No one knows for sure how many people have "seen" the issue. It's quite clear that every iPhone 4 has the issue now though. The fact that it's made international news shows that enough people have complained this far.
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Detailed Analysis of iPhone 4 Signal Strength Dropoff
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No one knows for sure how many people have "seen" the issue. It's quite clear that every iPhone 4 has the issue now though. The fact that it's made international news shows that enough people have complained this far.
I don't know how anyone could defend Apple
I have stood inline for every iphone and have a number of other Apple products. That being said, I am not sure how people continue to defend apple. Great the antenna gets a better signal but not if your holding it the way many people hold the phone. So as a lefty who hates cases I have to deal with a far less superior antenna since I hold it "wrong."
What is disturbing has been Apples response or lack thereof. I have always loved Apple products and loved cheering for the little guy as we slowly ate into Microsoft's piece of the pie. Those days are gone and now Apple is the big guy. I think Jobs was so focussed on making the phone small because he saw that as a huge selling point. Well, he missed the mark as everyone else is going for bigger phones and they are selling. I think apple is feeling the pressure of being number one and pushed out a product that was not ready for primetime yet. And their response, sad.
Apple has a cult like following and I believe this incident, if not remedied, will lead many of those longtime followers to go somewhere else. Sure Apple will continue to grow but it will loose the base that made it so popular. Does Apple care????? I think so but since they cannot admit they messed up (due to the possibility of litigation) they are screwed and we have to listen to BS excuses and wonder if the problem will be fixed. I will return my phone in a few weeks if apple does not make good on the issue. For me its the principle. Ill go back to my 3gs and wait for a good chance to jump ship for a good phone....or Ill wait until next year and see what apple has. But I will not use a bumper and ignore that Apple sold me a defective product.....especially after all these years of buying apple products.
I have stood inline for every iphone and have a number of other Apple products. That being said, I am not sure how people continue to defend apple. Great the antenna gets a better signal but not if your holding it the way many people hold the phone. So as a lefty who hates cases I have to deal with a far less superior antenna since I hold it "wrong."
What is disturbing has been Apples response or lack thereof. I have always loved Apple products and loved cheering for the little guy as we slowly ate into Microsoft's piece of the pie. Those days are gone and now Apple is the big guy. I think Jobs was so focussed on making the phone small because he saw that as a huge selling point. Well, he missed the mark as everyone else is going for bigger phones and they are selling. I think apple is feeling the pressure of being number one and pushed out a product that was not ready for primetime yet. And their response, sad.
Apple has a cult like following and I believe this incident, if not remedied, will lead many of those longtime followers to go somewhere else. Sure Apple will continue to grow but it will loose the base that made it so popular. Does Apple care????? I think so but since they cannot admit they messed up (due to the possibility of litigation) they are screwed and we have to listen to BS excuses and wonder if the problem will be fixed. I will return my phone in a few weeks if apple does not make good on the issue. For me its the principle. Ill go back to my 3gs and wait for a good chance to jump ship for a good phone....or Ill wait until next year and see what apple has. But I will not use a bumper and ignore that Apple sold me a defective product.....especially after all these years of buying apple products.
You see using your fingers as a limitation? I see it as a luxury and I'm sure most will agree. You know that you can use a stylus with the iPhone right? Therefore having both options is surely a good thing. I think you're losing the plot.
I think you have contradicted yourself here. You claim that a lot of the problems being reported are nonsense but at the same time acknowledge that a 20 dB loss by holding the iPhone 4 naturally is a lot.
Can you not see that it is this very significant 20db loss that occurs when holding the phone naturally that is causing the problems that are being reported? This article proves that the problems being reported are NOT nonsense.
This article also proves that every single phone WILL NOT behave the same way in regards to this and that the IP4 suffers from it 10 times worse than the 3GS and 2 x worse than the Nexus one.
The article concludes with:
"The fact of the matter is that either the most sensitive region of the antenna should have an insulative coating, or everyone should use a case"
So in order to provide phones which do not suffer from this serious issue and work out of the box as advertised, Apple should either:
A) Recall the phones and give the antennas an insulative coating.
B) Provide everyone with a free bumper.
I'm not reading the whole thread, but just had a thought pop into my head while reading the story.
HOw much testing was done in vehicles? In CA you can't drive and hold a phone, you have to use a headset or be stopped right? And the test models weren't often using the same case hence not a lot of real world holding of actual phones going on there.
