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Department of Homeland Security Has 'No Reason to Doubt' Apple's Denial of Supply Chain Compromise

mozumder said:
Only if you're a narcissist and think you know more than all professional media.
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It's amusing that you give the "professional media" so much credit. The media process lends itself to manipulation, and the more restricted the content the easier it is to manipulate the reporter in question.

In the end, the media's problem is they need someone to talk. That someone always has some sort of motivation. The media process requires triangulation, but if everyone the reporter talks to is saying the same thing, the reporter essentially has confirmed the information in question. The built-in assumption when confirming information is that "everyone" isn't going to say the same thing because they all don't have a reason to lie to the reporter.

But occasionally they do have a reason to lie in unison. Sorry Charlie, you just got burned by your sources. Welcome to spookland.
 
Regardless of the truth,if any government/departments want to cover it up, this is what they'd exactly do.

a gag order says you can't tell your own users you have a gag order/let along what it says., so just because thesse companies deny, doesn't mean anything either. ts like ya typical NDA.

However the only reason this is overblown as big as it is, because they know they can get away with it, since most of everything is manufactured/built in China anyway.

Martyimac said:
And how do you know they didn't? Just asking.
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Well, they WERE one of the first ASAP. If they took time, then you'd know its a extensive investigation.. In fact, i don't even think any companies took their time.. they all rushed in, which tells me, either they all knew they wouldn't do such things (in-advance) (I dunno how the hell they'd known that before it happens), but anyway, or they were actually telling the truth..

Anybody's call. This story could go on for a while :D
 
mozumder said:
Only if you're a narcissist and think you know more than all professional media.
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Almost all*, correction for you. I can go down the list, and prove that most media has published a few fake stories in the last year. Bloomberg, CNN, FoxNews, CNBC, NYT, The Washington Post, Newsweek. All have made bold claims that later were proven to be false.

So the correct answer my friend, is to weigh all sources of material and think for yourself. Don’t use a single source.
 
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At first I thought that there might be something in it.

Now I think that Bloomberg have some explaining to do...
 
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usarioclave said:
It's amusing that you give the "professional media" so much credit. The media process lends itself to manipulation, and the more restricted the content the easier it is to manipulate the reporter in question.

In the end, the media's problem is they need someone to talk. That someone always has some sort of motivation. The media process requires triangulation, but if everyone the reporter talks to is saying the same thing, the reporter essentially has confirmed the information in question. The built-in assumption when confirming information is that "everyone" isn't going to say the same thing because they all don't have a reason to lie to the reporter.

But occasionally they do have a reason to lie in unison. Sorry Charlie, you just got burned by your sources. Welcome to spookland.
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Part of the problem in this case is the reporter didn't think to ask someone in the chip manufacturing business if such a chip could be made and whats its size would be and how it need to be connected.

Then he would have had the information to put his story in question or dig deeper!

Then he would have learned the idea of a 'grain of Rice' is just fiction! But, a remanufactured chip that is used in the system could have the added circuitry or programing.

That would have driven him to look still deeper on how one would validate if the equipment was tampered with.

Again, I think he would have found the cross-checks are quite deep! There are older stories on some of the efforts Apple as well as other companies use to make sure. Some methods are still held as secret as you don't want to tell the spies how the hardware is tested, just like how we know our money is not a forgery!

The OS's these servers use are also very different to what our desktops & laptops use. So the whole idea they need to run it is pointless! Its also highly customized to what they want which is not the same across all of the companies.
 
With such intense denial from US and UK governments you start to wonder if there are real sniffing chips, but they are planted by the NSA and MI6, and disguised as Chinese chips, and got caught...
 
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ctg7w6 said:
If the USA denies it then either they believe it or not. If the USA confirms it then they know for sure they’ve been caught. The rational thing to do is deny.

Plus, if the USA confirms it, there will be public outrage (possibly). Then the politicians have to worry about placating their constituencies. This would make foreign policy more difficult.

I’m not saying it’s right, there are positives and negatives either way, but the smart thing to do is deny—unless the US government WANTS to arouse anger at these entities (and China).

This isn’t politics buddy.
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This isn't just some generic "we regret the misinformed allegations" denial. It's broad, sustained, extremely detailed, points out verifiable other mistakes in the Bloomberg story, and corroborated by unaffiliated agencies. Why can't Bloomberg have simply gotten the story wrong? I'll tell you why: because 1) indulging in conspiracy theories is so much more fun, and 2) it doesn't burden people with the need to prove a thing, so why not? And don't ask anyone to disprove these fun conspiracy theories, because that's a nonstandard. Disproving as a test doesn't work in court, nor in science, nor with anyone who wishes to verify anything. I'd reply by asking you to disprove that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. Disappointingly, the truth is usually much more pedestrian.
 
