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Dell Digital Jukebox and Dell Music Store

we all knew the ipod knock-offs we're coming, but seeing everyone trying to jump on the web music store trail is pretty funny. unless these other music stores can make things as smooth, clean, and simple as apple, they will not make it. if apple can just get the pc version of itunes out to ensure they take a good chunk of the market, apple will certainly be the last one standing with the best product.
 
Re: Madly amused.

Originally posted by Belly-laughs
Stop defending your dad, man! If you ask him I bet he´d rather work at Apple.
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dude, i am not defending my dad. that was just a joke. i don't like dell, myself, but you must realize that like 70% of these replies are so full of people who mindlessly adore anything apple does and categorically condemn everyone else as unoriginal, cheap, stupid, tasteless, and so on.

and no, my dad would not work for apple, i don't think. he's not big on industrial design.
 
Re: None of the have the 'coolness'

Originally posted by jaykk
This is the real rip off of ipod.

I can't believe its not iPod: Zen NX jukebox launches

All these companies will alwsys copy, but apple will bring the 'next big thing' and it will take them 2 yrs or more to copy. But none of them gets the 'coolness' factor apple brings. And of late, even sony can't bring that coolness. No wonder iPod have a huge marketshare in Japan. You will see a lot of dullpods on the street, but only one mp3 player stands out from the rest of it, and that is our beloved iPod from apple. I doubt Dell or Gates can ever bring that "coolness" factor to their products. Gates and Dell is more successful than Jobs if you measure in terms pure money they are minting, but Jobs' vision is different.
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..... that thing looks nothing like an iPod...
 
Re: Re: Madly amused.

Originally posted by shadowfax
dude, i am not defending my dad. that was just a joke. i don't like dell, myself, but you must realize that like 70% of these replies are so full of people who mindlessly adore anything apple does and categorically condemn everyone else as unoriginal, cheap, stupid, tasteless, and so on.

and no, my dad would not work for apple, i don't think. he's not big on industrial design.
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Wrong if the pcee world came out a product that is worth having I would buy it but they don't and that's a sad fact...and the reason I bash Dell is because he just copies Apple the others do not they make a nock off and sell it but they do go around saying is innovation or are the first. There is a big difference there...the pcee industry is an stand still with innovation and waiting for Apple to come out with the next big thing and that is sad for a company like Dell that makes millions to wait for someone else to created it and they just copy it but then again the whole pcee industry is like that...so can't wait for next big innovation from Dell ;)
 
Re: Re: Re: Madly amused.

Originally posted by Wash!!
Wrong if the pcee world came out a product that is worth having I would buy it but they don't and that's a sad fact...and the reason I bash Dell is because he just copies Apple the others do not they make a nock off and sell it but they do go around saying is innovation or are the first. There is a big difference there...the pcee industry is an stand still with innovation and waiting for Apple to come out with the next big thing and that is sad for a company like Dell that makes millions to wait for someone else to created it and they just copy it but then again the whole pcee industry is like that...so can't wait for next big innovation from Dell ;)
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dude, you need to learn to express yourself. that was extremely confusing to read.

i find your referral of your opinions as "facts" the most telling fallacy in your argument.

one thing you should consider is that this is not a black white world, this computer world. apple has made more than its share of copies. the mouse it touts was.... designed by someone else. their fancy windows environment was.... someone else's idea. you have to understand at a very basic level that there's a difference between design-inspired-by and "ripping off."
 
FYI
macs are PCs thus 'the worlds fastest Personal Computer"

Where was the innovation in making the ipod, it's just a mp3 player. When i first bought my mac, i was told about mac fanatics and didnt believe it, but now i am seeing it.
 
Re: Yes they do

Originally posted by Wash!!
Everytime they come out and say that came out with a innovate product that is a copy of an Apple product sample " We are the first laptop with wireless connectivity" duh!! Ti powerbook please sing that song to some one else. All the pcee world is the same they copy whatever Apple comes out with...
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Clamshell iBook, actually, but good point.
 
