. Heck most of the time if I was in a porsche it was a loaner . anyway off topic here.

Still think the Tiguan will be the better car over the escape IMHO.

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My dad has had two BMW's. An E46 330xi( which my brother has now) and an E90 335xi. They both have been fairly reliable. They both have had some issues. The E46 had a blown water pump at 45,000 miles. Then the pulley needed to be replaced at 70,000 miles. It started to roughly idle at 70,000 miles too. The dealer wanted to do an expensive repair job on it, but dad declined. When my brother took it, a new set of spark plugs solved the issue( probably all the time my dad put in regular gas....). So that was a stealership moment. Right now I believe it is at 140,000 miles. Since that time my brother has had to replace fuel injectors, window motors, control arms, etc. He is barely keeping it running.

With the E90, the computer went on the fritz at 30,000 miles and the door locks malfunctioned at 45,000 miles( locked my dad in the car). So far at 60,000 miles everything is still running smoothly.

I know VW has improved their quality and know yg17 defended his VW to death. But, I have also still heard horror stories with people who own VW's/Audi's. So I don't know if their quality level has gotten to the point where I will take a risk on them. It may sound funny considering I defend GM so much and their track record isn't so great either. I love how VW's drive, etc. I would probably buy the Tiguan over the Escape if I felt confident about VW.

The biggest issue though I have with German cars is the cost of maintenance. Once BMW's maintenance program expired, the E46 became expensive to maintain. Every service seemed to cost $500+. It's why my dad is going to buy a Cadillac ATS to replace the E90 in a few years. He is just tired of the cost of maintenance on BMW's. Not to mention the ATS is the better driving car now....

Yah that does sound troubling however the E46 was later known to be not very reliable. Actually the water pump was one of the most common problems so you might have lucked out. But they are premium for a reason pay for the experience and the service.

 

[2298754]

• Kia Sportage SX
• Ford Escape Titanium
• Volkswagon Tiguan SEL
• Hyundai SantaFe Sport
• Nissan Rogue SV
• Jeep Cherokee

I added the Cherokee to the list, although I feel it will end up not even be considered seriously.

At any point, the only feature that the Tiguan lacks and I would love (and the Escape has) is the Powerlift Gate.

Note: As per Ford's SyncMyTouch, I won't use it at all. In fact, any car's system won't be used since I'll let Siri handle everything. Crazy? Nope. Siri does work for me 99% of the time.

Skip the Jeep. It's hideous and I don't trust Chrysler quality just yet. They're still consistently ranked near the bottom.

You really can't go wrong with the Escape or the Tiguan at all. Both are fantastic cars. Unless you are really short, I honestly, don't think that the power liftgate is a huge deal. I'm more partial to VW, so Tiguan for me.

Have you considered the new RAV4? I was at the Toyota dealer with my father yesterday and played with one. Very nice car too.

Check this thread out
http://www.escape-city.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19977

TONS of quality issues with the Escapes so far.

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The biggest issue though I have with German cars is the cost of maintenance. Once BMW's maintenance program expired, the E46 became expensive to maintain. Every service seemed to cost $500+. It's why my dad is going to buy a Cadillac ATS to replace the E90 in a few years. He is just tired of the cost of maintenance on BMW's. Not to mention the ATS is the better driving car now....

I've always thought that you keep German cars until the warranty ends and then trade it in on a new one. Their strong resale value helps you here.

I've been keeping tabs on the ATS for the last year or so and even drove a loaded top spec 3.6 model. I'm not sure they're at BMW's level just yet. The interior feels low-rent, CUE is a disaster, and all the engines are overrated and underperforming (328i smokes the 2.0T ATS, same with the 335i smoking the 3.6 ATS). Not to mention, the automatic transmission's programming is junk, especially compared to the fantastic ZF 8AT in the BMW.

If you really wanted a reliable, long lasting entry luxo car, my choice is the new Lexus IS. It is FANTASTIC. And apparently drives better than both the ATS and 3 series.

I bet the next generation of Cadillacs will truly be on BMW's level. Can't wait!

 

[sk1wbw]

On the last episode of MotorWeek I watched, the Grand Cherokee beat every single one of these vehicles. I'd buy the Jeep before any of them.