I'm actually slightly torn on this one. I don't doubt for a second that a breach has occurred even on such a deep level as was reported. I also don't doubt that the way it was reported was biased enough on Bloomberg's part to be sure to include all the "big names" in tech right now, including Apple and Amazon, despite the severity.

The real question at play here though is how quickly and how confidently and aggressively every single denotation has come out against the article. It's almost as clear a weather balloon. I think there is something more.
[doublepost=1538928408][/doublepost]Either way, if anything stated in the report is true, you guys are certainly not going to hear about it anytime soon; the scale is too large to release to the public. In the eyes of the government, truth is powerful; and that's not easy to control once released.

National security or something *grumble grumble* :D
 
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But okay I can see the logic of armchair security experts now. After reports of these sorts came out:
Case 1. None of the involved parties came out to debunk -> Clearly the report is telling the truth and these parties, realizing their secrets have been exposed, are now in deep trouble.
Case 2. Some involved parties issued soft denial -> These parties are clearly controlled by government gag orders. They are lying to cover their a$$ up.
Case 3. All the involved parties as well as government bodies published strong denial -> These denials are so confident, aggressive, and coordinated. They are clearly in some sort of conspiracy at the same time.
 
Whether the story is true or not, it's time for U.S. technology companies to bring back manufacturing here instead of overseas. There are enough people here that could fill the positions, no worries (maybe a lot less) about spying from China and Apple fanboys who pre-order will not have to worry about delayed shipments.
 
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tzm41 said:
With such intense denial from US and UK governments you start to wonder if there are real sniffing chips, but they are planted by the NSA and MI6, and disguised as Chinese chips, and got caught...
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No you don’t.

The fact that entities are making denials without leaving themselves wiggle room is evidence they are telling the truth.

If they were denying but not “intensely” they would be evidence they are prevaricating.
 
Tech198 said:
Regardless of the truth,if any government/departments want to cover it up, this is what they'd exactly do.

a gag order says you can't tell your own users you have a gag order/let along what it says., so just because thesse companies deny, doesn't mean anything either. ts like ya typical NDA.

However the only reason this is overblown as big as it is, because they know they can get away with it, since most of everything is manufactured/built in China anyway.



Well, they WERE one of the first ASAP. If they took time, then you'd know its a extensive investigation.. In fact, i don't even think any companies took their time.. they all rushed in, which tells me, either they all knew they wouldn't do such things (in-advance) (I dunno how the hell they'd known that before it happens), but anyway, or they were actually telling the truth..

Anybody's call. This story could go on for a while :D
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You are assuming the publication of this report is the first time Apple has heard of the problem. Bloomberg itself says they did their due diligence and contacted Apple as they researched the reports. Apple wasn’t blindsided by this news. I believe they said they investigated the mater when it was first brought to their attention.
 
upandown said:
I find that very interesting and at this point I think is key. Why are they so quick to put out definitive statements of denial. Very atypical.
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Because these are false accusations and leaving them out there could be devastating to their businesses. Silence or weak would be taken as evidence they are being gagged by the government.

Denials are not evidence of lying. That’s a crazy thought process. I can’t strongly deny anything else it shows that the thing I am denying is true?
 
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I love the childlike naivete of those that believe that this kind of stuff hasn't been *rampant* for years now, and that everything hasn't long since been compromised.

Is this specific SuperMicro rumor true? I dunno. Does it even matter at this point? Absolutely not.
 
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Plutonius said:
"No reason to doubt" doesn't mean it didn't happen.
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No. The complete lack of evidence - no photographs, schematics, technical breakdowns or analyses of the supposed chip, the complete lack of any on the record witness, and the technical impossibility is what means it didn’t happen.
 
Perhaps I've missed something, but the UK statement, and now DHS's statement, makes no sense to me. Why are either of those entities coming out publicly, on their own, to say they consider the statements by Apple, Amazon, etc. to be creditable? Who asked them? And further, who cares? The question isn't what they think of Apple's statement; the question is: what do they know, themselves, about the sabotage? Bloomberg's story indicated that gov't agencies knew about all this. In fact, gov't sources are primary providers of information for the story, supposedly. Personally, I can't fathom how the Bloomberg editors would print a story this explosive without a single source that's willing to identify themselves.

On a different note, I have a subscription to Bloomberg, and one thing has really stuck out about their publishing platform: there is no mechanism to comment on a story, any story.
 
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