Apple doesn't let them out into the wild (ok, didn't USED TO), so in order to test, discretion would indicate the use of a BT headset with the phone elsewhere. I'm assuming that works with full signal strength? Depending of course where you throw it of course.
ANYWAY, i just had to get that off my chest! Back to lurking as a non-iphone user
HOw much testing was done in vehicles? In CA you can't drive and hold a phone, you have to use a headset or be stopped right? And the test models weren't often using the same case hence not a lot of real world holding of actual phones going on there.
Apple doesn't let them out into the wild (ok, didn't USED TO), so in order to test, discretion would indicate the use of a BT headset with the phone elsewhere. I'm assuming that works with full signal strength? Depending of course where you throw it of course.
ANYWAY, i just had to get that off my chest! Back to lurking as a non-iphone user
I'm not reading the whole thread, but just had a thought pop into my head while reading the story.
HOw much testing was done in vehicles? In CA you can't drive and hold a phone, you have to use a headset or be stopped right? And the test models weren't often using the same case hence not a lot of real world holding of actual phones going on there.
Apple doesn't let them out into the wild (ok, didn't USED TO), so in order to test, discretion would indicate the use of a BT headset with the phone elsewhere. I'm assuming that works with full signal strength? Depending of course where you throw it of course.
ANYWAY, i just had to get that off my chest! Back to lurking as a non-iphone user
Actually a good observation. The now infamous Gizmodo phone was inside a case that made it look like a 3GS...so the antenna would be covered up! I really wonder if due to the quest for keeping it a secret...that the phone was not widely used naked?! This might be a bigger issue that originally thought since Apple didn't use them out in the open uncovered.
How iOS4 maps the bars to signal strength makes sense, and it would not surprise me if Nexus One did it the same way.
The purpose of the bars is to provide the user feedback on how to position the phone in the optimal way in order to maximize call integrity. If the signal is very strong, positon doesn't matter. It is only when the signal is marginal that it matters. So naturally the bar read out would have high granularity in the marginal range, and very little granularity in the stronger range.
It makes no sense to have an even gradation if you are trying to provide useful information to the user.
Skeptics? Why would they - it totally vindicates their complaints of dropped calls with normal usage.
If anything its 'point match' that Apple should include a bumper with every purchase - if the phone won't operate properly without it to a large number of people anything else is attorney general reporting territory (can't sell something as complete and then have it require another item you must purchase to have it work properly)
That says nothing about whether the average iPhone 4 is better or worse than the average iPhone 3.
Additionally, many users have been hearing there are problems, and have been confirming that they are experiencing bar drops. Bar drops are not a problem-- only dropped calls are a problem. There has been no scientific evidence that dropped calls are worse for the average user than for previous iPhones. SOME users are experiencing worse problems-- but where's the evidence that drops are worse on AVERAGE?
Finally, Apple, and the iPhone specifically, are under intense scrutiny by the media. Hundreds of complaints about product quality in a short period of time wwould be enough to make international news.
Deja vu
Talking with the fanboys is like talking to big tobacco execs in the 70's - their defense of a defective product now in the face of evidence of the design flaw is almost surreal.
If it needs a case to work properly the cases should be included with the purchase, simple as that. And no a 20x degrading of signal over the previous model of the exact same brand of phone is not 'working properly'.
Talking with the fanboys is like talking to big tobacco execs in the 70's - their defense of a defective product now in the face of evidence of the design flaw is almost surreal.
If it needs a case to work properly the cases should be included with the purchase, simple as that. And no a 20x degrading of signal over the previous model of the exact same brand of phone is not 'working properly'.
Brian Klug & Anand Lai Shimpi's provided the world with an EXCELLENT analysis of the iPhone 4 antenna system (and an outstanding overall review too). It was literally a joy to read that entire article! Thank you Brian and Anand!! Great job!
As for the iPhone 4's antenna system...
Prior to the release of the iPhone 4, the biggest ongoing complaint about the previous iPhone models was low or non-existant signal levels in areas where other cell phones were completely useable. The iPhone 4's antenna design is quite obviously an attempt to rectify that problem. The AnandTech article verifies that Apple did, indeed, not only rectified that problem, but produced a phone that outperforms competitor phones in its ability to remain connected. The article shows that the iPhone 4 had the ability to maintain a 3-way conference call AND download data, all while at the marginal -113 db signal strength.