 

[quagmire]

I've always thought that you keep German cars until the warranty ends and then trade it in on a new one. Their strong resale value helps you here. I've been keeping tabs on the ATS for the last year or so and even drove a loaded top spec 3.6 model. I'm not sure they're at BMW's level just yet. The interior feels low-rent, CUE is a disaster, and all the engines are overrated and underperforming (328i smokes the 2.0T ATS, same with the 335i smoking the 3.6 ATS). Not to mention, the automatic transmission's programming is junk, especially compared to the fantastic ZF 8AT in the BMW.

That is if you lease the BMW. My dad likes to own things outright.

I disagree with you on the ATS. The interior is better than the 3 series. BMW's have always been about function over form. Not a bad thing, just not visually appealing. Materials are not bad either. The ATS interior design is better and the materials are good too. I love the morello red interior with the carbon fiber trim. It's a nice understated red where BMW's red interior is bright and flashy.

When I first drove the ATS back in October when the ATS was just hitting dealer lots, yeah CUE was laggy and unresponsive. But, I drove it again last month and Cadillac has updated CUE with massive improvements. It's far more responsive and smooth now. The only thing I find to be lagging still is the zoom in/out on the map in navigation.

The biggest thing I have observed from videos complaining about CUE and from my own dad trying to use it is with the HVAC controls being completely touch controls. People are pressing the metal accents thinking it's part of the button or something. So when it doesn't immediately respond, it frustrates them. They need to know/remember the metal accents are just for decoration. They are not apart of the controls. Want to increase temperature? Press the red arrow only and the haptic feedback will tell you it registered.

As for driving, the only thing I find the ATS to be lacking compared to my dads 335xi is the engine. The 3.6 V6 is not a bad motor. But, the N54 is just in a different league due to the twin turbo's and all the torque being made at 1400 RPM. It just gives you a great experience. But, I found the chassis on the ATS especially with the magnetic shocks( only available on RWD models ) to be better than the 335xi. The steering felt more precise and when in the corners, my smile was bigger in the ATS than the 335xi.

As for straight line times which is good timing, the ATS's slower times looks to be all GM's software related. Motortrend recently compared a tuned 335i and a tuned ATS 3.6. The BMW had a ECM tune which increased power, etc. The ATS only had its shift points redone. The result? The ATS was only .1 second behind the 335i. Both had modified suspensions too. Maybe that played a bit of a role, but looks like a simple software change on the ATS will improve its straight line performance.

As for the Lexus IS... It's ugly. And it's a Toyota. Toyota's are just soulless cars with a few exceptions.

Also, I have a problem with the way the magazines reviewed these cars. It's entirely inconsistent. When the ATS came out and was compared to the F30 3 series, everyone loved it and preferred the ATS over the 3 series. Then later comparos came out and the ATS was either last or close to last. How can MT, C&D, etc say the ATS is better then have it lose so easily later? It pisses me off.

 

[iPhonemaster5S]

That is if you lease the BMW. My dad likes to own things outright.

I disagree with you on the ATS. The interior is better than the 3 series. BMW's have always been about function over form. Not a bad thing, just not visually appealing. Materials are not bad either. The ATS interior design is better and the materials are good too. I love the morello red interior with the carbon fiber trim. It's a nice understated red where BMW's red interior is bright and flashy.

When I first drove the ATS back in October when the ATS was just hitting dealer lots, yeah CUE was laggy and unresponsive. But, I drove it again last month and Cadillac has updated CUE with massive improvements. It's far more responsive and smooth now. The only thing I find to be lagging still is the zoom in/out on the map in navigation.

The biggest thing I have observed from videos complaining about CUE and from my own dad trying to use it is with the HVAC controls being completely touch controls. People are pressing the metal accents thinking it's part of the button or something. So when it doesn't immediately respond, it frustrates them. They need to know/remember the metal accents are just for decoration. They are not apart of the controls. Want to increase temperature? Press the red arrow only and the haptic feedback will tell you it registered.

As for driving, the only thing I find the ATS to be lacking compared to my dads 335xi is the engine. The 3.6 V6 is not a bad motor. But, the N54 is just in a different league due to the twin turbo's and all the torque being made at 1400 RPM. It just gives you a great experience. But, I found the chassis on the ATS especially with the magnetic shocks( only available on RWD models ) to be better than the 335xi. The steering felt more precise and when in the corners, my smile was bigger in the ATS than the 335xi.

