Nothing the iPad already does not do, IMHO.
Okay. So there is nothing wrong with them then. And if it worked out cheaper for Delta then even better.
Nothing the iPad already does not do, IMHO.
Okay. So there is nothing wrong with them then. And if it worked out cheaper for Delta then even better.
June 23 American went all iPad, approved by FAA for its entire fleet of Boeing 777, 767, 757, 737, and MD-80.
Point is, if Delta went iPad, they could go 100% paperless (with approval) in days, weeks at most. Instead it will take them at least 13 months to get approval for the RT tablet..
Not my list. Delta's
Jepp was making Windows based software LONG before it ever made iOS software. So I'm not worried about their ability to make a nice RT version. After all, the iOS version was a port itself.
The approval requests, as I noted, are still a year away, so the current government shutdown has no effect.
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Longevity is a minor pet peeve of mine.
In the old days, you'd custom order devices, and thus be assured that the model does not change every year.
Today's management is more concerned about immediate upfront costs, and might not be thinking ahead a few years to when they'll need replacement units (and/or batteries before then). Newer models will require testing again for interference.
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I think it's too bad that neither the iPad nor Surface WiFi models come with GPS. That would've allowed using Jepps' Airport Moving Map software.
you did see the 2 next to surface, right?
Hmmm The same "frustration" you had sounds like what they do at the Apple store. They hand their iPad or iPhone over to you to get your email address. They don't offer paper receipts. Oh wait - I think they do - but you have to wait a long time to get one. So much easier to have it emailed.
Oh - and last I checked - Delta also takes cash. At least they did last month.
lol @ people bringing up BSODs in 2013
What good will a Surface 2 be in the year 2015?
As long as the pilot can do his/her job with a device I am all for it. I can only imagine having to lug around those binders for the planes.
Think of it as exercise
The only thing I have against electronic updates, is that at least when you manually swap out your pages, you might stop when a favorite airport is included, check what the changes are, and be a bit forewarned.
On the good side of electronics, you could instantly find info via an index or search term. On the bad side, you might not be able to quickly find info that you would otherwise find by just flipping pages.
I mean, with a paper manual you can have dog-eared pages that you can visually see. Somehow electronic books have never been as handy to me, even with fancy bookmark and yellow marker options. The devil is in the UI details.
I sent Delta the following:
I just heard that Delta will be going with Microsoft Surface
tablet as the pilot's electronic flight bag to replace all the paper
they carry. Way to go Delta. Going with a crash-prone garbage operating
system. Have you tried using Window 8? Good luck with that. I will no
longer fly Delta because I feel unsafe.
And received this reply:
Thank you for your email to Delta Air Lines.
Deltas electronic flight bag running on Surface 2 continues the
technological strides Delta has been making to give our crews the best
tools to keep them flying safely and efficiently. This intuitive device
puts key information at our pilots fingertips right when they need it.
By eliminating paper, well reduce clutter and minimize time spent
looking for flight information, allowing our pilots the opportunity to
develop greater situational awareness in the air and on the ground.
The second generation Surface tablet leverages Jeppesens
industry-leading FliteDeck Pro application built specifically for the
Windows platform and features interactive software that gives crews
quick access to flight information, charts, weather products and
navigation utilities. Pilots will be able to open two applications
side-by-side using a feature unique to Windows while the FliteDeck Pro
software features high-resolution, color charts and dynamic maps.
Delta plans to expand the role of the tablet in the cockpit and will
look to incorporate additional functionality such as electronic flight
releases, real-time weather forecasts and maintenance and flight logs.
The move will extend the concept of a paperless cockpit well beyond the
removal of flight bags and continues Deltas effort to take advantage of
airspace modernization while driving increased safety and operational
improvements.
We value the relationship you have with Delta Air Lines and would be
delighted to have another chance to restore your trust and confidence in
our service.
No sir, that's incorrect that they could go faster. As I keep repeating, iPads are not blanket approved by the FAA.
