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greenstork said:
I posted this in another forum but it seems relevant to this discussion:

Software may be the soul of Apple, but it's a business like any other, it's survival and success based on profit.

Most of their core software comes free on new computers, some simple math for you:

OS Upgrade : Tiger $129
iLife: $79

vs.

iMac: $1300-$1800
Power Mac: $1500-3000

Hardware may not define Apple (arguably), but it certainly sustains it, and fuels creativity. This corporate reality can not be underestimated. Apple is in the business of selling systems, of which there is a hardware and software component. This is their niche and they're quite successful at it.

There is no chance OS X will end up on a Dell. Apple didn't expand into retail around the world so they could sell iPods, Tiger and Final Cut Pro.

However consider this- Love or hate Dell what they have achieved in becoming the largest PC manufacturer is that they have made the product a commodity- IBM got out of the PC manufacturing business for this very fact. Others will follow as the margins become ever more thinner.

Dell will still be there because it was they that commodotised the market and they have the capacity and economies of scale to survive

It is in this respect that it makes sense and inevitable that Apple WILL at some point allow OSX to be licensed to generic manufacturers

Which is why Apple with all their software packages stands to make a killing
 
Apple/Intel will merge, licence OS and still make Macs

Software is where the money is, and yet Apple is interested in hardware.

I think that Apple will license its OS; people who don't care about hardware will build their own box and have a low-cost Mac experience.

People who want a divine experience will buy a Mac.

Apple/Intel will take the market.

Peace.
 
I honestly think that if Apple EVER would license MacOS X, it would be to a reputable Japanese Company (such as Sony). They would have to be known to make quality stuff. For years most Japanese PC makers have been wanting to get away from Windows. Would be great to see MacOS VAIOs, although I don't like the current line of them.
 
Goliath said:
However consider this- Love or hate Dell what they have achieved in becoming the largest PC manufacturer is that they have made the product a commodity- IBM got out of the PC manufacturing business for this very fact. Others will follow as the margins become ever more thinner.

Dell will still be there because it was they that commodotised the market and they have the capacity and economies of scale to survive

It is in this respect that it makes sense and inevitable that Apple WILL at some point allow OSX to be licensed to generic manufacturers

Which is why Apple with all their software packages stands to make a killing

I'm sorry but Apple didn't sink hundreds of millions into retail stores so they could sell iPods and software and let Dell cannibalize their hardware sales. If Apple hardware became a generic commodity item, their retail business would be ruined, to say nothing of the challenge of developing software for hardware products slightly out of their control.

Wake up folks, it's never going to happen UNLESS Apple can ensure that Dell hardware would cost the same or more than Apple hardware (which they're not allowed to legally influence) and they make a boatload in licensing fees.

And if Microsoft got pissed and yanked Office, it's bye-bye Apple. It is the one essential killer app that almost every Mac owner can't live without. Businesses would rule out OS X without Office in a heartbeat, effectively destroying corporate sales. If Apple started competing with Microsoft head to head, as a software company, you better believe that MS would take drastic measures such as this.
 
magi.sys said:
I honestly think that if Apple EVER would license MacOS X, it would be to a reputable Japanese Company (such as Sony).
We still have yet to see what the significance of the Ando appearance was at Macworld 2005 :cool:
 
greenstork said:
...
And if Microsoft got pissed and yanked Office, it's bye-bye Apple. It is the one essential killer app that almost every Mac owner can't live without. Businesses would rule out OS X without Office in a heartbeat, effectively destroying corporate sales. If Apple started competing with Microsoft head to head, as a software company, you better believe that MS would take drastic measures such as this.

True, without MS Office CORPORATE buyers wouldn't touch Apple. And they are touching Apple now in exactly what quantities?.....

No. Apple can stand to loose MS Office is they must because they are not after the corporate drone market. That's not the growth path for Apple. It's about the home user, portable and living room media appliances. That's the market I think Apple is chasing to boost its marketshare/profits.

