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Depleted uranium weapons in Iraq
- Thread starter charboneau
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I never claimed to be.
Do you have anything constructive to add to this argument, or did you just want to flame?
Do you have anything constructive to add to this argument, or did you just want to flame?
Yes, it's a Scottish site. Are you implying that the big TV networks are more credible? Credible at all?
Hahhahahahhahahahahhahahhahhahahahah.
Haha hahahaha hahahhahahha hahhhaha.
Lead is poisonous. The more you come into contact with it, the higher the likelihood that it will affect you. Chances are, it has already done mild, probably unnoticeable damage to your nervous system. If you had put lead sinkers onto your fishing line every day as a kid, you would be dead by now.
Well, Saddam = evil. Also an Axis of Evil member (worth bonus evil points). USA = not evil. So you see, it's very simple. Saddam does bad things, USA may do bad things too (allegedly!), but since USA = not evil, Saddam > USA in the evil department. This is important because if USA < Saddam, USA = 0 in evil.
Prove it.
As for the DU rounds, from the fast research I just performed (do a google search
), the DU part of tank ammo are in fact the working part of the SABOT rounds. The DU part is a shaft that penetrates the armor thus defeating the tank.Read for yourself at the following links...
http://www.theavonlady.org/theofpfaq/Armor/heatsabot.htm
and
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m829a1.htm
As for A10 ammunition, I believe that those rounds essentially self-consume when they connect with something (like a tank or the ground). As such, it would take a major effort to gather up what remains of the DU. As was pointed out before, it's DEPLETED uranium. As such, it's no longer any more radioactive then the rest of the world (no more deadly then environmental background radiation). The DU part is simply a denser material, which makes it ideal for defeating tank armor.
A
I don't think it's accurate. The former Soviet Union (hopefully [?] Russia now) has many more tactical nukes than the US, and probably more chemical and bioweapons as well.
The US, though, has used more chemical and nuclear agents in warfare than any other nation.
Re: I don't know what to say...
you have no idea what you are talking about. if you were hit with one of the a-10's 16" bullets, you would be in so many pieces you would not be recognizable, or it would pierce you straight through and hit something behind you.
the bullet is designed to pierce armor, not kill one person.
you have no idea what you are talking about. if you were hit with one of the a-10's 16" bullets, you would be in so many pieces you would not be recognizable, or it would pierce you straight through and hit something behind you.
the bullet is designed to pierce armor, not kill one person.
Those that say depleted uranium isn't dangerous have no idea what they are talking about.
Read this:
http://www.gavagai.pl/nato/depleted.htm
(or do a search on google for 'depleted uranium dangerous')
The problem is not only short-term (ie more dangerous to the soldiers it hits--who care, right?) but the bullets and munitions break up causing our soldiers to be exposed to dangerous particles which also get into ground water, the sand, air, dust in homes, etc. which puts the native population at risk. This causes a number of problems including increased risk of cancer and birth defects.
From the article...
Once again, our government does give a flying **** about the native population. Go figure.
Taft
Read this:
http://www.gavagai.pl/nato/depleted.htm
(or do a search on google for 'depleted uranium dangerous')
The problem is not only short-term (ie more dangerous to the soldiers it hits--who care, right?) but the bullets and munitions break up causing our soldiers to be exposed to dangerous particles which also get into ground water, the sand, air, dust in homes, etc. which puts the native population at risk. This causes a number of problems including increased risk of cancer and birth defects.
From the article...
Once again, our government does give a flying **** about the native population. Go figure.
Taft
Originally posted by AlphaTech
As for the DU rounds, from the fast research I just performed (do a google search
Read for yourself at the following links...
http://www.theavonlady.org/theofpfaq/Armor/heatsabot.htm
and
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m829a1.htm
As for A10 ammunition, I believe that those rounds essentially self-consume when they connect with something (like a tank or the ground). As such, it would take a major effort to gather up what remains of the DU. As was pointed out before, it's DEPLETED uranium. As such, it's no longer any more radioactive then the rest of the world (no more deadly then environmental background radiation). The DU part is simply a denser material, which makes it ideal for defeating tank armor.
A
Yes, uranium tipped shells are very useful in penetrating armour. It only seems logical that the shells would self-comsume upon impact with something hard. But what if they missed and hit sand or a person or something? There are probably quite a few that didn't self-consume after being fired. The fact is that we don't know. If you started roaming old Gulf War battlefields with a GM counter or something, I'm certain you would eventually find a uranium tipped shell intact. Maybe you would find many.
As for your comments about DU being no more radioactive than the rest of the world, you are dead wrong there. What do you think is done with all of the DU from nuclear reactors all over the world? Some is recycled, some is made into bullet tips, but the vast majority of DU in the world is simply put into storage. However, this is no ordinary storage. It's storage to protect the environment from the harmful effects of the radiation being emitted from the DU. Please don't make me explain it out all over again. Just because uranium is labeled as depleted doesn't mean that it isn't radioactive.
Re: Re: I don't know what to say...
You're right. I posted that before I realized exactly which type of bullets/shells the DU was being used in. I don't claim to be an expert on military munitions, especially munitions that I didn't even know existed before today. But that still doesn't change anything.