Now, I realize there's the attenuation issue and I'll get to that in a second. But, for a few moments, please put away your hate and negativity and ponder what Apple has accomplished. For me, this new antenna design will come in VERY handy. My wife and I travel and visit friends and family that live in rural areas that are on the very fringes of cell coverage. With my iPhone 3GS (and all previous iPhones), I could literally stand in "just the right spot" in their homes and get enough signal to make a call, but not enough signal to check E-mail. Based on AnandTech's article, there is most definitely hope that the iPhone 4 will not only allow me to make calls in those rural locations we visit, but actually check E-mail and/or browse the web. This is a significant improvement for me, should it all turn out to be true!
But.... ahh... there's that pesky signal attenuation issue. AnandTech's article clearly documents a varying level of attenuation, depending on how the iPhone 4 is held. The attenuation is reduced to very acceptable levels (better than a competitor phone) when a Bumper is installed.
So, it would seem that Apple's advice is good advice... Don't hold it that way or get a case.
From a cold, hard logic standpoint, that's where the story would end. But most humans are far more emotional than they are logical. So the story can't end there.
I agree with Brian and Anand's conclusion regarding a non-conductive coating on the stainless steel band. (The free Bumper solution is also a good one, but there are too many people that don't want a Bumper.) So, I feel Apple should immediately suspend all sales of the iPhone 4, recall all unsold phones from stores and distributors, and add a step at the factory to apply a non-conductive clear coating to the stainless steel antenna band. Then, before Apple starts selling iPhone 4s to new customers, replace/exchange the iPhone 4s already in the hands of customers.
In the meantime, for anyone that is unhappy with the idea of either a Bumper/case, or a non-conductive coating on the stainless steel band, well, simply put, it's time for you to return your iPhone 4 while you are still within your return window. Accordingly, Apple should instruct all retailers to wave any restocking fees.
My iPhone 4 is in a Bumper and I PREFER the appearance with the Bumper. My thoughts on that and my review of the Bumper (with high-quality photos) can be found here:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/950946/
I'd again like to thank Briand and Andand for the very thorough review of the iPhone 4. I love technology and "gadgets" and I get excited about new electronic toys like so many others. But I also try to maintain a semblance of logic in my passion for all things electronic. My logical brain and my personal experience tells me that the iPhone 4 is the best iPhone so far and the best mobile device I've ever owned. With the Bumper in place, I'm good to go. But if I didn't like the Bumper (or any other case), I would simply return the iPhone 4 rather than incessantly whine about the signal attenuation issue on an internet forum.
Mark
As for the iPhone 4's antenna system...
Prior to the release of the iPhone 4, the biggest ongoing complaint about the previous iPhone models was low or non-existant signal levels in areas where other cell phones were completely useable. The iPhone 4's antenna design is quite obviously an attempt to rectify that problem. The AnandTech article verifies that Apple did, indeed, not only rectified that problem, but produced a phone that outperforms competitor phones in its ability to remain connected. The article shows that the iPhone 4 had the ability to maintain a 3-way conference call AND download data, all while at the marginal -113 db signal strength.
Now, I realize there's the attenuation issue and I'll get to that in a second. But, for a few moments, please put away your hate and negativity and ponder what Apple has accomplished. For me, this new antenna design will come in VERY handy. My wife and I travel and visit friends and family that live in rural areas that are on the very fringes of cell coverage. With my iPhone 3GS (and all previous iPhones), I could literally stand in "just the right spot" in their homes and get enough signal to make a call, but not enough signal to check E-mail. Based on AnandTech's article, there is most definitely hope that the iPhone 4 will not only allow me to make calls in those rural locations we visit, but actually check E-mail and/or browse the web. This is a significant improvement for me, should it all turn out to be true!
But.... ahh... there's that pesky signal attenuation issue. AnandTech's article clearly documents a varying level of attenuation, depending on how the iPhone 4 is held. The attenuation is reduced to very acceptable levels (better than a competitor phone) when a Bumper is installed.
So, it would seem that Apple's advice is good advice... Don't hold it that way or get a case.
From a cold, hard logic standpoint, that's where the story would end. But most humans are far more emotional than they are logical. So the story can't end there.
I agree with Brian and Anand's conclusion regarding a non-conductive coating on the stainless steel band. (The free Bumper solution is also a good one, but there are too many people that don't want a Bumper.) So, I feel Apple should immediately suspend all sales of the iPhone 4, recall all unsold phones from stores and distributors, and add a step at the factory to apply a non-conductive clear coating to the stainless steel antenna band. Then, before Apple starts selling iPhone 4s to new customers, replace/exchange the iPhone 4s already in the hands of customers.
