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Delta Employees 'Fought Hard for the iPad' as Microsoft Announces Surface 2 Deal
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Already noticed this
Having flown 4 times the past month, Delta has already rolled out Windows phones to the flight cabin.
All they use them for is food/drink purchases from the carts.
Seems to be an utterly pointless move. While the old machines were finicky, at least you could get a paper receipt. Now, if you want a receipt, they hand the device to you and you manually enter an email address.
Oh, and they still seem to have problems working. Not to mention they are incredibly slow.
So, to recap:
No improvement in reliability.
Less features.
Slower process (having to give the phone to a customer if they want a receipt emailed).
About the only benefit I've seen is that they are physically smaller than the old units.
So yeah, what was the point of this?
And I look forward to some announcement in the future from Delta stating that credit cards were compromised due to half-assed security measures, like using the gogo inflight wifi for the transactions.
Having flown 4 times the past month, Delta has already rolled out Windows phones to the flight cabin.
All they use them for is food/drink purchases from the carts.
Seems to be an utterly pointless move. While the old machines were finicky, at least you could get a paper receipt. Now, if you want a receipt, they hand the device to you and you manually enter an email address.
Oh, and they still seem to have problems working. Not to mention they are incredibly slow.
So, to recap:
No improvement in reliability.
Less features.
Slower process (having to give the phone to a customer if they want a receipt emailed).
About the only benefit I've seen is that they are physically smaller than the old units.
So yeah, what was the point of this?
And I look forward to some announcement in the future from Delta stating that credit cards were compromised due to half-assed security measures, like using the gogo inflight wifi for the transactions.
Hmmm The same "frustration" you had sounds like what they do at the Apple store. They hand their iPad or iPhone over to you to get your email address. They don't offer paper receipts. Oh wait - I think they do - but you have to wait a long time to get one. So much easier to have it emailed.
I don't know what sort of "frustration" you are talking about. I am talking about actual experience. I know what they old devices were like, and I know what the new devices are like. And there is ZERO benefit.
I don't mind email receipts in general.
However, places that offer this feature, notably the Apple store, ALREADY have my email address on file and simply tap a button. In that case, it is convenient.
And yes, you can get a physical receipt in an Apple store, just pay at the register, which they still have, unless they have stopped taking cash as a form of payment.
In the case of Delta, having actually gone through the process, it is very slow. the device is NOT conducive to thumb typing (due to the awkward shape) and therefore requires finger pecking.
Additionally, there are trips where I want a physical receipt for every dollar spent.
The Apple Store doesn't have your email address on file if it's your first time shopping.
You can print as many physical receipts as you want from Apple's email.
I've gone through both processes (Delta/Apple) - neither one took any more/less time.
Oh - and last I checked - Delta also takes cash. At least they did last month.
ETA: Look - I'm not going to say the Delta process is better or that there's anything wrong with Apple's checkout. My point is really - it's not that big of a deal. And if you (not specific to you, the poster) have any annoyance over it - it's more telling of how you are and deal with flying than it does with the process. In fact - I can only imagine how some people (not you) treat the flight attendants as a result.
Ya... when Apple has to right off 1 billion in unsold iPads then you might have a argument. Untill then... troll somewhere else
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I would have went for the iPad. but to be fair...Most airlines now also are outsourcing parts and repairs from unregulated manufacturers in Mexico since 2009. That is scary to me... But nobody says anything... then come Surface Pro 2 to the cockpit and all of a sudden people are worried lol...
http://www.today.com/id/39383369/ns...-move-unregulated-foreign-shops/#.UkuDnBY-a2w
Why would you not fly an airline over a selection of tablet? And yes, we will use the tablets. I preferred the iPad option, but the Surface has some unique strengths for Delta, most notable is the integration of other software and training. Our airline, for years, has used Microsoft-based currency training and systems training. This partnership allows us to use the tablets for more than the cockpit. We will actually do all of our quarterly training, as well as every 9-month re-qualification training through these systems. Additionally "Initial" Training for when a pilot trains to a new aircraft, will work on the Surface. That course-ware is rather extensive, and has always been Windows based. I've used bootcamp or Parallels forever to run this software. Currently all that courseware is distributed though optical medial every 3 months. Now it will just be a digital download to our tablet every 3 months. The Jeppesen chart database is fully optimized for the Surface, and that is the part we use in the cockpit. So charts for the plane work just as well on a Surface as an iPad.
Yes, I did mean consumer tablets (over convertible laptops) (oops, fixing)
While it is true the tablets are approved on application, the fact it has been approved in many applications sets precedent and gains from the experiance of others. I will also bet many pilots also are familiar with the iPad, after all the RT is still new and a minority.
Your list:
- It fit their Windows based infrastructure better. Are the other airlines having integration issues?
- They could leverage current Windows based training. I think it uses Windows for training, but not training how to use Windows. I assume an RT version will not be difficult
- Pilots could use the snap on keyboard and Office after flights. Advantage, WinRT Still, I have full Exchange access on iOS, how many advantages will it have?
- Pilots could open two windows side-by-side and do things like compare weather to flight plans. At this point you step out of just a PDF display, a realm iOS and Android excels because those platform apps already have multiple features.
There are still fundamental issues:
- Dev support, with only 10,000 units, it will not get much attention from others. I see they will do in-house development, or contract it out?
- App support: The Jeppenson is a port and a soul source,.. not a comfortable place to be.
