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I'm really not going to respond to all the responses to my post individually, sorry, but I'll just say that I think many people here seem to think diversity and inclusion are by-words or code for quotas and box-ticking exercises, and I don't think that, and I don't get the impression Apple thinks that.

I do think everyone should be hired based first and foremost on their ability and skills to do the job that is required of them. I don't think many (or possibly any) people here are disagreeing with that idea.

But I also think that constant attention and care should be taken that everyone is given the chance to prove they have those abilities and skills in the first place, and that no biases or prejudices affect those opportunities being given, even on an unconscious, unintentional level. And that applies to both before and after hiring staff. I also think that making everyone feel included, whether from any kind of a minority or not, is just basic common sense if you want a happy, successful and productive company.
 
Both, the issue is that it's really 95% PR/political correctness.

What's scarier is how many people in this thread think that racial quotas are a great thing.
[doublepost=1495580116][/doublepost]So am I to believe that a software engineer candidate comes into an Apple interview, passes all the coding whiteboard session with flying colors and does NOT get hired in favor of someone of a different hue who maybe only answered 50% of the coding session correctly? Is that justice?
 
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What's scarier is how many people in this thread think that racial quotas are a great thing.
[doublepost=1495580116][/doublepost]So am I to believe that a software engineer candidate comes into an Apple interview, passes all the coding whiteboard session with flying colors and does NOT get hired in favor of someone of a different hue who maybe only answered 50% of the coding session correctly? Is that justice?

It's called social justice my friend.
 
It's called social justice my friend.

That's no joke either. Apple takes this **** seriously and they will destroy their own products in the name of 'social justice'. Good for them Facebook, Google & Microsoft are doing the same thing, otherwise they'd be at a competitive disadvantage.
 
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That's no joke either. Apple takes this **** seriously and they will destroy their own products in the name of 'social justice'. Good for them Facebook, Google & Microsoft are doing the same thing, otherwise they'd be at a competitive disadvantage.

All of those companies will be superseded by Asian alternatives in the next decade anyways.
 
The instant and overwhelming reaction to this story is an indicator of the problem that exists, and the reason why a person needs to be in charge of diversity and inclusion.

The stats are presented in the article. Fewer women and minorities find work at Apple (and in tech fields in general). You would think that tech people would be analytical and curious about this, but no. Observing this thread, you see that it's just largely an automatic jump to claims of reverse racism, people saying "I don't see skin color," and assumptions that a VP of diversity and inclusion's job is just to hire unqualified women and black people to meet quotas.

The truth is, women and non-white people are discouraged and thwarted at every turn, long before a stack of resumes land on a hiring manager's desk. Thinking that counting on that manager to hire the most qualified person he sees in the stack of resumes will solve all the problems would be like expecting a QC check, conducted right before an iPhone is boxed up and shipped out, will ensure it's the best designed and best made smart phone out there. Nope.

Even after they do get jobs in these fields, there's work to do to assure that women and minorities get the same opportunities and challenges that white men get, whether that's chances for promotion, assignments to interesting and challenging projects, or even the chance to just to speak up and be heard in staff meetings.

If you work in one of these fields, chances are (literally) that you're a white guy. Ask yourself. Do you interrupt women before they can finish making a point in meetings? Do you suspect every black guy at the office is probably a 'diversity hire,' and therefore doesn't really deserve to be there? If you come across a woman or minority person who's crappy at their job, do you think to yourself that this is just proof that either most women and minorities are inferior at tech work, or proof that 'diversity' programs bring in unqualified workers? Do you think those things while simultaneously looking at a white co-worker who's been checking Twitter for 40 hours a week for the last two years and thinking 'eh, that just Bob... he's a slacker'? Have you recently stalked a female co-worker? Have you stood idly by while a friend stalked a female co-worker? Have you ever tried to avoid assigning or being assigned to work with a female co-worker on a big project because she might get pregnant and go on maternity leave? The list goes on.

I wish Ms. Smith all the best. It's hard to do a job when so many of your co-workers, despite ample available data, insist that it's a job that doesn't need to be done.
I would imagine her job is indeed more complex and needed than everyone is making it out to be on this thread. It's not just a matter of making quotas, but at analyzing why more women and minorities are not applying for jobs at Apple, (assuming the population theoretically could and should provide more female and minority applicants), and working on strategies to make the jobs more accessible to them by amending any barriers that do not impact their qualifications.

