Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Dell DJ, Samsung YP-910GS, and iPod

Originally posted by LimeLite
Wow. What?
Click to expand...

LOL. I have no idea what Sabenth was saying either, and I'm from the same city! :D

FM transmitters don't work very well here in Melbourne because there is no bloody gaps in the spectrum, every time I find a good frequency with my iTrip another bloody station causes static!:mad:

Off Topic: I swear five FM stations were playing the same song at the same time the other day, it sucked too.
 
Originally posted by Codemonkey
And when was the original iPod released? That's fine, you can like it, it was/is a good MP3 player, but to compare the Dell player to a 1st Gen iPod, based on the *evolution* of digital devices certainly doesn't say much for the Dell.
Click to expand...

I was talking about looks, nothing else.

"Hey, this 2003 model car reminds me of the Edsel! I think it'll sell!"

Mmmmmmm....no.
Click to expand...

I guess you haven't seen how well the Thunderbird, Prowler and others are selling. Not to mention the new cars like the Mustang etc. that are going with the old designs. People like it and they're buying it.
 
Originally posted by Juventuz
I was talking about looks, nothing else.

I guess you haven't seen how well the Thunderbird, Prowler and others are selling. Not to mention the new cars like the Mustang etc. that are going with the old designs. People like it and they're buying it.
Click to expand...

Those cars are specifically designed to drum up memories of baby boomers in their "younger years".

I'm sorry for bringing up the car analogy because 100% of the time it always gets misinterpreted and badly mutated as such a broad topic always does. Anyway - you can't compare the outright obvious nostalgia stylings of those cars with something that *apparentlly* is trying to compete with the most bleeding edge MP3 players on the market. Your extraplation of my analogy fell apart.

If Dell *meant* to design something that resembled a 2 year old product, then kudos to them.

Anyway, I'm done. I retract my car analogy, it always turns into a fustercluck.
 
All this talk of FM receivers and transmitters leads to another point: the iPod is far, far ahead in third party peripheral support.

Another issue with the Dell is where you can buy it. If it is limited to Dell's online site the I feel it will do poorly. You can touch and experience an iPod almost anywhere (Target, CompUSA, BestBuy, Circuit City) but you may only get to see the Dell DJ on the website and on Dell Mall carts. I'm not sure how good the competition from Napster will be. Roxio doesn't have the resources of Apple and also is using a name that is related to free downloads. Maybe not such a good idea for the pay service.
 
Reply to Phil

"Alameda, you couldn't be more wrong."

I don't agree that Apple is agressively pricing the iPod. I think it is a fact that Apple has the highest margins in the industry. So my conclusion is that they are marking up the iPod significantly. I would certainly like to know how much it actually costs them to make. Might be an interesting thread on its own?


Apples declining market share was in my opinion due to price. This is exactly my point about the Ipod and my point that I think Apple will repeat history with the Ipod.


Okay lets not nit pick about dates 1995, early 90's what does it matter, it happened.

I don't think Apple is on a rising curve I think it is more like : If apple hadn't brought out a new OS and flat panel macs and Ipod they would be toast by now. I think Apple is just treading water and I think Apple needs to get its prices even further down. I don't think they can sit back and say "Hey our products are superior and that justfies the higher price". I think only a foolish person would take that stand and their histoy in the 90's I believe proves it.

So my conclusion is that Apple is not really interested in market share, if it was interested in market share it would reduce it's margins to the industry norm.

I think Apple has simply, as usual, developed a superior product and is milking it now for a fast buck. Others will eventually make their players as good as they need to be for most folks and in 5 years we will be waxing nostalgic about the Ipod and wondering how crappy mp3players could knock Apple's Ipod from 70% down to 5% market share.

And don't get me onto to Apple hype I'll have to reach for the sickbag. Watching Steve's eyes glaze over like an over excited schoolboy is quite sickening. And as for his taste in music arghhhhhh

Well one thing I agree with you about is Apple smugness. I can sense it's glow all the way from here to Cupertino across the bay
 
I really hope Apple doesn't put a radio in the iPod. Radio blows.

I would like a built in voice recorder though.
 
when are we (mac users) gonna get it?

it is ALL about substandard companies coming in and delivering "almost" products for cheaper. this has been the case all along and will continue to be the case and is the number one reason why Apple loses marketshare all over the place.
the fact is, Monopolosoft (or Dell or whoever) can come to market with a product that loses money (XBox, Dell DJ etc.) and is almost always inferior and wait it out until the other companies die off because they aren't "standard." i GUARANTEE that Microsoft will push some piece of junk that will play .wma files and use Windows Media Player for audio/video be "almost" as good as the iPod for $50-$100 less. Apple will wait about 6-12 months before they lower price to compete, Microsoft will already have gained a foothold, fast forward 5 years-iPod has 10% market share of portable audio players.

