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Despite M1 Pro and M1 Max Performance and Efficiency Gains, Intel Still Hopes Apple Will Do Business With It

I guess they still have a chance of providing chips for the Mac Pro... I mean not really but if they actually manage to put some effort into developing their chips rather than hiring Justin Long to appear in some more questionable adverts. If they knew where to find Scott Forstall they'd probably be trying to get him to appear in an ad too.
 
As other have noted, this is not about Intel having Apple switch back to x86-64 processors, it's about Samsung and Intel wanting to manufacture Apple's own M-series chips on their own foundries. While Intel hasn't caught up to TSMC or Samsung in terms of bleeding edge process, nanometer per nanometer Intel's processes tend to produce transistor density (the true measurement of a process refinement) comparable to TSMC's next generation; Intel's 10nm chips have the equivalent density of TSMC's 7nm chips, etc.

Intel has catching up to do, but I don't get the hate Apple fans were spewing towards Intel even before they started the anti-Mac ads. Mac users should want Apple to diversify their supply chain to make sure Apple's products are readily available.
 
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mac_hack_attack said:
Totally agree!! This would be like designing your own new greatest wiz-bang 5G radio chipset and then deciding to have Huawei manufacture it for you. (I know, I know, Huawei does not do chip fabs - just an analogy)

Intel spent their last 10 years on top b/c of their manufacturing lead. Their chip design creds were not horrible but were mostly "we own x86, suck it!". Intel would rip off the M1 design in a heartbeat. That said, it would not be as simple as copying the M1. Apple's ultra wide execution front end mostly cannot be replicated over to x86 arch. Intel would have to make the choice to shift into ARM.
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This is not how the business world works. Here's a real example - Samsung produces the displays in each and every iPhone despite their own Galaxy phones being direct competitors. Samsung is also a sprawling company; their smartphone division is separate from their display division which is separate from their semiconductor division. Despite being in competition with Apple in the smartphone arena Samsung isn't going to steal Apple's secrets in areas where they work together because of ironclad NDAs, and because Samsung's display division would lose vital business from Apple if they breached the NDA.
 
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Workerbee Redux said:
LOL, no. That's not how industry works. First, good luck reverse-engineering any trade secrets out of 30bn transistors, that would take years. Second, the NDA's prohibiting this would stipulate heavy penalties. Third, the damage to intel's reputation would be immense.
In fact, intel and Apple would work together to get Apple's IP on intel's foundries.
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mehh, all new chip designs take years. Intel's reputation is already in the gutter. Now their main problem is to make sure their revenue does not follow. Lastly, the penalties would take 10 years in court.

The main reason this is not likely to happen is Apple's ultra wide front end execution design just does not translate to x86. While it would be useful to get a close look at everything else Apple got "just right", this is the heart of the design path that Intel cannot go down with x86.
 
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amnesia0287 said:
The article is about making Apple designed chips in intel fabs, which is extremely likely to happen eventually. At least unless apple goes all in and builds their own fabs lol. It just won’t happen for a few years tho because Intel’s current fab capacity is mostly outdated (well sort of, their 14nm process is actually super advanced, just not efficient enough to compare to modern stuff). But once they start getting more of the same EUV machines as TSMC is using from Samsung, as well as the other advanced process nodes they are working on, it should be much more competitive. They just gotta wait their turn to buy the stuff lol. Too much demand for lithography machines. (Cause silicon shortages).
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This has almost no chance of happening.

Really!?!? You think Intel's problem is they are still waiting on EUV machines from Samsung.... Firstly, Samsung does not make chip fab machines. It's some other company whose name escapes me right now.
 
I hope to win the £25 Euro Millions lottery on Friday. Theres a 0.000001% chance of winning it and I don't plan on making any decisions about my spending based on winning the lottery before then.

Hope is a subjective word and I think Intel are using it to basically say, we are done with Apple and realise we made a mistake.

I'm sure Intel know, there is the chance of me winning the lottery is far greater than Apple doing a U Turn.
 
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MJaP said:
Apple will (eventually) go with whatever solution offers the best solution to generate revenue for them. They moved from PowerPC to Intel because PowerPC was so abysmally underperforming compared to Intel due to lack of development by IBM, now Apple have moved from Intel to their own M processors for the same reason. Apple could potentially shift again in a decade or so should Intel or another CPU manufacturer outperform the M chips... however unlike in the past there would be more resistance to do so as Apple now has full control over design and production and as we all know Apple won't want to give that up easily.
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Aside form performance - Apple sees value in controlling this part of their platform. To date - Apple has done very well this approach.
 
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mac_hack_attack said:
mehh, all new chip designs take years. Intel's reputation is already in the gutter. Now their main problem is to make sure their revenue does not follow. Lastly, the penalties would take 10 years in court.

The main reason this is not likely to happen is Apple's ultra wide front end execution design just does not translate to x86. While it would be useful to get a close look at everything else Apple got "just right", this is the heart of the design path that Intel cannot go down with x86.
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That's really not what intel is offering, they want Apple as a customer for their fabs. And I would bet that Apple will take that offer over the next two years.
 
If TSMC factory was to be hit by a natural disaster then Apple is screwed because nobody else can produce their chips.

The world saw what happens when a chip factory is affected, just like memory chip producer Hynix when their factory suffered a fire and at Micron when they had a power outage which resulted in much of the production being dumped.
 
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Everyone in the Industry was pissed off with Intels long release cycle to give us 100mhz upgrades in CPU speeds, enough is enough x86 should die and Intel should look at making ARM Processors instead of x86 Vendor lock-ins, Those days are Numbered. And if they dont want to do that then Intel should consider a career change, try making routers instead of processors.
 
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He's not talking about putting an x86 processor back but simply manufacturing Apple's silicon which could be a good thing if Intel comes back in the nm race.
It's never good to rely only on one manufacturer (TSMC), competition is welcomed and good for everyone
 
Workerbee Redux said:
That's really not what intel is offering, they want Apple as a customer for their fabs. And I would bet that Apple will take that offer over the next two years.
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Intels fabs are not ready for their own processors but lets see if they can actually deliver a 3nm fab which Apple will be moving to in 2024. If Intel can get their fabs ready they still can get an x86 design out in no time. Though they really should move to a chiplet architecture fast. Otherwise they will continue to suffer. They gotta start copying AMD, and stop ridiculing their design as "glued" together.
 
mac_hack_attack said:
This has almost no chance of happening.

Really!?!? You think Intel's problem is they are still waiting on EUV machines from Samsung.... Firstly, Samsung does not make chip fab machines. It's some other company whose name escapes me right now.
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ASML is the company that makes EUV tools.
 
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Given the state of Intel's 10nm and 7nm nodes I hardly think this is likely. TSMC is increasing its' lead and Samsung looks to be very aggressive with its GAA technology.

I'm glad Patrick Gelsinger is now at the helm but Intel has institutional rot that's going to be hard to fix - although no where as bad as Boeing.
 
it would be great if Apple could fab their chips at Intel. The more that can be done at home the more secure the company's future.
 
As several others have said here, Intel wants to be involved in manufacturing future A-series and M-series SoC's. The reign of x86-64 is soon coming to an end.
 
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