I've read in many articles and also know from talking to working moms that engineering careers have extra challenges for women. Women are still often the main caretaker of children and elderly parents in their families and so those crazy hours that we've all heard about that Steve Jobs put on his engineers were going to put off loads of women of childbearing age. My husband employs female engineers. It's a lot of work to restructure work groups and work flow to account for their pregnancies. Fortunately my husband and the men who work for him are pretty progressive and accommodating. They have working wives too, after all. But out in the wider world, how many employers and coworkers only extend themselves the bare minimum as the law requires and otherwise make a pregnant engineer feel she is being resented or frozen out? I've seen and heard some female bosses who were actually more discriminatory against other females and more racist, too. They need someone like Ms. Smith holding them accountable.

So Ms. Smith's job may be to try and implement policies that are more family friendly from the start, which will also benefit men who have child and elder care responsibilities, too. And these policies would have to vary across different countries and cultures in which Apple does business. She's going to have her hands full defining what is and isn't a hospitable, inclusive environment across many cultures. I don't envy her the job at all.

Just think for a moment about how Apple is getting into business in India in a big way. Will the caste system there come into play at all? Is Ms. Smith going to be confronted with built in inequities if it is a factor of doing business there?
 
Good luck to her in her new role. The constant negative reactions to anything mentioning diversity and inclusion from some on these on these forums prove how much further society has to go on these issues - I for one am glad Apple appears to be paying attention to them.

I believe promoting diversity and inclusion is not only the right thing to, it's the smart thing to do. Wanting Apple to pay more attention to its computers (which I would agree with), or whatever else, doesn't mean they should (or have to) ignore social issues, both within the company and in a wider context - indeed, I believe the two things are complementary, not in opposition.

A diverse and inclusive company is one where ideas and creativity can flow more freely, staff will be happier, and everyone can concentrate on making great products. Isn't that what we all want?

The idea behind diversity is to spot talent and hard work in other skin colors and cultures. It very much exists. But the snowflakes -- literally -- have been told we're superior, and that's the kind of treatment some expect. Bravo, Mayor Mitch Landrieu!
 
The idea behind diversity is to spot talent and hard work in other skin colors and cultures. It very much exists. But the snowflakes -- literally -- have been told we're superior, and that's the kind of treatment some expect. Bravo, Mayor Mitch Landrieu!

Another adult in the room.
People seem to think that diversity means inferior and it does not.

Some individuals here also think that minorities can, by themselves, change perceptions that are false and have been perpetuated for more than a generation.

Their disparity for education for minorities in the USA has it's roots in the institutionalized racism that was called Jim Crow, etc., but call it what ever you want it was Apartheid. To think the affected can somehow overcome the effects without help is a simplistic attitude at best. We are less than a generation away from the ending of Apartheid in America and all those that were never affected can say is that helping is somehow discrimination toward them.

It's real simple, if your family has been in America for any length of time you either benefitted from the system or you were affected by it.

Think about this... When I was born and I'm not that old. My parents were not guaranteed the right to vote. When I was a kid they were still setting dogs and hoses on citizens that paid the same taxes but we're denied the same access to services.

Some of you should just get over yourselves.
 
Everybody has biases, and sure we can do things to improve hiring. However, the answer isn't to get rid of meritocracy altogether. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, right?

You don't solve discrimination, by discriminating.
Right, you solve it by doing nothing.

Secondly, who said they are going to discriminate against anyone? That's a pretty baseless assumption.

Thirdly, meritocracy is a binary. Either it exists or it doesn't (hint: it doesn't).
[doublepost=1495583864][/doublepost]
The idea behind diversity is to spot talent and hard work in other skin colors and cultures. It very much exists. But the snowflakes -- literally -- have been told we're superior, and that's the kind of treatment some expect. Bravo, Mayor Mitch Landrieu!
Exactly. All diversity requires is putting in the effort to find qualified individuals of all backgrounds and circumstances.
 
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I'm not sure of every other black, or minorities, experience; but I have had zero issues with the color of my skin holding me back. Hard work and skill has propelled me along my way. I feel this world is getting too soft with inclusion being necessary in everything. Less Kumbaya and more competition.
I wonder if one part of having zero issues is because inclusion is becoming more and more a thing that gets pushed.
 
You lost me at the "so called white privilege."

People that don't believe it exists is part of the problem.