Re: That's the way the world works

Originally posted by Wash!!
So be it, but Dell and pcee world still copying Apple anyway you look at it, and life goes on...
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no, you missed my point. apple is as guilty as stealing others' ideas as any company in the PC industry.
 
Re: Re: That's the way the world works

Originally posted by shadowfax
no, you missed my point. apple is as guilty as stealing others' ideas as any company in the PC industry.
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Not quite.

The trip to Xerox PARC was under agreement with Xerox, as was the later use (and refinement) of the GUI.
 
Re: Re: Re: That's the way the world works

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Not quite.

The trip to Xerox PARC was under agreement with Xerox, as was the later use (and refinement) of the GUI.
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ah, so if you get permission to take someone's idea, you aren't copying it?
 
Shadowfax first makes the claim that Apple "stole" the idea from Xerox PARC.

Phil of Mac replies that Apple didn't steal because Xerox agreed to let Apple see the technology it was working on (Apple actually paid for this right by giving Xerox $1 million of its stock).

Shadowfax then come back and then says Apple is now suddenly guilty of "copying" and not stealing, as he originally claimed.

In an effort to dismiss many of the myths about what happened between Xerox PARC and Apple in those early years, I would suggest everyone read this personal account by Jeff Raskin (who worked at Xerox PARC, by the way, and later moved to Apple):

http://mxmora.best.vwh.net/JefRaskin.html

It's quite amusing to see people not versed in what Xerox PARC did constantly claiming Apple stole the idea, when the vast majority of GUI concepts that were implemented on the Lisa, and then the Mac, NEVER EXISTED AT XEROX.

It's quite clear that the Mac GUI introduced many original concepts on the very limited, awkward-to-use UI that existed at PARC.

Yes, you can say that Apple took inspiration from the PARC visit, but that is wholly different from copying. You can still be inspired by something and not copy (especially when things like being able to drag icons with the mouse was something the Xerox PARC researchers never thought of - heck, icons weren't even associated with files, they instead acted like buttons or applets!).

If Apple "stole" from Xerox, it's like accusing Beethoven of stealing from Mozart, or saying that "West Side Story" was a rip-off of Shakespeare.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: That's the way the world works

Originally posted by shadowfax
ah, so if you get permission to take someone's idea, you aren't copying it?
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Apple tooks those ideas and made them work they did not stold them and they improved on them adding their own things Dell just copies them and they claim to invented them just like any other pcee manufacture "not invented here", they have taken lessons from m$ school of business why create something better when I can copied and claim they invented.

Apple is the only real innovator in the pc industry and the other with all they millons can even come up with an original idea even if their lives depend on it.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: That's the way the world works

Originally posted by Wash!!
Apple tooks those ideas and made them work they did not stold them and they improved on them adding their own things Dell just copies them and they claim to invented them just like any other pcee manufacture "not invented here", they have taken lessons from m$ school of business why create something better when I can copied and claim they invented.

Apple is the only real innovator in the pc industry and the other with all they millons can even come up with an original idea even if their lives depend on it.
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ok. you assert that dell "just copied" and "stold." explain how the scrolling wheel is a carbon copy of apple's (if you think it is, explain why apple's isn't a carbon copy of the scroll wheels on mice), and why the buttons are arranged differently. also, prove that the firmware is taken from apple, or at least that it functions the same.
 
The scroll wheel was some else

It was compaq or IBM can remember which made it not Dell (by the way take chill pill dude it just a computer) have fun with it. it's not a matter of life ot death. And I'm not saying that Apple invented everything but at least they are innovators

got to home now bye
 
Re: Re: Madly amused.

Originally posted by shadowfax
you must realize that like 70% of these replies are so full of people who mindlessly adore anything apple does and categorically condemn everyone else as unoriginal, cheap, stupid, tasteless, and so on.
Click to expand...

I've tried to convince people of this fact shadowfax. The 30% who are actually thinking fairly agree, the 70% who are 'mindless adorers' of apple disagree saying apple really has the superior products without giving the other product a thought.