- Acceptance by pilots, you can lead a horse to water.... (some will drink)
- Accessories, all the attention is on iPad, so it may be hard to get RT items (not a big item, yes)
- Approval by FAA, which can be months, and now that is on hold due to shutdown
- Longevity, MS has a history of canning devices, the first Nokia Winphone 7s cannot update to Win8.
Not saying a WinRT cannot be a good EFB, but right now Delta is betting a lot of money on perceived advantages with a far from established and uncertain platform (and finding their plan is frozen in place by others).
I bet in the end American will have an iPad based system that can do everything the Delta Dream can do and more, for less.
On a different note, what else you hear about new EFB's?
It seems like the flurry of new EFB software has slowed down, and Android versions are getting pretty good.
(on AOPA forums?)
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I know I won't be flying Delta following this news. I just won't take the risks knowing pilots are using blue screen ready devices in the pilot cabin.
Nice, someone with some knowledge!
What is the scheduled for implementation, that is, was (I hear end of year.).
What tasks are expected to be done with the RT?
"Microsoft-based currency training and systems training", that means training using MS software, however you are not actually learning Windows itself, correct?
The two most popular flight app are Foreflight and WingX. Both are IOS only. Jeppesen makes an app called FlightDeck Pro for both IOS and Surface. Since most slight departments are heavily tied to Jeppesen for navigation charts, it makes sense to go with Jeppesen.
To those that don't have a pilot's license with an instrument rating, you need to learn a bit more before making some of the scary statements. In very few cases is it necessary to have nav charts available 100% pf the time. If you don't have the approach in your head before reaching the FAF, you will probably screw up the approach.
To those that don't have a pilot's license with an instrument rating, you need to learn a bit more before making some of the scary statements. In very few cases is it necessary to have nav charts available 100% pf the time. If you don't have the approach in your head before reaching the FAF, you will probably screw up the approach.
That has been happening on and off (mostly on) for decades.
Same bad maintenance then as today, but hey! It's cheap!
Oh my goodness. This is funny.
Pilots will use whatever tools their company gives them or else they can look for a new job.
In my work I have to use Windows XP. At home I have an iMac. What's the big deal?
I don't understand your emotional reaction.
Yeah because there are so many commercial pilots out there waiting to fill the position.
You suggested that the Gimli Glider was a case where the major issue was the loss of electronic instrumentation:
I was merely pointing out that while, yes, the loss of instrumentation clearly didn't help, the fact that they had no engines was a more significant factor in the forced landing... Had they merely lost all their instruments they could (in theory) have continued to fly, whereas a complete loss of power to both engines doesn't leave a 767 in a particularly strong position when it comes to staying airborne. The fact that much of the cockpit was electronic was not why the plane came down. I wasn't really trying to have a go, simply pointing out that if you were trying to demonstrate that the move to electronic instrumentation can leave a plane more vulnerable to an accident, then the Gimli Glider wasn't a particularly good example.
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Slightly digressing here but,Ok, at least they won't be misleaded by Apple Maps
Near to where i live is Hatfield Aerodrome which was never a commercial airport but where planes were designed and made by the de Havilland Aircraft Company(Brief synopsis a lot of history attached to this site) but where it stood there is now a University, housing estate, and Enterprise Park but guess what, Apple Maps thought is was a proper Airport! see image below.
I have checked and its been corrected, Mosquito Way is safe!
Further reading http://www.shockcone.co.uk/hatfield/
Apparently after some of it was demolished it was used to film Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers
Attachments
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Microsoft must have given Delta an amazing rate for the publicity of this deal. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft doesn't make a cent off of it and is hoping this makes the Surface seem desirable. It's probably a deal Microsoft had to do.
No that means aircraft and systems training. The stuff they need to learn to stay current with their job, or they will not be allowed to fly.
Recently learned they will use Jeppenson software recompiled to run on RT, and Delta will make new software, accounting/managing software, so HQ can get more timely updates on flights.
And PDF readers.
Nothing the iPad already does not do, IMHO.
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That I know.
That kind of training is typically an app that hides the OS, so the pilots do not actually learn about the OS.
Well, I wasn't actually trying to 'prove' that. And with APU and ADG there are ample ways to get power to the instruments. A bigger issue is the pilots. I was going to mention the human factor as being a larger potential for incidents and accidents. I was reading the NTSB on the Pinnacle accident and those guys really screwed the pooch...
Flying is safe, all things considered. Although the FAA safety inspectors are reportedly off the job while the politicians engage in their pissing contest.
Then it sounds like pretty soon you won't be flying at all, since every airline is getting tablets, and even iPads crash back to the home screen at times.
That's why these things are not used to fly the plane, and especially why there's two of them up front.
Not my list. Delta's
Jepp was making Windows based software LONG before it ever made iOS software. So I'm not worried about their ability to make a nice RT version. After all, the iOS version was a port itself.
The approval requests, as I noted, are still a year away, so the current government shutdown has no effect.
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Longevity is a minor pet peeve of mine.
In the old days, you'd custom order devices, and thus be assured that the model does not change every year.
Today's management is more concerned about immediate upfront costs, and might not be thinking ahead a few years to when they'll need replacement units (and/or batteries before then). Newer models will require testing again for interference.
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I think it's too bad that neither the iPad nor Surface WiFi models come with GPS. That would've allowed using Jepps' Airport Moving Map software.