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Dell Says He'd Sell Apple's Mac OS
- Thread starter amac4me
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know what the tragic part of this story is?
it started after the "third transition", the mac community is starting to crumble. before, we defend ourselves against the "dark empire wintel".
now we are joining (sort of) this dark empire. now we start discussing about Dell helping the mac platform or ruining it...
it started after the "third transition", the mac community is starting to crumble. before, we defend ourselves against the "dark empire wintel".
now we are joining (sort of) this dark empire. now we start discussing about Dell helping the mac platform or ruining it...
cube said:They are hot but not crappy.
Which is why Apple really isn't switching to Intel, it's all a big joke lol.
Intels are good processors. They aren't the hottest by any means, and not only ARE they faster than current PPC's, but Intel makes a lot more progress with their processors than IBM could ever come close to.
It seems a lot of the zealots/fanboys/etc don't like Intel because its "the cool thing to do." The claims are always baseless, and hating Intel is based more on fads than any facts.
Josh said:It's going to happen, it's all just a matter of time.
It might not be soon, but there will be a day when you can walz in to Best Buy and buy Mac OS (enter version here), go home, and install it on the PC you already own.
I think it's great, I don't know what all the 'heart break' is about.
Apple is in the business of making money; they're not in the business of being a 'be different, rebel, don't conform' cult.
They will ALWAYS produce top-notch stuff. But their goal is just the same as any company: distrubute that top-notch stuff to as many customers as possible.
I honestly do think there will be a day when Apple will take over the computer industry, and Mac OS will be on the majority of user-computers, in the work-places etc. Mac OS is the future of computers. All in good time
what do you mean "they're not in the business of being a 'be different, rebel, don't conform' cult." they have been, are now, and always will be different and trying to be different than all the others. they are a rebel, just like jobs is. that is what makes mac mac.
Mac-Xpert said:I hate Dell because they use those crappy way to hot running pentiums......oh wait Apple is going to be doing the same thing
I have a Dell Pentium-M notebook that is much cooler than my 12" G4.
If I had to buy another Windows notebook (and I don't see my sig) I'd buy from either Dell or HP. Toshiba used to be good but has gone downhill.
I'm on the fence with the thread issue.
1) Obviously lots o' money and marketshare can be gained by just being an OS only company (see Microsoft).
2) However, the Mac's big advantage over a PC is the tight integration of hardware and software--no picking your nose over a thousand different drivers and legacy code.
Apple is a hardware company, selling just the O/S would put us back where we were in the mid-90's.
However, if Apple was to build the box and the sell the box with the O/S to HP or Dell, and allow them to rebrand it. That may be a possibility.
Can you imagine HP Mac mini's? Not THAT far fetched.
However, if Apple was to build the box and the sell the box with the O/S to HP or Dell, and allow them to rebrand it. That may be a possibility.
Can you imagine HP Mac mini's? Not THAT far fetched.
No... the key word is quality, and letting Mac OS X loose on questionable hardware is not the way to go, that will only hurt Apple, BIG time.Stella said:
If you don't care about quality, get a Dell, by all means, and run whatever low-quality OS (i.e. Windows) if you're clueless or any more secure OS (Linux/BSD) if you're a techie...
It's a whole different world now, though. Apple don't even make computer components any more, at most they do final assembly in markets where that gives them a tax break. They do the design work and farm out the manufacturing.Mac-Xpert said:
The iPods are a good example. In a sense, there are no "real" iPods as in "made by Apple", they're all "clones" built by Inventec and Asustek. HP has a license of sorts, but all they really do is buy the finished hardware from an Apple-approved builder (in fact, the same who build Apple's own), to Apple's specifications. HP does marketing, distribution and support. A Mac "clone" model like that might work for Apple, and really it's not far off from their traditional dealer model (oh, and if those dealers were angsty now, just watch out).
howarddavis said:
Well yes, but they are different in the means of being innovative, creative and making quality stuff (all of which are rare in today's business).
What I'm saying is, Apple is not in the business of creating a cult of 'Intel-Windows-Dell-PC bashing users' They are not trying to do what all the Mac fans on the net think should be done.
Apple wants to a)Create awesome products and b)Make as much money as possible with those products.