I can see why they chose to use uranium for this (e.g. very dense metal, convienient method for disposal of nuclear wastes, etc.), although it would have been nice if they had picked an element with less or no radioisotopes with similar density. I would whip out my rubber bible and look for a better element, but it's getting late and I have school tomorrow.
Peace out.
You're right. I posted that before I realized exactly which type of bullets/shells the DU was being used in. I don't claim to be an expert on military munitions, especially munitions that I didn't even know existed before today. But that still doesn't change anything.
I can see why they chose to use uranium for this (e.g. very dense metal, convienient method for disposal of nuclear wastes, etc.), although it would have been nice if they had picked an element with less or no radioisotopes with similar density. I would whip out my rubber bible and look for a better element, but it's getting late and I have school tomorrow.
Peace out.
Maybe they should use ultra-depleted uranium? The US is the only nation to use nuclear weapons in war. But most people feel that in the long run, it might have saved lives. Hard to say.
One would wonder if all the pacifists here who like to complain about everything feel that the "containment", "embargo", and "isolation" of Iraq best serves the people of Iraq. I think these same steps proved only failure in Germany in the 1930's.
Saddam doesn't seem to be so worried about civilian casualties or developing bio and chemical weapons.
One would wonder if all the pacifists here who like to complain about everything feel that the "containment", "embargo", and "isolation" of Iraq best serves the people of Iraq. I think these same steps proved only failure in Germany in the 1930's.
Saddam doesn't seem to be so worried about civilian casualties or developing bio and chemical weapons.
A few facts about depleted uranium: Most people see "uranium" and jump to conclusions about what it is. But, shells made of it are actually only slightly radioactive, as the radioactive isotopes have been removed. Hence, the name "depleted." For example, marble, the stone used widely in bulldings, homes, soapdishes and other household items is actually more radioactive than depleted unranium. DU has a lengthy half life, hence the low radioactivity. The reason it is used because it is very heavy and it is "self-sharpening" meaning that it doesn't flatten out like lead when it hits a target. As such, it is very good for armor-penetrating shells, ammo and artillary. The main threat of depleted urnanium -- aside from being an Iraqi tank operator on the receiving end of a depleted uranium shell -- is that depleted-uranium dust is quite poisonous. The concern is that inhaling particles floating around on the battlefield is potentially deadly, and that is could linger for years afterward. However, many things on the battlefield are quite deadly, and remain so for some time. Missile exhaust can be far more poisonous. Of course, none of this addresses its moral implications. Iraq is currently shooting at it own people, so I'm not sure their safety is of paramount importance. Of course, the U.S. should and does operate at a higher standard. It's just the DU is very low on the list of current or long term dangers to Iraqis.
No? Oh, sorry for putting you on the spot like that -- there are none. What you said was flat wrong.
Isotope/
Half Life
U-230
20.8 days
U-231
4.2 days
U-232
70.0 years
U-233
159000.0 years
U-234
247000.0 years
U-235
7.0004E8 years
U-236
2.34E7 years
U-237
6.75 days
U-238
4.47E9 years
U-239
23.5 minutes
U-240
14.1 hours
Isotope/
Half Life
U-230
20.8 days
U-231
4.2 days
U-232
70.0 years
U-233
159000.0 years
U-234
247000.0 years
U-235
7.0004E8 years
U-236
2.34E7 years
U-237
6.75 days
U-238
4.47E9 years
U-239
23.5 minutes
U-240
14.1 hours
Oh come on, who gives a ****! We use DU weapons to penetrate armour of enemy tanks. So what. That is not a WMD. That is the most bull**** statement that I have ever heard.
As for Japan and nukes. Look, we had a choice. Loose over 300,000 Americans, and some say over 2 millions Japanese, or use the bomb in an attempt to stop the war.
Saddam for you info has used more chemical weapons than any other country. Go talk to some Iranians, and you will see the truth.
I have a friend that was a commander in the Iranian army. He can tell you some nice stories about Saddam.
As for Japan and nukes. Look, we had a choice. Loose over 300,000 Americans, and some say over 2 millions Japanese, or use the bomb in an attempt to stop the war.
Saddam for you info has used more chemical weapons than any other country. Go talk to some Iranians, and you will see the truth.
I have a friend that was a commander in the Iranian army. He can tell you some nice stories about Saddam.
The CANDU is designed to use natural uranium containing typically 0.7% U-235. The CANDU can also handle spent PWR fuel quite well which generally contains 0.9 - 1.2% U-235 (which is far higher than the 0.2% U-235 normally found in depleted uranium munitions. Apparently, it is theoretically possible to operate the CANDU at U-235 levels as low as 0.2%, but it would most likely not start at that level.
Well, for those of you against DU rounds, I'd like to see you penetrate the armor shell of a T-80 MBT with anything but.
Taft: The rounds used have no bearing on our attitude towards the population We are not targeting the civilian populace with these rounds, only valid military targets. If we did not want any harm whatsoever to befall the populace, we would go and fight with nothing more than a few cotton balls and toothbrushes.
Taft: The rounds used have no bearing on our attitude towards the population We are not targeting the civilian populace with these rounds, only valid military targets. If we did not want any harm whatsoever to befall the populace, we would go and fight with nothing more than a few cotton balls and toothbrushes.