this post was right on:
"That's not true at all. Microsoft will gladly give an inch if it means they might gain a foot later. Just look at thier strategy in Asia which, might I say, is cruel and evil yet pure genius. They're taking advantage of rampant software piracy in Asia to make sure that their products have the widest user base possible, and that Asia is utterly dependant on their platform. Then the rug gets pulled out from under them with Longhorn, and an entire sub-contenent that has never payed a dime for software is standing face-to-face with a brand new and frightening concept -- in order to have software on your computer, you must first pay for it."

this is a sad but true fact. pay attention to the console game market in the next three years and that is your model for what will happen to the iPod.
Dreamcast is already dead, Gamecube is dying, Playstation is hanging on. 3 years-Sega, Nintendo, Sony developing games for the XBox. period.
we are all waiting for Longhorn in the desperate hope that it will drive people to the Mac. here's hoping...

j
 
Sorry Guys had to vent what i really meant to say was that this is just another copy cat syndrome Apple Make a great product everyone in the PC World go jeez they did it again and start going ok so thats how we should do it ok..

The FM Thing its just so daft really i see it like this if you need to use fm that either states that the taste in music that your are using on the iPod/ what ever is either really just getting repetitive cant see if you have 20 gig or more . or you really do like comercials ..

jerem iam from the UK Orginaly and the radio stations that are comercal based here have more or less the same playlist triple m really winds me up as with fox fm and other such likes thats why i tend to use iTunes at work rather than the radio

and dont get me wrong the UK Stations suck too ..

just dont like the idea of adding extra cost to somthing so simple as the iPod sorry for blowing up like an idiot get like that some times.. dont like people messing with things that work just fine as they are ie Copy cats need these extras to try and sell there product..
 
Perhaps Apple has got it in a rather negative kind of way.

Perhaps the marketing folks at apple know that they will never compete on a long term basis and their tactic is to just innovate and innovate and make as much money out of their innovations before the "cheaper- almost as good copies" obliterate their advantage. This would explain the high prices.

Kinda sad really - if it is true?
But a lil bird tells me the mac comminity prefers to remain aloof in it's ivory tower.

I suppose they will then remain a niche company for ever.

You pay your money and take your chance. Maybe we should all stop putting so must expectation on Apples products becomimg a standard and leave that up to the "hell freezes over crowd"
 
Re: Reply to Phil

Originally posted by alameda20
I don't agree that Apple is agressively pricing the iPod. I think it is a fact that Apple has the highest margins in the industry.
Click to expand...

As a corporation. PowerBooks and such are high-margin products. That doesn't preclude Apple from selling other products at low margins, such as the iPod.

Originally posted by alameda20
So my conclusion is that they are marking up the iPod significantly. I would certainly like to know how much it actually costs them to make. Might be an interesting thread on its own?
Click to expand...

The actual hard drive is in the triple digits itself, under $200 but over $100. Add the firmware, R&D, hardware, industrial design, it's easy to add another hundred or two.

Originally posted by alameda20
Apples declining market share was in my opinion due to price. This is exactly my point about the Ipod and my point that I think Apple will repeat history with the Ipod.
Click to expand...

You're seriously oversimplifying. Poor marketing, atrocious developer relations, and continual crises were very much a cause. Pinning it on price alone is oversimplifying. And even if overpricing was a factor, the iPod is not overpriced. It is not priced significantly above the competitors, especially on relation to the quality of the product.

Originally posted by alameda20
I don't think Apple is on a rising curve I think it is more like : If apple hadn't brought out a new OS and flat panel macs and Ipod they would be toast by now. I think Apple is just treading water and I think Apple needs to get its prices even further down. I don't think they can sit back and say "Hey our products are superior and that justfies the higher price". I think only a foolish person would take that stand and their histoy in the 90's I believe proves it.
Click to expand...

Apple *is* on a rising curve. Market share is increasing, profits are increasing, product quality is increasing. Every since 1997, Apple has been resurgent. The turnaround was more or less complete by 1999, and from then on it was just growth and improvement.

Originally posted by alameda20
So my conclusion is that Apple is not really interested in market share, if it was interested in market share it would reduce it's margins to the industry norm.
Click to expand...

You're right, Apple isn't excessively interested in market share. Not enough to cut back on quality and build crap just to sell for a low price. That's Dell's business model, not Apple's.

The reason Apple's market share declined can be pinned down to one reason: Microsoft Windows, and the agreement that Sculley signed granting Apple IP to Microsoft. That's not gonna happen with iPod.
 
The art of War

Microsoft is really more of a Japanese model company than an American Company:

In the Art of War: The main premise is "You never start a war" unless your opponent has already lost" Microsoft has been running a strtegic war ever since it was founded.

Companies like Apple bringing out Ipods or whatever are no threat to MS because MS has already won the war. One of the last posters already described the end game of the war which MS has started on Asia.