And for those who must work with MS Office documents, well, Apple will have an MS Office compatible suite running, as they almost do now, which will only really come into it's own feature wise when MS Office actually leaves (remember Safari?),

So home users will not care as long as Apple has a suite that works to open word docs and the odd spreadsheet (probably offered free with OS X like iLife!). They are not power office users, so they need no more, and as a last resort the Mactels will probably run windows and whatever flavour of Office you have anyway if they really really need it.
 
mvc said:
So home users will not care as long as Apple has a suite that works to open word docs and the odd spreadsheet (probably offered free with OS X like iLife!).
I tend to think they will care. Even if they don't know how to use Word, Excel or Powerpoint, they will be a tough sell without Microsoft Office. People talk about Steve's Kool-Aid. Microsoft Office has everybody by the balls :eek:
 
Clue me if you will

Can someone give me a clue how roughly 60% of computer sales is to corporations, when almost all existing and recent corporations have already bought machines for every server room, and worker-bee desktop within their campus'?? Also there was a major slowdown; actually no buying from hardly any corporations in the last 2-3 years, when minor cpu/pci/hdd upgrades where only needed. Just like most home buyers until this last 15 months jump in games outside the home console market. :confused: :(

I believe Apple selling the OS to a company can help them - in due time when a major drop happens and maintains a drop or drops faster. Not to Sony though. They can design, implement new ideas, and selling products much faster - in the computer area - than Apple. SONY is still a better worldwide known name when it comes to computers, and consumer electronics than Apple - even with the huge growth of the iPod.

Although I hate even seeing white earbuds, and white iPods - I'm buying the U2 model soon myself, I have to admit that it has helped Apple grow tremendously. I still think Apple should pull out whatever rabbit their saving now, before any drop in the ipod craze starts. Also glad Jobs called it the iPod music community; rings a lot better for those whom still perceive it as a fad - mostly windows pc users.

On Mr. Dell's part. That sounds like a not so smart move to make. We must remember that many people still arent ready for a Mac, they just want a computer to check email and play Doom or UT# whatever. Most dont want to be creative or productive in anyway, nor see the computer as capable an outlet for their creativity. Maybe its due to the fact that most people buy computers brand by what they use with work, their still worker-bees working at home on a PC from their day at work. Dell would have to crunch and research demand before even offering OS X if they could. If it didnt take off, then it would be a failure to both Dell and Apple.

If Apple sold the OS then they might as well be a direct competitor to MS. At that point, they have no control on how their OS would work with other machines. They'd have to spend huge amounts of R&D for standardization and building solid partnerships to put this into effect. Dell thinks, the recent OS X on Intel chips is another step closer to OS X being on any Intel clone machine. Apple still doesnt have the resources for world scale advertising, nor the huge OS X things that corporations need.

Working with RIM BlackBerry Enterprise Server, Web Interface. Good Technologies' GoodLink Enterprise Server/Sync. Competition also now with Microsoft's PushEmail support - rumors of it not being completely secure, what else is new - for Server 2003 SP2. Wireless synchronization of wireless handheld devices. (although I hope that the recent browser work with Nokia is a sign of Series60 support of Symbian OS work to come). Assisting corporations for proprietory porting of database, email, administration security & accessibility to "switch" to the Apple OS! Maybe Apple could get partnership help from Oracle, SAP and others. But THIS, everything I mentioned in this paragraph, is what Apple is currently lacking in order to take MS head-on, on a OS vs OS marketshare fight. This is the basics that corporations are relying on. Open Source projects need to be more robust, and offer as many features as proprietory offerings in order to be considered competitive on a implementation & cost scale. Thats my humble opinion. Most of you Mac-heads are administrators, know a lot more than I do, but I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

cheers.
 
jayscheuerle said:
I think what many people are failing to realize is that switching to an Intel chip is a completely different issue than making OSX available to generic PCs. The only relevancy is possibility.

Hope and dream if you want to, but it's pretty much business as usual at Apple, regardless of the processor inside. Why should they change? They're doing extremely well and have a future that doesn't rely completely on units sold.

These types of dreams will neither die nor happen...


Finally, someone sane.
 