For 100 years we had Apartheid in America.
We had denial of access to education, jobs, housing and services. We didn't get reduced taxes to reflect that. Now people claim that "white privilege" doesn't exist. SMH.
[doublepost=1495586060][/doublepost]
Yawn.
[doublepost=1495585289][/doublepost]Maxine Waters's twin.

You exemplify why there is a problem with that one statement. It adds nothing constructive to the discussion and was made only to be inflammatory.
 
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It's going to affect you, no doubt. And people will throw rocks at you when you complain. Get ready for hearing about how turnabout is fair play because of what your ancestors did, and that you still have privilege no matter what is done to you to "correct" for it.

You can't question it, because the people that invented these ideas have PhDs.

I should have an MEng this time next year and have worked hard for it. To think that's now worth less because of my skin colour, gender and sexuality is honestly disgusting. I've never treated anyone worse or put anyone down based on these traits, so why am I going into a world that's doing this? Weren't we all supposed to be moving towards equality?

It's a horrible thought but if this is what these (in my opinion, racists) are going to do then they are going to feel a massive backlash from ordinary white males (and to a lesser extent white females) in the future. We're still the dominant demographic and if they put us down then they shouldn't be shocked when racism comes smashing back their way.

I want to be clear I do not want something like that to ever happen. But if you are going to be racist towards me for something that I and my parents and grandparents had no part in then I'm not going to bother fighting for equality any longer.

As an ordinary conservative Brit it's kind of not hard to see why Trump had such support. It's because of this ultra insane PC agenda that's just poisonous, there really is a sense that everyone except a standard demographic white male is being looked out for. Not saying I agree with Trump but I get the sentiment. They are pushing people into more extreme politics and away from fairness and equality. I think Dr Martin Luther King would be disgusted by this.

**** these people, a girl at my girlfriends university had an argument with her about some PC SJW cultural appropriation insanity bull**** at a party and I just remember turning around a bit intoxicated and saying something along the lines of:

"That phone you're holding, the transistors that power that and the modern world were first built by William Shockley at Bell Labs, the plane you flew on to come here - Wright Brothers, the antioiotics that make modern medicine possible - Alexander Fleming, the car that you drive around in - Karl Benz, man on the Moon - Werner Von Brown, computers - Alan Turing, the electricity that powers the modern world - Nikola f****** Tesla!... All White Men!"

Why can't we all be fair, get along and base things on merit? Also that girl just looked at me dumbfounded. I could've probably added to that list but at the time that's all my brain could muster.
 
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19% of their employees are Asian, while only less than 6% of the people in the US identify as Asian.

Soooo.... Apple is going to deliberately stop hiring as many Asian people now?
 
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People that don't believe it exists is part of the problem.

For 100 years we had Apartheid in America.
We had denial of access to education, jobs, housing and services. We didn't get reduced taxes to reflect that. Now people claim that "white privilege" doesn't exist. SMH.
[doublepost=1495586060][/doublepost]

You exemplify why there is a problem with that one statement. It adds nothing constructive to the discussion and was made only to be inflammatory.

Where I live in the UK I simply cannot see where 'white privilege exists' In school? Walking down the street? Buying stuff at the super market? Going for a job? Getting the bus? It's an easy thing to throw out there and call those who say it doesn't exist as ignorant or racist but I genuinely believe it does not exist. Maybe where you are it does but not here. Companies are going out there way to recruit people from minority backgrounds at rates higher than they represent in the population, so if you wanted to say there is a minority privilege then yes, there actually might be in 21st century Britain.
Or how about the absolute horrific mass sexual exploitation and rapes in numerous British cities by men of Pakistani origin that the Police were too scared to look into incase of being called racist? It's so bad the BBC just released a drama series on it. That could be seen as 'minority privilege' getting away with heinous crimes.

White privilege is a fantasy. Wealth privilege or class privilege, sure.
 
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You left out the most important part, only a small percentage of women want to be engineers and of those 1/2 are going to be in the bottom half of female graduates. Trying to match that to the population percentages is a fools errand (if you want quality products.) Tim Cook has never operated like he wanted quality products so I guess it is to be expected.

Good point, in my main class of 30 students there's one female. In my girlfriends class English (for Law) it was 75% women. You can't force groups to pick stuff they aren't interested in.
Even in my small family unit, my dad and myself are keen engineers and computer/tech/car guys. My mother and sister are bored senseless by that talk. There's always exceptions to the rule but most women aren't as interested in the same technical fields as men, nothing wrong with that, just reality.
 