Apple does not think a low market share makes them 'cool,' though some users do. They are not trying to make themselves different by being 'the little guy.'<---That's the point I'm going for.
tdewey said:
I agree 100 percent. How can Janie Porche save Christmas 2006 if she has to download a bunch of Mac OS X drivers?
The Register has picked up the story. They don't think this is a good idea (at this point in time), either...
It won't happen because that would kill Microsoft. They need to exist so we can make fun of them.
I've purchased three Dell's for our business, and own one 8300 personally. I have not had any problems with any of the four Dell boxes I've dealt with over the last three years.
I had a Dell LCD go out after a few weeks use, and over their web chat I ordered another one. The new LCD was delivered the next day via UPS. The UPS driver then placed a label on the broken LCD and took it away. Simple procedure, the most I had to do was spend 5 minutes on web chat with a Dell employee and box the LCD up. They didn't even ask for a credit card to "secure" the return.
I also purchased an Apple Cinema Display last year. The display completely died after three days of usage. I called Apple, they refused to return the product, instead wanted me to drive 100 miles to the Memphis Apple Store to have the product serviced. I fought with them for over an hour until finally they gave in. They "snail mailed" me an Airborne Express shipping label (took 3 days to get to my house). I placed the label on the product and shipped it back same day. Ten days later, I received a new Apple Cinema Display, which by the way had three dead pixels. I will never purchase another Apple display again.
In my opinion, Apple could learn a few things about customer service, quality control, and logistics from Dell.
Then again, Dell is no innovator. Dell looks at what everyone else in the industry does and copies it. They have one of the lowest R&D budgets in the entire industry, and they are proud of it. Must be nice to sit back and let Apple and to some extent HP innovate in the computer industry, then rip off their designs for much less $$$.
I had a Dell LCD go out after a few weeks use, and over their web chat I ordered another one. The new LCD was delivered the next day via UPS. The UPS driver then placed a label on the broken LCD and took it away. Simple procedure, the most I had to do was spend 5 minutes on web chat with a Dell employee and box the LCD up. They didn't even ask for a credit card to "secure" the return.
I also purchased an Apple Cinema Display last year. The display completely died after three days of usage. I called Apple, they refused to return the product, instead wanted me to drive 100 miles to the Memphis Apple Store to have the product serviced. I fought with them for over an hour until finally they gave in. They "snail mailed" me an Airborne Express shipping label (took 3 days to get to my house). I placed the label on the product and shipped it back same day. Ten days later, I received a new Apple Cinema Display, which by the way had three dead pixels. I will never purchase another Apple display again.
In my opinion, Apple could learn a few things about customer service, quality control, and logistics from Dell.
Then again, Dell is no innovator. Dell looks at what everyone else in the industry does and copies it. They have one of the lowest R&D budgets in the entire industry, and they are proud of it. Must be nice to sit back and let Apple and to some extent HP innovate in the computer industry, then rip off their designs for much less $$$.
i think there will come a time that apple *does* license out its OS, but it will do so when and only when the parameters of such a deal make too much sense to ignore. I don't think we'll ever be able to pick up a retail version of OSX at Best Buy and put it on our Dell, because that would kill Apple's margin on hardware.
A lot depends on how successful this transition really is, but if Apple allows, and microsoft/developers support Apple's hardware to have dual bootable partitions of Windows/OSX, then their need to license out the OS wouldn't really be there, since the dual-boot capability would be such a strong selling point.
if Apple ever does license out the OS, they will do it with a company that they have an extremley close business relationship with, possibly in a "you scratch my back, i scratch yours" situation. possibly HP, possibly Sony... there is a lot of innovation to be paved in the next few years, and the direction of those innovations, and how closely Apple and these other companies are tied to them, will dictate the licensing policy of OSX in the future.
i just wouldn't look for it for at least 3 years, probably 5.