All in good time

jayscheuerle said:
Hope and dream if you want to, but it's pretty much business as usual at Apple, regardless of the processor inside. Why should they change? They're doing extremely well and have a future that doesn't rely completely on units sold.

These types of dreams will neither die nor happen..

Funny thing is... it wasn't so long ago when people were saying the very same thing about the idea of an Intel inside future Macs.

If anything, the lesson lately has been that even the wildest of rumors is likely true.

All I can say is watch and see my friends, watch and see :)
 
mvc said:
So home users will not care as long as Apple has a suite that works to open word docs and the odd spreadsheet (probably offered free with OS X like iLife!). They are not power office users, so they need no more, and as a last resort the Mactels will probably run windows and whatever flavour of Office you have anyway if they really really need it.

I believe that you are in the minority. It would harm Apple's sales to home users if they weren't able to run Office. It's an application that AT LEAST 90% of computer users can't live without. Almost everyone I know wouldn't have bought their Mac without the ability to run Office. While I would tend to agree that it doesn't as much matter to the creative crowd and the family users, it would hinder Apple's ability to "go mainstream" with commodity hardware machines, which is the subject that kick-started this conversation.

Then again, the more that I think about it, if Mactel machines could run Windows natively, and seamlessly within OS X, then perhaps it wouldn't matter -- you could just flip open your Windows window to run Office, and games for that matter. But indeed, I'm off on a hypothetical tangent at this point... :rolleyes:
 
greenstork said:
I'm sorry but Apple didn't sink hundreds of millions into retail stores so they could sell iPods and software and let Dell cannibalize their hardware sales. If Apple hardware became a generic commodity item, their retail business would be ruined, to say nothing of the challenge of developing software for hardware products slightly out of their control.

This is the best argument for not becoming a software company (aside from the "pirating software is trivial - pirating hardware is non-trivial"). Apple is more like Sony than Microsoft. Apple sells an experience and the devices to go with it.

PS: I shudder to think what crap-ware Dell would load on OS X. Looking at what they do to Windows, I even have some sympathy for Microsoft. :p
 
Goliath said:
Dell will still be there because it was they that commodotised the market and they have the capacity and economies of scale to survive

Dell is not the one who did this, Comaq is. They're the one who created the first PC clone and invented the PC as a commodity. Dell is simply the company that came up with the most successful approach to selling into this low-margin business.
 
Michael Dell, Whore.

Whoda thunk it? The same man who once said Apple should close down and give the money back to the shareholders, is now getting in line to kiss Steve Jobs' ass in hopes of getting a seat on the OS X gravy train.

What a difference a few years makes, huh?

I hope Jobs tells him to go to hell.

~Philly
 
Price Increase!!!

sinisterdesign said:
...i can hear the hoofs...

i'm no biz major & i don't pretend to be, but i just don't think it makes sense to flush the hardware business down the toilet in favor for building out the software side, which is what would happen if Jobs licensed OSX. am i wrong? i just don't see how the hardware side could compete if Dell et all started selling OSX on their cheap as dirt PCs.

i know M$ has made a killing (understatement) being a software company, but they didn't have a hardware side to begin with. plus, as great as OSX is, the cool, sleak, gorgeous hardware is half the panache of being a Mac user.

i'm very curious to see where steve is taking us in the next few years. i'll be along for the ride, but i'm just now coming to terms w/ the whole Intel thing...


For all those PC fans that WANT Mac OS to run on PC boxes are you willing to pay 2-3 times the price for the OS?
For Apple to license the OS to PC makers and make any money they would have to increase the price to cover the loss in hardware sales. :(
 
I'm not quite sure about Apple licensing OS X being a good idea because, when Apple licensed the Mac OS in the 90's, the result wasn't increased market share, it was a decrease in Apple hardware sales. If Dell sold OS X computers, the people buying the machine would choose the OS that they are familiar with and in most cases it is not OS X.

Even though this might sound ugly, I think it would be more interesting if you could run Windows on a Mac. Something more like WINE as opposed to dual boot because that would be really lame.
 