This is when people stop being fans and start being bigots.


As for the topic of this thread:

The computer industry evolves as a whole.

Apple is guilty of copying and stealing ideas from other companies, and other companies are guilty of copying and stealing ideas from apple. Companys have to steal from each other to stay on top of the game. Apple is just as guilty as Dell.

scem0
 
You can't morally equivalize everyone and everything, scem0. That's not objectivity, that's simplistic thinking. For all Apple's faults, they do not rip people off. Whether Dell is ripping off Apple or not (I'm guessing not), Apple has always gone the legitimate route in their dealings with other people's concepts and ideas, particularly those of Xerox PARC.

Is Dell trying to copy Apple's music business? Sure. Is that a bad thing? No. It's not ripping off Apple. The Chevrolet El Camino was based on the same basic concept of the Ford Ranchero, but that's becuase the Ranchero defined an entire new class of vehicle (a car with a truck bed). So, much like the iPod has defined an entire new class of device, we cannot fault Dell for making a device of the same class.

One may say, correctly, that the iPod was neither the first MP3 player nor the first hard-drive based MP3 player. That is correct. One may also correctly say that Elvis Presley wasn't the first rock and roll musician. However, much like Elvis, the iPod is the one that gave compressed digital music the critical mass, and took upon itself all the demand for such a device that it created. In other words, the iPod is "The King".
 
Philips HD-100

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Philips entry to this market - http://www.audio.philips.com/PI/hdd.asp - which at the time I first saw their simulation of the interface immediately said "iPod knockoff" to me.

The only thing not clear in their demo - I've not seen one for real - is how their scroll mechanism works.
 
From AppleInsider

Originally posted by MacsRGood4U
09-25-dell-jukebox.jpg


My guess on price is $199-$249. We'll know later today I think.
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Is that an official picture? If so, it's ugly. Just make it beige!
To Dell:
Beige at least goes in harmony. Fake silver and brown look bad together! Apple White-haters, take a look!:err:
 
Re: Philips HD-100

Originally posted by jrg_i
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Philips entry to this market - http://www.audio.philips.com/PI/hdd.asp - which at the time I first saw their simulation of the interface immediately said "iPod knockoff" to me.

The only thing not clear in their demo - I've not seen one for real - is how their scroll mechanism works.
Click to expand...


The Philips one looks much better than the dullpod, at least they got the better color combination.
 
They say it’s Big! It’s Ugly! It’s a knock-off! Well I heard this all before from HP die-hards when Dell entered the PDA market in the fourth quarter of last year with the Axim X5 PDA, Now look… their already No. 4, with a 6.5 percent share of the PDA market sales with that big ugly PDA of a rip-off everyone said wouldn’t sell. I’m neither an Apple hater nor a Dell hater but as stated on this forum before (The competition is good because it keeps the other on their toes producing Quality for less $). I’ll admit that I won’t be getting the Dell DJ (The iPod is defiantly more appealing) but I’m sure this will create a price-drop on the iPods soon!
 
Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
You can't morally equivalize everyone and everything, scem0. That's not objectivity, that's simplistic thinking. For all Apple's faults, they do not rip people off. Whether Dell is ripping off Apple or not (I'm guessing not), Apple has always gone the legitimate route in their dealings with other people's concepts and ideas, particularly those of Xerox PARC.

Is Dell trying to copy Apple's music business? Sure. Is that a bad thing? No. It's not ripping off Apple. The Chevrolet El Camino was based on the same basic concept of the Ford Ranchero, but that's becuase the Ranchero defined an entire new class of vehicle (a car with a truck bed). So, much like the iPod has defined an entire new class of device, we cannot fault Dell for making a device of the same class.