A lot depends on how successful this transition really is, but if Apple allows, and microsoft/developers support Apple's hardware to have dual bootable partitions of Windows/OSX, then their need to license out the OS wouldn't really be there, since the dual-boot capability would be such a strong selling point.
if Apple ever does license out the OS, they will do it with a company that they have an extremley close business relationship with, possibly in a "you scratch my back, i scratch yours" situation. possibly HP, possibly Sony... there is a lot of innovation to be paved in the next few years, and the direction of those innovations, and how closely Apple and these other companies are tied to them, will dictate the licensing policy of OSX in the future.
i just wouldn't look for it for at least 3 years, probably 5.
i'm somewhat of a recent switcher, i haven't fully switched over bc i have a 12inch powerbook as well as a dell desktop. I'm not a huge fan of windows but i will get by on it. I really enjoy using OS X, but what i think is going to happen is, apple is going to be using the same parts as most pc manufacturer's today....but since it's apple of course they are gonna upcharge to an insane price. I'm kinda in the situation right now, i don't wanna use my powerbook as my main machine bc i don't want it running all day and night. I've been looking to get a mac mini, but i can't justify paying $500 just so i can run OS X. My dell desktop has everything i need even has wireless as well too. I think this is going to be a big problem, bc no one is going to pay $400 extra for the exact same hardware package JUST so they can run OS X instead of windows.
When this whole intel deal goes down i hope apple will readjust all their prices, bc if they don't i think they will have a hard time selling when they have competitors like dell who will have the same exact specs and be several hundred dollars cheaper. So i think people will be very interested in apple @ first but then realize everything is essentially the same hardware wise and the only premium they are paying for is for OS X to run on the computer. How people are today with windows they will be fine settling with it for more years to come. i know ill settle with my dell and won't purchase a mini just for these reasons. they aren't going to have anything to pay premium for except for the OS and OS X isn't that popular otherwise apple would be bigger than they are today. be interesting to see what happens.
When this whole intel deal goes down i hope apple will readjust all their prices, bc if they don't i think they will have a hard time selling when they have competitors like dell who will have the same exact specs and be several hundred dollars cheaper. So i think people will be very interested in apple @ first but then realize everything is essentially the same hardware wise and the only premium they are paying for is for OS X to run on the computer. How people are today with windows they will be fine settling with it for more years to come. i know ill settle with my dell and won't purchase a mini just for these reasons. they aren't going to have anything to pay premium for except for the OS and OS X isn't that popular otherwise apple would be bigger than they are today. be interesting to see what happens.
I'm amazed at how disturbed some posters here are about the notion of OS X running on Dell hardware or it would seem anything else than Apple hardware. I really enjoy computers, PCs and Macs. I work with them, use them for multimedia, internet, games, a lot of stuff. I enjoy tinkering with hardware and new software. The fact that one OS might run on a different set of hardware doesn't really affect me all that much. I may have a preference one way or another, but I cannot imagine this type of speculation making someone physically ill - that's just silly.
I hope this does happen. Apple has great hardware and beautiful designs but from a business/market perspective it only makes sense to offer your other products (software) to the broadest market possible. Since not everyone would want to spend the premium price for Apple hardware (note: I'm not saying it is not worth it, just that it is not for everyone) why should Apple limit the market on their OS/software.
I don't think Apple OEM'ing OS X will happen soon, but I hope it does happen eventually. Everyone says that the large amount of hardware support would make it impossible, but I don't think so. I'm sure that OS X would have to be expanded/tweaked for it, but Apple could do it. The bulk of the work would come from third-party hardware/accessory companies to write the necessary drivers for OS X. However, if Dell was selling machines with OS X, I'm sure more hardware manufacturers would start writing drivers for OS X. Plus, Apple could start out with limited OEM'ing such as allowing Dell to sell OS X on different hardware but requiring certain specifications to be made so that Apple doesn't have to support everything under the sun right away, as this article mentions.
While OEM'ing OS X might allow Apple to pick up a lot more marketshare on the consumer side, I do not see Apple ever making in-roads to the business sector. This is a completely different market and would require Apple to change the entire focus of the company - I do not believe Apple has any intentions to do this, nor would I welcome it as it would distract from the end-user/consumer focus that Apple puts into their hardware and software products.
I thought this was a great article with a fair assessment of the current situation and options available to Apple.
I hope this does happen. Apple has great hardware and beautiful designs but from a business/market perspective it only makes sense to offer your other products (software) to the broadest market possible. Since not everyone would want to spend the premium price for Apple hardware (note: I'm not saying it is not worth it, just that it is not for everyone) why should Apple limit the market on their OS/software.
