Well, you have to assume that at some level professional pilots are competent and wouldn't do anything that would cause problems down the road.
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Delta Next Airline to Roll Out M1 iPad Pro to Pilots
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know what generates electricity and has big batteries? The planes these pilots are flying
The days of carrying all the plates for a 7,000 mile trip are over. It used to be two giant 7-ring binders full of every approach plate from San Francisco to Istanbul. I am a commercially-rated pilot and have been using iPad-only for years.
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In the early days the iPad was essentially a digital chart reader, but to Jeppesen's credit they hired some programmers/designers that really understood Apple's vision for tablet computing and as such their chart viewer was much, much nicer than what was available for tablet Windows XP machines (remember Motion Computing?) at the time. The iPad quickly became ubiquitous in commercial flight decks - generally first in corporate/charter aviation (think private jets), then later to the airlines. The iPad's success got the attention of other app developers, and eventually a bunch of various aviation related tools became available.
Anyway, it's not just a chart and manual viewer anymore. We have landing performance apps, anti/de-icing checklists and holdover calculation apps. Comprehensive weather and planning apps. I can talk to dispatch or the maintenance folks via VoIP over the aircraft's wifi, and even have the call sent directly to my headset via bluetooth. We have aircraft systems and FMS trainers to keep sharp. And probably a half dozen other things that I can't remember right now.
It's come a long way from just being a glorified pdf viewer!
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"Computerish" as a human computer interface conceived 50 years ago? Such computers are best handled on a desk (including laptops). There are many professionals that are not desk rats. Time to recognise them in the discussions of computing needs of professionals.
Wasn't this how they did it since like 1920 all the way to 2010?
I do not know what IFR is but if the pilot has to refer to a manual to operate the aircraft I will be very worried
In case this is *not* a troll, I'll bite. I was a software developer in my former life, and you better believe that I had my nose in the documentation all the time. Sure there was a core of knowledge that allowed me to work without it, but I always encountered cases that I had either never seen before or it had been so long that I needed to refresh my memory. It's been a couple of decades since those days, but I'd be willing to bet that developers today are still having to dig into the documentation from time to time.
Of course airline flying is more routine than writing code, but there's still a healthy percentage of things I encounter on any given trip that I haven't seen in quite some time, so it's necessary to dig into the books to make sure I'm dotting my i's and crossing my t's. It's an incredibly highly regulated industry - there's a procedure or rule for just about anything, so it's easy to get lost in the weeds when you start making stuff up. For example my company manual is 1,985 pages long, and none of that has anything to do with how I fly the airplane.
Relevant to this thread, one thing that's cool about having it all digital is that hyperlinks make it easy to skip around to the appropriate areas of a large manual. Perhaps I'm looking up the various procedures for transporting a prisoner, and one of the items is that I'm required to see the credentials and paperwork of the law enforcement officers. A hyperlink will take me right to the appropriate section about validating the credentials. Our emergency checklists are the same - some checklists direct you to perform other checklists, and it's nice to just tap a link rather than constantly be flipping around.
I'm not an airline pilot, and I'm pretty sure most here aren't either. And pilots probably don't pay for the iPad, and it's being closely managed by the airline via MDM. Even if there's 2 apps on them, they are still "one trick ponies".
"Handheld computers" have been around for a very long time now. Apple succeeded in making it a more "general purpose" and provides excellent developer tools, unlike most of the competition.
I never said the iPad didn't have its uses, it sure does, but as a general purpose "computer", or more specifically for watching YouTube in the sofa, a computer with a built in "stand" is superior. Trying to type anything of length without bringing a set of extra parts, a computer is far, far superior.
I know there are a lot of people here that stand by their decision to use an iPad as their only larger device, I on the other hand don't know anyone that actually cares that much about an iPad, even if they own one. Most of the time, their kids use it for games. I have friend with PPL and he uses it for Foreflight. I tried to convince my mum to use an iPad, 2 minutes later she picks up the computer. An iPad is awkward to hold and use due to size unless strictly reading/browsing. It is crap to type on, without an extra keyboard. It's awkward without a stand for longer use, and even with stand, it's top heavy and don't lend itself well to lap usage.
Doesn't seem according to the poster above, there are "two" apps on the ipad.
Well sure a keyboard is better than touch, with dictation being better than both of them. So if you're argument is a computer with a keyboard is better in certain circumstances than an ipad without a keyboard...I agree. But an ipad pro with the magic keyboard can be better than a computer with a keyboard.
Well still, you can't convince me the number of ipads being sold by Apple is being given to kids only to play games.
Understand this is your anecdotal experience.
In case this is *not* a troll, I'll bite. I was a software developer in my former life, and you better believe that I had my nose in the documentation all the time. Sure there was a core of knowledge that allowed me to work without it, but I always encountered cases that I had either never seen before or it had been so long that I needed to refresh my memory. It's been a couple of decades since those days, but I'd be willing to bet that developers today are still having to dig into the documentation from time to time.
Of course airline flying is more routine than writing code, but there's still a healthy percentage of things I encounter on any given trip that I haven't seen in quite some time, so it's necessary to dig into the books to make sure I'm dotting my i's and crossing my t's. It's an incredibly highly regulated industry - there's a procedure or rule for just about anything, so it's easy to get lost in the weeds when you start making stuff up. For example my company manual is 1,985 pages long, and none of that has anything to do with how I fly the airplane.