In the meantime, for anyone that is unhappy with the idea of either a Bumper/case, or a non-conductive coating on the stainless steel band, well, simply put, it's time for you to return your iPhone 4 while you are still within your return window. Accordingly, Apple should instruct all retailers to wave any restocking fees.
My iPhone 4 is in a Bumper and I PREFER the appearance with the Bumper. My thoughts on that and my review of the Bumper (with high-quality photos) can be found here:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/950946/
I'd again like to thank Briand and Andand for the very thorough review of the iPhone 4. I love technology and "gadgets" and I get excited about new electronic toys like so many others. But I also try to maintain a semblance of logic in my passion for all things electronic. My logical brain and my personal experience tells me that the iPhone 4 is the best iPhone so far and the best mobile device I've ever owned. With the Bumper in place, I'm good to go. But if I didn't like the Bumper (or any other case), I would simply return the iPhone 4 rather than incessantly whine about the signal attenuation issue on an internet forum.
Mark
Let's not forget that data transmission over 3G/edge are seriously impacted. Its not all about dropping calls.
Anandtech measurements are flawed
True. 20 dB loss is way too high but it can happen. But 1.9 dB loss is for the 3GS is not real either. I haven't held an iPhone 4G. But just did a quick test with an iPhone 3G and measurements went from -89 to -113 dBm. That is 24 dB loss. I question Anandtech measurements. You can try it yourself.
True. 20 dB loss is way too high but it can happen. But 1.9 dB loss is for the 3GS is not real either. I haven't held an iPhone 4G. But just did a quick test with an iPhone 3G and measurements went from -89 to -113 dBm. That is 24 dB loss. I question Anandtech measurements. You can try it yourself.
On the contrary, the article states quite specifically that signal attenuation due to holding naturally is 10 x worse on the IP4 than the IP3GS.
He meant the skeptics who still claim Steve is right, this is a non-issue, and to just "Hold Different"™. Like the ones in this thread still claiming the antenna on iPhone 4 is great and that there is no issue.
maybe ith too thoon to thell
Is this really it for Apple?
*Will they finally take their well deserved medicine and
pull out of the mobile markets, retreating tail wet and trembling between their technologically shaky legs, or be doomed to peddling this tremendously overhyped piece of major news network confounding, high definition retina displayed, NAND based, iOS platform app driven, dual-video HD camera /bluetooth /wifi /usb /multitouch /multimedia iTuned iPod iWreless iNternet iDevice iFad unceremoniously attached to a cell phone that, get this, does not even remotely always have the best reception in all the circumstances conceived by an uninterested and intrepid scientist who with no self-benefit has generously produced an uncorroborated though succinct and apparently unbiased independent online study thankfully noticed by a popular rumors site themed for said company, it's uninspired products, and it's tired, disengaged founders and sadistic soulless employees, with each possible new direction darker and bleaker than the last, as they slowly thrash the last death squeals of a large dying irrelevant enterprise, a tragic secret and inescapable solitary imprisonment of a bitter and viscous fate twisted and obliterated as though ibrick by ibrick out of their own fatal and epic mistakes, at each whimpering retreat a tightening rope wound again and again around their thinning neck, another shovel of dark heavy earth upon their long overdue corporate grave above which you so joyously and righteously dance while hoards of sniveling weeping fanbois watch cursing and convulsing in defeated angst?
Is this really it for Apple?
*Will they finally take their well deserved medicine and
pull out of the mobile markets, retreating tail wet and trembling between their technologically shaky legs, or be doomed to peddling this tremendously overhyped piece of major news network confounding, high definition retina displayed, NAND based, iOS platform app driven, dual-video HD camera /bluetooth /wifi /usb /multitouch /multimedia iTuned iPod iWreless iNternet iDevice iFad unceremoniously attached to a cell phone that, get this, does not even remotely always have the best reception in all the circumstances conceived by an uninterested and intrepid scientist who with no self-benefit has generously produced an uncorroborated though succinct and apparently unbiased independent online study thankfully noticed by a popular rumors site themed for said company, it's uninspired products, and it's tired, disengaged founders and sadistic soulless employees, with each possible new direction darker and bleaker than the last, as they slowly thrash the last death squeals of a large dying irrelevant enterprise, a tragic secret and inescapable solitary imprisonment of a bitter and viscous fate twisted and obliterated as though ibrick by ibrick out of their own fatal and epic mistakes, at each whimpering retreat a tightening rope wound again and again around their thinning neck, another shovel of dark heavy earth upon their long overdue corporate grave above which you so joyously and righteously dance while hoards of sniveling weeping fanbois watch cursing and convulsing in defeated angst?