One may say, correctly, that the iPod was neither the first MP3 player nor the first hard-drive based MP3 player. That is correct. One may also correctly say that Elvis Presley wasn't the first rock and roll musician. However, much like Elvis, the iPod is the one that gave compressed digital music the critical mass, and took upon itself all the demand for such a device that it created. In other words, the iPod is "The King".
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that was a nice, balanced post i wholeheartedly agree with. that's more or less what i mean about apple--the ideas that they take they appropriate in a valid fashion--it's not ripping off--but i don't think that the dell thing can be called ripping off, if you say that what apple does is legitimate (and it is).

your analogy is perfect, the iPod is a definition of a class of mp3 player. the DellPod looks similar, as such, being a new player in the class, but it's not a rip-off. it's a portable hd-based mp3 that is intended to compete directly with the iPod, in the same way that 2 businesses have sports cars that compete with one another. this is a fantabulously awesome phenomenon, it's the capstone of capitalism. Apple needs competition to innovate.

i am not arguing the iPod's place as king and first. that's clear enough. the damn thing is revolutionary, and i love mine to death. but calling anything that competes with it a "rip-off" just proves you're an applehead with no head.
 
The iPod hasn't changed appreciably in years. Apple chose to license an OS from Pixo rather than keep it proprietary. It's not surprising that the OS vendor would start selling into similar devices now that the have a foothold somewhere...

Speaking of which, what happened to Pixo OS-- they don't mention it on their site at all...

I am a little disappointed that when someone finally came along to challenge iPod, they didn't add anything to it...

Though not surprised, I guess I'm a little disappointed to see the obvious efforts to mimic the iPod. I like new designs more than old designs that someone tried to drive a few pennies out of. My guess: Dell took a team of engineers and ID folks and said, "Build me something that will compete with this [iPod]".

I think it'll do quite well-- people will see this as the Windows response to the iPod. Yes, iPod has been available for Windoze for a while, but most people I know don't believe me when I tell them-- or they think it requires special software to inferface with, or it requires Firewire ports on your PC, or...

In the end I think all is good. A whole bunch of folks will start buying the DJ and they'll get addicted to being able to carry their music with them. If it's built anything like Dell's other products, it'll fall apart in 2 years and people will need to replace it so they'll look for something better built-- iPod.

Not to mention I think having more of these things out there is crucial-- it legitimizes the market. The labels are still messing around with techniques to prevent loading music on MP3 players-- now Dell has a stake in the game too. As long as people still dislike WinDRM, all's well.
 
One thing I learned in one of my business classes at school is that either you're going to be on the bleeding edge or you're going to follow up. Being on the bleeding edge has its obvious advantages, but following up also has its advantages. You can see what your forerunners did first and learn from their mistakes, while holding or even improving on their strengths.

Ironically, Apple's business model has not been to be on the bleeding edge, with very few exceptions. The Newton and the QuickTake camera were two of these examples, and with both of these, Apple actually felt the burn. With the Newton, Apple learned the hard way that "Beat Up Martin" and "Eat Up Martha" were not the same thing. (An interesting footnote to the Newton story: The Newton's handwriting recognition was based on work that was done by the Soviet military. An ex-Russian agent actually met an Apple employee at a hotel to discreetly hand off the code!) The Newton evolved into a great machine that hasn't yet been caught up to, but the first model was rushed, and not that good. The QuickTake was also flawed.

However, in everything else, Apple followed up.

1. Personal computing itself: The Apple I came after the Altair.
2. The GUI and mouse interface. Apple did a LOT of innovation over Xerox's work when they worked on the Lisa, and later, the Macintosh. And they even had Xerox's permission (and investments).
3. The iPod.

The difference between Apple and Dell, is that Apple tries to improve upon things. Dell just sells a cheaper version, which is a perfectly legitimate business model.

Apple's way is more admirable, in a way. Dell's is also successful, however. Apple shoots high in quality, and consequentially in price, while Dell shoots low in price, and consequentially in quality. Two business models.

I guess that, in a way, Apple and its users get to laugh at Dell in an elitist manner. But it's not like Dell's being dishonorable. (However, Dell does, sometimes, claim they're the first to sell a wireless notebook, which is a legitimate gripe.

And for a parting shot: Without Apple, there can be no Dell. Without Apple, whose products is Dell going to make cheap knockoffs of?
 
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