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There is nothing "ambiguous" about hearing your coworkers actually say you got your promotion due to AA. The idiots didn't know the person they were talking about was in her office and could hear every word. Excusing idiotic/bigoted behavior as "insecurities" is quite frankly unintelligent of you.

Just so you know. I am black. I have never had the experience of harassment by LEOs. Never been denied employment due to obvious bigotry. But as I mentioned before I have family and friends whom have had those experiences. These are all very educated professionals I am talking about. It is real. Not imagined.

It is n
There is nothing "ambiguous" about hearing your coworkers actually say you got your promotion due to AA. The idiots didn't know the person they were talking about was in her office and could hear every word. Excusing idiotic/bigoted behavior as "insecurities" is quite frankly unintelligent of you.

Just so you know. I am black. I have never had the experience of harassment by LEOs. Never been denied employment due to obvious bigotry. But as I mentioned before I have family and friends whom have had those experiences. These are all very educated professionals I am talking about. It is real. Not imagined.

Thanks for the comment. I was talking about ambiguous situations. And so, if your original comment was referring to unambiguous situations then, to those, my comment does not apply.

Also, I agree that insecurities do not excuse bigoted behavior. What I was talking about was orthogonal. What insecurities can do is make it more likely that we see bigoted behavior where none has occurred.
 
Hire people based off how well they can do the job. Ignore anything that has to do with them in anyother way. Anything else is prejudice regardless if you're hiring black, white, hispanic, male, female and so on. You're still going out of your way to hire a person based off what they are and look like. If you are truly free of prejudice it wouldn't make a difference in any way with exception to the persons skill.

I agree totally. Treat everyone the same and don't seperate people based on anything else.
 
Try this thought exercise:

You're in Silicon Valley to pitch a new widget to some tech companies. You've booked three meetings today. You walk into your first meeting. There are twenty white men around the table, waiting to hear your pitch. What do you think about that?

Second meeting. There are twenty people again, but this time, five are white men, five are Asian men and ten are black women. What do you think about that?

Third meeting. This one's a smaller group of eight, and they're all black women. What do you think about that?

I'll offer the most likely answers to the three questions. 1: Nothing. You don't think anything about it, and just make your pitch. 2: "Uh. That's odd. There must be some kind of quota thing here." You hesitate for a moment while you process it and then make your pitch. 3: "WTF?" You wonder if you should bother making your pitch.

Now, here's the thing. Silicon Valley's a big place, and even with the current overall demographics, all three of those scenarios are statistically possible. If you're a tech person who understands probabilities and you also really "don't see race or gender," you wouldn't think anything about any of those scenarios. You'd just make your pitch, because you've got widgets to move.

Now, before you get on here and claim you'd be the one who just makes the pitch to all three meetings, don't lie to yourself. And if you know you're lying to yourself, don't get on here and lie to everybody else.

No, you're right. I would hesitate and think for a moment, assuming say I wasn't marketing this to a particular group like mums or something. I would think, hmm, is this panel made up of some diversity hires? But then again, my engineering class of about 30 people has one girl in it, there's no gender or race bias at play when applying for uni. It's done based on the qualifications you get at school. So if my class is 29 white males and 1 white female I wouldn't be all that surprised if the engineering fields I pursue later on sort of reflect that to an extent.

My sister is a nurse and in her large class of students when she was at university there was a tiny number of males. This is because I presume that most guys don't want to become nurses - I know I have no interest in that and neither do any guys I know. So why is there any need to bring in diversity quotas or whatever for 'underrepresented' white male nurses? There isn't.

This is why I believe it's racist bull****, if the majority of people who are interested in a certain area go into university and study in these particular areas and are made up of a certain demographic then why should they be punished?

Then if you get into it you quickly devolve down to semantics of what percent of whom should do what. I'd rather not go 'oh my country is 90% asian, 5% white and 5% black, thus we need 45% asian men, 45% asian women, 2.5% white men, 2.5% white woman, 2.5% black men, and 2.5% black women' It's stupid, disgusting, in bad taste and not in the real world.