Form Follows Function
So the electronics inside the IP4 are better able to process the weaker signal provided by an inferior antenna design. Imagine what phone you would have if it were a black plastic monolith tucked inside the case you were going to buy anyway. Best possible antennas. Best chips. Your case.
So the electronics inside the IP4 are better able to process the weaker signal provided by an inferior antenna design. Imagine what phone you would have if it were a black plastic monolith tucked inside the case you were going to buy anyway. Best possible antennas. Best chips. Your case.
Anandtech measurements are flawed
Further I can prove the same thing with an Ericsson K800i TEMS test mobile unit that costs 15.000 Euros. Again, measuring RF is not trivial.
Further I can prove the same thing with an Ericsson K800i TEMS test mobile unit that costs 15.000 Euros. Again, measuring RF is not trivial.
So, to summarize Anandtech's study this is what you get:
1. The pictorial signal reception is NOT linear, and
2. If you hold/short the sides of the iphone you experience a lot of signal drop
but because the signal bars are NOT linear, you might risk losing all 4 bars and maybe the service as experienced.
But if you are just a little bit more cautious and watch how you hold the phone, chances are that you will get 0 problems. That is, if you are not going asking for a drop call on purpose...
3. Signal drop is one issue, but reception is quite another, and the iphone 4 does indeed get the best reception of every phone bar none.
4. Apple did made a blooper without adding a simple insulating coating to avoid all this negativity, because the phone is superb. Let's just hope that they will add this routine in the future phones in their future batches
1. The pictorial signal reception is NOT linear, and
2. If you hold/short the sides of the iphone you experience a lot of signal drop
but because the signal bars are NOT linear, you might risk losing all 4 bars and maybe the service as experienced.
But if you are just a little bit more cautious and watch how you hold the phone, chances are that you will get 0 problems. That is, if you are not going asking for a drop call on purpose...
3. Signal drop is one issue, but reception is quite another, and the iphone 4 does indeed get the best reception of every phone bar none.
4. Apple did made a blooper without adding a simple insulating coating to avoid all this negativity, because the phone is superb. Let's just hope that they will add this routine in the future phones in their future batches
Has anyone run some antenna tests with the bare iphone sitting on a table compared to a hand held cased/bumper iPhone???
That's all I want to know before buying this phone.
Who isn't going to case this glass sandwich anyway? I sure am and if using a bumper or case has the same antenna strength as an unheld phone, then that would be the answer for me at least!
Anybody seen such a test anywhere?
That's all I want to know before buying this phone.
Who isn't going to case this glass sandwich anyway? I sure am and if using a bumper or case has the same antenna strength as an unheld phone, then that would be the answer for me at least!
Anybody seen such a test anywhere?
Just by holding naturally or by deliberately covering the antenna area?
Can you produce a 20 db drop on any other phone with just the application of a fingertip?
The 3G and 3GS will show reduced bars and reduced dB signal depending on location, but the important thing is that this does not affect their performance. The iPhone 4, however, shows the effects much more drastically, and said effects do damage the performance of the phone.
Which is where the problem that needs fixing comes in.
Which is where the problem that needs fixing comes in.
yes dotcom2. here : http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2
The short version of it is that you don't really need to buy one if you don't want/like or want to spent even more. Just hold the phone by touching the lower base with 2 fingers and one on its back and you get the best reception and signal/call quality one can get with current technology.
erm: what was the case of those leeches agin the Kershaw/cutter & co ???
The short version of it is that you don't really need to buy one if you don't want/like or want to spent even more. Just hold the phone by touching the lower base with 2 fingers and one on its back and you get the best reception and signal/call quality one can get with current technology.
erm: what was the case of those leeches agin the Kershaw/cutter & co ???
OK - I've read the article and the cold facts are that signal attentuation, holding the phone naturally, is 19.8dB. On the 3GS it is 1.9. Fine. That explains a lot.
Where the author loses me is his claim that the iPhone 4 has much better reception than the Nexius One or 3GS. He offers no facts or metrics to back this up, other than his own opinion based on individual experience.
His reception claims are subjective, his attenuation measurements are not.
Where the author loses me is his claim that the iPhone 4 has much better reception than the Nexius One or 3GS. He offers no facts or metrics to back this up, other than his own opinion based on individual experience.
His reception claims are subjective, his attenuation measurements are not.