OSX + Dell = bad equation. It wouldn't be right. Two different species.

Dell make bad hardware. People can quote specifications all they want, but they simply don't get it. Look at the system as a whole.

What about the specifications of cars.

Aston Martin DB9 vs Mitsubishi Evo FQ400.

The Evo has better handling, and is a lot faster.... but you don't hear people saying that the Evo is better. The fact is it isn't better. The DB9 is a better car when you have enough foresight to see beyond the spec. sheet.

High end Dell laptop vs mid-range Apple laptop: http://www.v12digital.com/Photos/dellapplebig.jpg
 
lar34 said:
Even though this might sound ugly, I think it would be more interesting if you could run Windows on a Mac. Something more like WINE as opposed to dual boot because that would be really lame.

How would MDI applications work with Expose. Also, Windows programs have their menus within the application window... totally inconsistant with the OSX menus at the top of the screen. OSX would have a mess of inconsistent Windows applications running on it... that takes something away from what OSX is.

Best to stick with VirtualPC IMO.
 
nomore said:
OSX + Dell = bad equation. It wouldn't be right. Two different species.

Dell make bad hardware. People can quote specifications all they want, but they simply don't get it. Look at the system as a whole.

What about the specifications of cars.

Aston Martin DB9 vs Mitsubishi Evo FQ400.

The Evo has better handling, and is a lot faster.... but you don't hear people saying that the Evo is better. The fact is it isn't better. The DB9 is a better car when you have enough foresight to see beyond the spec. sheet.

High end Dell laptop vs mid-range Apple laptop: http://www.v12digital.com/Photos/dellapplebig.jpg

That Dell is friggin' ugly as sin. I was flabbergasted when I saw it.
 
Cooknn said:
We still have yet to see what the significance of the Ando appearance was at Macworld 2005 :cool:

Ando was replaced a few weeks after his appearance. (Not tying the two together)
 
nomore said:
OSX + Dell = bad equation. It wouldn't be right. Two different species.

Dell make bad hardware. People can quote specifications all they want, but they simply don't get it. Look at the system as a whole.

What about the specifications of cars.

Aston Martin DB9 vs Mitsubishi Evo FQ400.

The Evo has better handling, and is a lot faster.... but you don't hear people saying that the Evo is better. The fact is it isn't better. The DB9 is a better car when you have enough foresight to see beyond the spec. sheet.

High end Dell laptop vs mid-range Apple laptop: http://www.v12digital.com/Photos/dellapplebig.jpg

I'm hardly a fan of Dell but they seem to get a really bad rap on quality. My company uses Dell's but I can only speak intelligently for the department I head up with 22 employees. We all got new Dell P4 systems with 17" LCDs about 14 months ago. Aside of one bad LCD (which Dell replaced in 2 days) we have had no problems. I run a sales and marketing group and downtime equals lost revenue. Zero down time = no lost revenue. I couldn't be happier.

(By the way, my people are constantly searching the Internet as part of their jobs and we have had very minimal adware/malware problems. I chalk that up to properly training people)

I would have loved to put iMacs on every desk but it just wouldn't be efficient. While the majority of apps we run would be OK, the problems with Exchange, a few Access databases we use and having to tweak all our internally developed apps plus OS training make it prohibitive.
 
rdowns said:
I'm hardly a fan of Dell but they seem to get a really bad rap on quality. My company uses Dell's but I can only speak intelligently for the department I head up with 22 employees. We all got new Dell P4 systems with 17" LCDs about 14 months ago. Aside of one bad LCD (which Dell replaced in 2 days) we have had no problems. I run a sales and marketing group and downtime equals lost revenue. Zero down time = no lost revenue. I couldn't be happier.

(By the way, my people are constantly searching the Internet as part of their jobs and we have had very minimal adware/malware problems. I chalk that up to properly training people)

I would have loved to put iMacs on every desk but it just wouldn't be efficient. While the majority of apps we run would be OK, the problems with Exchange, a few Access databases we use and having to tweak all our internally developed apps plus OS training make it prohibitive.

I think you're missing the point of my post.
 
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