As for straight line times which is good timing, the ATS's slower times looks to be all GM's software related. Motortrend recently compared a tuned 335i and a tuned ATS 3.6. The BMW had a ECM tune which increased power, etc. The ATS only had its shift points redone. The result? The ATS was only .1 second behind the 335i. Both had modified suspensions too. Maybe that played a bit of a role, but looks like a simple software change on the ATS will improve its straight line performance.

YouTube: video

As for the Lexus IS... It's ugly. And it's a Toyota. Toyota's are just soulless cars with a few exceptions.

Also, I have a problem with the way the magazines reviewed these cars. It's entirely inconsistent. When the ATS came out and was compared to the F30 3 series, everyone loved it and preferred the ATS over the 3 series. Then later comparos came out and the ATS was either last or close to last. How can MT, C&D, etc say the ATS is better then have it lose so easily later? It pisses me off.

They say that because they are paid to a certain degree. Also keep in mind its easier to say you like a car with no comparison. When they tested the ats they didn't test a BMW side by side so they liked it, however when they did they found out that the BMW was better. I still prefer Audi over BMW or Mercedes but that's only my opinion and my garage shows that . But how about going back on topic and lets try and be useful instead of having an argument over cars that are out of the OP's segment of interest. So far its between the Tiguan and the Escape. So far the Escape has a slight advantage that it has the power-lift gate, no German car breaking down stigma. The Tiguan drives better from my expeience and the OP's as well I believe. I think that it is a very close decision for you, I would honestly go off of price. Take whatever you get the better deal on.

Edit: what was the price range you were at and what is your budget?

 

[quagmire]

They say that because they are paid to a certain degree. Also keep in mind its easier to say you like a car with no comparison. When they tested the ats they didn't test a BMW side by side so they liked it, however when they did they found out that the BMW was better. I still prefer Audi over BMW or Mercedes but that's only my opinion and my garage shows that .

The early reviews did have the F30 3 series there to compare it to.

 

[2298754]

Also, I have a problem with the way the magazines reviewed these cars. It's entirely inconsistent. When the ATS came out and was compared to the F30 3 series, everyone loved it and preferred the ATS over the 3 series. Then later comparos came out and the ATS was either last or close to last. How can MT, C&D, etc say the ATS is better then have it lose so easily later? It pisses me off.

No check this time around?

I've wondered the same thing though. Maybe after all the hoopla of "BMW-killing" ATS has dissipated, the magazines realized that it really wasn't all that great?

 

[jav6454]

Skip the Jeep. It's hideous and I don't trust Chrysler quality just yet. They're still consistently ranked near the bottom.

You really can't go wrong with the Escape or the Tiguan at all. Both are fantastic cars. Unless you are really short, I honestly, don't think that the power liftgate is a huge deal. I'm more partial to VW, so Tiguan for me.

Have you considered the new RAV4? I was at the Toyota dealer with my father yesterday and played with one. Very nice car too.

Check this thread out
http://www.escape-city.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19977

TONS of quality issues with the Escapes so far.

[...]

Thanks. I saw the webpage, and I see most of those recalls and quality issues are centered around the 1.6L EcoBoost and the 2013 models.

Mine is bound to be the beefier 2.0L EcoBoost and a 2014 model. Just like when Apple releases a new Mac (Retina style), I am hoping that by this year's model, all quirks and kinks should be ironed out; the process should be more streamlined.

However, I am still at that stage. I am not short, at 5'10.5", I like to think as average not short. As per the liftgate, I have had the need several times to need it. I am the one who packs things into the car (as I hate stuff flying all over the place), and I am of the "One-Trip" mentality when packing (or unpacking) the car. So it does come quite handy to have said feature.

I am going to visit Toyota sometime this week.

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Well from what it sounds like you should look at the car that gets you the better deal. Try and see if you can get a quoute from the dealers and see which is gong to be more competitive. If the Ford ends up being less expensive and you like the experience there then maybe you should get the ford. If the VW gets you a better deal and has good service then maybe you should get the VW. Also you should take a look at resale value of these cars, VW is a growing car brand here in the U.S so their cars will hold their value better in the years. While ford is good it is starting to fluctuate, sales have been up but not to the growth VW is seeing. Also keep in mind VW dealers have a large "quota" to fulfill so you might get a better deal on the VW side because they re trying very hard for volume. Maybe this helps your decision.

That is what I am actually starting to do with regards to my final decision. I am now factoring in Warranty (Bumper-Bumper and Powertrain) as well as any perks the dealer would like to throw in to sweeten the deal.