That's why I believe the best way is based purely on merit. CV's should be devoid of names and pictures, keep it as fair as possible and so what if the majority of engineers at Apple are white men? Seriously? Who cares? America is mostly white and most engineers are male? Apple should be more than capable to go after and hire only the best, hiring a VP of diversity is not smart and something I think just leads us down a road of more racism and inequality.
[doublepost=1495589694][/doublepost]
Life in not fair and never will be. You can not control a single persons thoughts or know what's going on in their head. You will NEVER succeed in creating a fair world...never. Look at nature, that will teach you that life is not fair very quickly. A Chinese female that isn't a good programmer after 4 years of college should not be hired at Apple because she is a Chinese female. Race should have NOTHING to do with hiring. Qualifications, references, attitude, and work history should be the ONLY factors. By appointing people to oversee diversity....you're just forcing unqualified people in the door. That is the mission....to purposely fill spots with non-white males regardless of the qualifications. That is the ONLY thing this type of thinking does. If Apple isn't diverse than either there are not enough diverse people interested, there are not enough diverse people with skill, or Apple's hiring managers are racists. That is it. It can only be those three and I doubt they are racists based on my experiences working for them. Maybe in the UK you still have race problems...but the USA is not an inherently racist country, especially in the tech areas. I've worked with some pretty diverse people in my time and I've never seen a need for "diversity" managers.

Also, why is it always the people in the U.K. trying to tell us (in the USA) how to feel and what to do? You act like you understand America.....you didn't understand it in the 1600's and you clearly still don't.

I can assure you the UK is not a racist country atleast from my 25 years of living here. I feel like people are so terrified of being racist they'll go to great lengths to avoid the idea of it.

I completely agree with what you said.
 
This is hillarious, a symptom of everything wrong with "diversity". She clearly was given the role to boost their diversity portfolio and because of affirmative action. What irony.
Why would you assume that? It couldn't possibly be that she's highly qualified for this job, could it? Noo, it must be her race/gender.

Attitudes like yours help illustrate why there's still a need to push for greater diversity, equity and inclusion in the workforce. So thanks for proving the need! :)
 
Omg. I am so happy and proud of Denise! She is such a great person to be around.

First VP to report directly to Tim. So, he clearly wants to be hands-on with this since Apple gets so much crap about their diversity.

Good luck, Denise! I'm sure she will do well!
LOL! She doesn't read messages in this forum. She is probably too busy checking if the new emoji collection that will be featured on a 2-hour long keynote at the upcoming WWDC meets Apples' diversity standards. But hey, keep trying!
 
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LOL! She doesn't read messages in this forum. She is probably too busy checking if the new emoji collection that will be featured on a 2-hour long keynote at the upcoming WWDC meets Apples' diversity standards. But hey, keep trying!

This is sad. But, hey, what do you expect from ...
 
It feels odd to me that people placed in charge of diversity always seem to have to be blatant tokens of diversity themselves.
So it would seem less odd to you if it were an old white dude like most of the VPs at Apple already are?
[doublepost=1495596338][/doublepost]
Companies should be hiring people based on their talent, level of experience and ability.

This nonsense diverse crap is pure racism. I understand that employers have been racist and preferred certain ethnicities in the past. That is terrible. But to line up candidate resumes on a desk and to pick the ones based on which box they checked for skin color is itself racism.

It says that because I'm white, that I don't fulfill a requirement for the job. It says that because they already have too many white people working for the company, that I do not have an element they are requiring. Something I have absolutely no power to change. How is that any different than telling someone they cannot qualify for a job because they are black?
Diversity and inclusion isn't about saying no to white people. It's about ensuring minorities don't hear no in situations where they are the most qualified.

Do you see the difference? Can we stop with the irrational fear now and try just a little to understand what's actually happening?
[doublepost=1495596489][/doublepost]
Good luck to her in her new role. The constant negative reactions to anything mentioning diversity and inclusion from some on these on these forums prove how much further society has to go on these issues - I for one am glad Apple appears to be paying attention to them.

I believe promoting diversity and inclusion is not only the right thing to, it's the smart thing to do. Wanting Apple to pay more attention to its computers (which I would agree with), or whatever else, doesn't mean they should (or have to) ignore social issues, both within the company and in a wider context - indeed, I believe the two things are complementary, not in opposition.

A diverse and inclusive company is one where ideas and creativity can flow more freely, staff will be happier, and everyone can concentrate on making great products. Isn't that what we all want?
Thank you for being one of the few people here not succumbing to irrational fear and for speaking up for what is right and true.
 
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