Relevant to this thread, one thing that's cool about having it all digital is that hyperlinks make it easy to skip around to the appropriate areas of a large manual. Perhaps I'm looking up the various procedures for transporting a prisoner, and one of the items is that I'm required to see the credentials and paperwork of the law enforcement officers. A hyperlink will take me right to the appropriate section about validating the credentials. Our emergency checklists are the same - some checklists direct you to perform other checklists, and it's nice to just tap a link rather than constantly be flipping around.
Why would I be trolling?
Would you trust a surgeon that have you in bed with stomach half open and reading from a manual what to do? Neither will I trust a pilot that does the same.
In the case the manuals are to refer to protocols and not operating the vehicle itself it might not bother me, and while its handy to have it on board I see no reason why in the modern day that just can not call airline HQ or any airport to check about a specific thing... kind of like a genius bar.
Dont forget other documents as well, up to date weather and notams. For a simple flight IFR commercial from a to b I carried at least 50 sheets of paper with me, freshly printed just before flight. The return flight about the same amount. Total waste of tons of paper per day. And carry about 20-30kg manuals with you, requiring revisions every few weeks.
Happy to fly with zero paper now and an iPad.
As a software engineer I have a phrase for this: it’s more useful to know where to find info than to try to memorize everythingIn case this is *not* a troll, I'll bite. I was a software developer in my former life, and you better believe that I had my nose in the documentation all the time. Sure there was a core of knowledge that allowed me to work without it, but I always encountered cases that I had either never seen before or it had been so long that I needed to refresh my memory. It's been a couple of decades since those days, but I'd be willing to bet that developers today are still having to dig into the documentation from time to time.
Of course airline flying is more routine than writing code, but there's still a healthy percentage of things I encounter on any given trip that I haven't seen in quite some time, so it's necessary to dig into the books to make sure I'm dotting my i's and crossing my t's. It's an incredibly highly regulated industry - there's a procedure or rule for just about anything, so it's easy to get lost in the weeds when you start making stuff up. For example my company manual is 1,985 pages long, and none of that has anything to do with how I fly the airplane.
Relevant to this thread, one thing that's cool about having it all digital is that hyperlinks make it easy to skip around to the appropriate areas of a large manual. Perhaps I'm looking up the various procedures for transporting a prisoner, and one of the items is that I'm required to see the credentials and paperwork of the law enforcement officers. A hyperlink will take me right to the appropriate section about validating the credentials. Our emergency checklists are the same - some checklists direct you to perform other checklists, and it's nice to just tap a link rather than constantly be flipping around.
I hate to break this to you, but doctors consult documentation and manuals constantly…
Do you actually go through 30kg manuals reading them every few weeks or do you use them to look up something you forgot?
I am not against using iPads, and I for sure would be happy to save on paper, but isn't it better for safety to have iPad AND paper as a backup just in cause something goes wrong with the iPad...unless a pilot can fly just fine without the ipad or the paper manuals.
depends, if he is reading on a new research or a medicine or is he actually learning as he is performing on me. My objection on the pilot reading from manuals is that if he is unable to operate the aircraft without the manuals I would be very very very worried. My opinion is he should be able to lecture on how to operate the aircraft to student pilots without referring to any book or manual.
There are no more paper backups in airliner cockpits. And there will not be. The FAA (For the US anyway) has long ago given the regulatory approval for the complete removal of all paper manuals, approach plates, airway charts, maintenance manuals (Minimum Equipment Lists), company operations manuals, etc, etc and to move all of this information to electronic devices. Approved electronic devices of course, of which the iPad is one.
Not having to carry paper manuals, charts, etc provides a significant fuel savings. Carrying paper backups negates that advantage.
Paper backups on board is a thing of the past.
And yes on board manuals are referred to at different times for different reasons. Why do you think they were required to be on the airplane in the first place? 😂
Do you think docs remember every condition, procedure, and drug interaction? Dude, you have an unrealistic view of medicine, doctors consult documentation constantly while treating you
As a software engineer I’ll tell you I have a whole display on my desk dedicated to docs when I’m working, even on something I know well. Same thing
Wait - you understand that we’re not talking about the jet’s owners manual right?
Buddy, if your software has a bug I will stop using it. If the pilot does not know which gear puts the aircraft in landing mode, me and 200 other human beings will die.
I do not know what you are talking about, I was saying if that pilot does not know how to operate the aircraft without a manual in his hand these are some serious issues to be worried about.
If the manuals are to read law and regulations of airport X , or the emergency number he has to dial I do not mind.
If my software doesn’t work it’s quite a distinct possibility people can die too
And hell, my father used to write the software for helicopters if you want a 1:1 here
Carrying paper isn't better. Yes, an iPad can malfunction, but rarely do they just fail. Because it's possible, though, we mitigate that threat by having two iPads–each pilot has one. And if something crazy happened to both, we'd borrow one from a pilot in the back (there are almost always a few pilots in the cabin). Failing that, I carry a personal iPad that I could use to get approach charts over the internet if needed. We could also land where the weather is good and would not need an instrument approach. There are even more options that I haven't mentioned. But the bottom line is that safety is not meaningfully enhanced by carrying paper.
Wait - DO you think it’s an owners manual? Like “how to adjust the cruise control?” That’s why I asked if you’re trolling - because you’re so adamant about this without actually knowing what the iPads are for. It’s not the instructions for and IKEA airplane.