I don't think Apple OEM'ing OS X will happen soon, but I hope it does happen eventually. Everyone says that the large amount of hardware support would make it impossible, but I don't think so. I'm sure that OS X would have to be expanded/tweaked for it, but Apple could do it. The bulk of the work would come from third-party hardware/accessory companies to write the necessary drivers for OS X. However, if Dell was selling machines with OS X, I'm sure more hardware manufacturers would start writing drivers for OS X. Plus, Apple could start out with limited OEM'ing such as allowing Dell to sell OS X on different hardware but requiring certain specifications to be made so that Apple doesn't have to support everything under the sun right away, as this article mentions.
While OEM'ing OS X might allow Apple to pick up a lot more marketshare on the consumer side, I do not see Apple ever making in-roads to the business sector. This is a completely different market and would require Apple to change the entire focus of the company - I do not believe Apple has any intentions to do this, nor would I welcome it as it would distract from the end-user/consumer focus that Apple puts into their hardware and software products.
I thought this was a great article with a fair assessment of the current situation and options available to Apple.
Yep - something in his keynote also came to mind for me, along the lines of The heart of Apple is it's OS, not the chips on which it runs.SFVCyclone said:
But of course he was probably talking about Apple hardware.
Still though - if Apple can still make $$$ from licensing its OS to Dell, in this day and age, why the hell not? Nothing is stopping Dell from adding a tiny hardware verification in the BIOS or elsewhere that will only allow OS X to be installed on its machines (not Compaqs, HPs, eMachines, or white boxes) that would be similar to the verification Apple would presumably put in its own Intel machines. Drivers shrmivers - if Apple needs them for Dell's (or HP's, or whoever's) hardware, they'll get written. And, Apple will do what it usually does and say, we don't support anything that doesn't come with the machine or isn't sold through us (or in this example, Dell).
There's a little more to it than that, but Steve's always been hard-headed, and the lesson he perhaps learned from getting tossed out of Apple the first time was perhaps to be a little more flexible.amac4me said:
I think you're right. Microsoft is the IBM of Apple's 1984 commercial - it's certainly a better target than what Apple was looking at 20 years ago. Windows is crap - I just spent 6 hours on a friend's XP computer this past weekend weeding out all kinds of viruses, spyware, malware and so forth. Why not go head-to-head? The way I see it, as long as Apple makes the cash and keeps it flowing, fine - then they can make all the iPods they want with their fat R&D department.
I don't buy the arguments that if OS X had greater distribution it would a) put Apple out of business, and b) be as overwhelmed with the types of systemic infections that afflict Windows PCs. Apple's not dumb - if OS X goes to the generic PC market, they'll make damn sure they make money. If OS X gets even 10% of the installed operating system base there will be more developer interest (and let me tell you, I work at a nonprofit that needs fundraising software and all of the decent vendors don't support OS X), and yes, there will be more folks vying to be the first to crack it with malware. But Windows and OS X are leagues apart in terms of what the base OS will let applications get away with - even on Intel chips (please remember it's not the chips that create viral infections, it's the OS). It's simply harder to break, period. Someone will eventually write something that cracks OS X, but it won't nearly be on the scale that current Windows PCs encounter/
Sorry to be a little ranty, but really, the sky's not falling. Apple's re-positioning themselves like all companies do - one great example of this is Hyundai: they make skis, cars, computer hardware and memory. It's about making the $$$, and that's what's going to keep Apple and OS X alive in the next 25 years, not hardware sales alone.
The "damn the world, we make better stuff" Apple we knew went out the window at WWDC when they actually made a solid business decision and announced it in plenty of time for developers and others to get on board. The experience of the end-user may not differ much from the PPC to Intel switch, but I think it represents a major shift in how Apple perceives itself as a company.
Dell's practices are not very admirable, but it's great for business!joshuawaire said:Then again, Dell is no innovator. Dell looks at what everyone else in the industry does and copies it. They have one of the lowest R&D budgets in the entire industry, and they are proud of it. Must be nice to sit back and let Apple and to some extent HP innovate in the computer industry, then rip off their designs for much less $$$.