Apple does not have the goal of world domination thus it 's strategy isn't to dominate a market place. If it wanted to play that game it would need to be of a size to be able to sell a loss leading product which would spring board it's other products on board so to speak. The fact that Apple came out with itunes for Windows is a acceptance that it isn't fighting a war - indeed it lost that years ago. Itunes for windows is only an attempt to try to keep its Ipod market share for as long as possible going forward. Indeed without it's jukebox on windoze the demise of the ipod would just be hastened. They put enough control into itunes to stop other players from syncing to itunes. But it isn't really that hard to have itunes as your Windows juke box and another jukebox to sync those songs to a cheaper player. Just wait it hasn't really stared yet. Once someone figurs out how to crack itunes for windows noone needs an Ipod anymore right?
 
Re: The art of War

Originally posted by alameda20
Microsoft is really more of a Japanese model company than an American Company:

In the Art of War: The main premise is "You never start a war" unless your opponent has already lost" Microsoft has been running a strtegic war ever since it was founded.

Companies like Apple bringing out Ipods or whatever are no threat to MS because MS has already won the war. One of the last posters already described the end game of the war which MS has started on Asia.

Apple does not have the goal of world domination thus it 's strategy isn't to dominate a market place. If it wanted to play that game it would need to be of a size to be able to sell a loss leading product which would spring board it's other products on board so to speak. The fact that Apple came out with itunes for Windows is a acceptance that it isn't fighting a war - indeed it lost that years ago. Itunes for windows is only an attempt to try to keep its Ipod market share for as long as possible going forward. Indeed without it's jukebox on windoze the demise of the ipod would just be hastened. They put enough control into itunes to stop other players from syncing to itunes. But it isn't really that hard to have itunes as your Windows juke box and another jukebox to sync those songs to a cheaper player. Just wait it hasn't really stared yet. Once someone figurs out how to crack itunes for windows noone needs an Ipod anymore right?
Click to expand...

Well, seeing as a crack for iTunes would be illegal there might be some issues.

Wow. What cynicism - maybe a troll. M$ has won the war? I don't know about that. The x86 is on its way out at some point in the future. Apple-IBM-AMD are all promoting the PowerPC as the successor, Intel is going with Itanium. There's another battle brewing here.

As for Apple, I don't think they want the market dominance of Microsoft. I think they'd like to have 15-25% of the overall market because they want to be an innovative hardware company. To do this, they must keep the Mac platform closed. This also means that the Mac, especially running OSX, will always be more reliable and more stable than the PC because it is more controlled. It also means it will cost more.

And just to let you know on the margins, Apple hardly makes any money on the educational models. I believe they make about $15-30 on all the other models if they sell for the regular prices. Remember, they must account for distribution - they make a lot more if you order from them directly. Dell won't have to get the distribution fees and give profits to organizations like Best Buy. But Apple can't give discounts for ordering from them because that'll be a quick way to kill your distributors. Also, remember Apple's R&D costs across their product lines impact any profit they make. They also have a big head start here. As technology gets cheaper, so will the iPods - and they'll add features before anyone else. They'll also work best with the software. I also can say that they won't have as many build quality issues as the Dells or Smasungs. I expect the initial Dells to run a 10-15% failure rate within one year - and that's not good.
 
Originally posted by madforrit
Ugh....copy copy copy.

Haha, but they'll never be the cultural symbol that the ipod has become.

:D
Click to expand...

I think calling the iPod a cultural symbol is a bit over the top. Most people don't even know what an iPod is. I went to 3 halloween parties and not only adults, but also kids my age (teens) asked what I was. And no, it is not becasue my ipod costume was so horrible....
 
Underlining the main things that make the iPod so great = the fact that Mac users know what iPod is windows on the other hand are only just starting to see what benfits Apple can offer and with new compertion from dell and co its going to prove very intresting to see who comes out on top i have a feeling its going to be the sh!it hits the fan for a while then when it all settles i think apple will win this one ..
 
Originally posted by Capt Underpants
I think calling the iPod a cultural symbol is a bit over the top. Most people don't even know what an iPod is. I went to 3 halloween parties and not only adults, but also kids my age (teens) asked what I was. And no, it is not becasue my ipod costume was so horrible....
Click to expand...

That's because you're trapped in Loserville, no offense. Those of us who know what's going on know about the iPod.
 
cnet poll on portable players

Some interesting stats I've seen on cnet....

Right now they are having a "Love it" or "Leave it" poll for the latest in eletronic accessories. The YP-910GS (god that's lame...) Napter Player is "Love it's" at 1725 (28%) and "Leave it's" at 4399 (72%)... iPod Killer?? Not! :)

On the other hand, the iRiver iHP-120 coming in almost 50/50 w/ "Love's" at 4227 (51%) and "Leave's" at 3988 (49%)

No other digital music players were included in this poll...

It's not really possible to see how the iPod is going to do against the Dell player, but I'll be interested to see once the Jukebox is finally been out for a while.

I think there are going to be strong sales for some of the other players, but I still don't really expect to see anything surpass iPod.

It's about time we get another company considered to be the top in a specific area of technology besides Dell or M$. In this case, it looks as if in the arena of digital music, Apple might just be that company. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back