I sent Delta the following:
I just heard that Delta will be going with Microsoft Surface
tablet as the pilot's electronic flight bag to replace all the paper
they carry. Way to go Delta. Going with a crash-prone garbage operating
system. Have you tried using Window 8? Good luck with that. I will no
longer fly Delta because I feel unsafe.
And received this reply:.....
Then it sounds like pretty soon you won't be flying at all, since every airline is getting tablets, and even iPads crash back to the home screen at times.
I completely support the notion of iPads in the cockpit. But we as consumers have every reason to be concerned that some airlines are considering cheaping out and using Windows - or worse still Android - tablets.
I completely support the notion of iPads in the cockpit. But we as consumers have every reason to be concerned that some airlines are considering cheaping out and using Windows - or worse still Android - tablets.
Thanks for the insight. What are your typical sources? Press releases? Trade rag?
I read in the United link that Delta also using iPads at same time, so I assume Delta already did some work to approval.
Let me ask, until FAA OK's Delta on RT's, Delta still needs to carry the books?
"(8) Operators transitioning to a paperless or reduced-paper cockpit should carry paper backups of all the information on the EFB during a validation period. The backup information should be readily available to the crew. During this period the operator should validate that the EFB is as available and reliable as the paper-based system being replaced.
(9) For certificate holders, this validation period should include a 6-month operational test evaluation where the EFB system(s) will be available to the crew with all appropriate backup products. The backup products and the EFB are not used simultaneously during the evaluation period, but the backup products are available if needed. A reduction to the 6-month validation period may be considered if the certificate holder has previous experience with EFBs."
"Paper Data Removal. At least two operational EFBs are required to remove paper products that contain aeronautical charts, checklists, or other data required by the operating rules. The design of the EFB function requires that no single failure or common mode error may cause the loss of required aeronautical information."
• Carrying paper products for a given time period to validate EFB reliability by quantitative means;
• Using a printing device to print all applicable data required for the flight; or
• Using an aircraft fax machine to uplink equivalent paper documents to the cockpit
I completely support the notion of iPads in the cockpit. But we as consumers have every reason to be concerned that some airlines are considering cheaping out and using Windows - or worse still Android - tablets.
For what Delta intends, I read their press releases. For everything else, I started studying the FAA regulations about EFBs back when I was first using them around 1999. And of course, pilots also post online about their experience with their airline going paperless.
Probably so. The timetable will also depend on how many different types of aircraft and avionics suites they use. Whoa. At least 17 airliner types in their fleet.
The regulatory groundwork for using consumer devices was begun by Windows and Linux based EFBs, along with tools on Windows CE and even Palm handhelds. Without those pioneers for over a decade beforehand, the iPad would've had a much tougher and longer time being accepted.
V
Delta will still be safe to fly, but I would not invest in their stock.![]()
Verifies what I thought, thanks again.
So while United and American (among others) are now using iPad's as EFB's in cockpit (and other hardware for other in-flight operations), Delta decided to take a long term gamble and delay by another year their own EFB program...
Why - do you really think Wall Street gives a crap about what technology (if any) an airline uses for this purpose? I would think their safety rating and whether or not Delta is profitable/doesn't alienate their customers (further) with wacky fees/charges, etc is of concern to Wall Street. Not whether they use an iPad, Surface or Paper.
Again, no. There is no extra delay because of tablet choice. Get that out of your head.
Of course they will.
While other airlines can ditch paper and save hundreds of thousands a dollars a year, Delta will still have to carry them, so Delta will be spending more $$$ to keep operating.
Its all about familiarity.
By now the FAA examiners are familiar with iPad and all the apps (would not be surprising if they have it themselves).
Familiarity = efficiency.
Approval procedures will be quicker even with the same diligence, human nature. Chances are someone might see the same combination of iPad, app, and aircraft and approve without even looking at it (happens some of the time).
RT is brand new to aviation, examiners are not familiar and no doubt curious, I am sure they will be "examine" it quite thoroughly.
They may also be more critical of a Windows based system becuase of its more publicized failures and of course threats of malware.
Now, had the iPad, Android, and RT all picked for aviation at same time, then yes, it would be almost exactly the same time and diligence.
All conjecture without any basis in fact.