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10/10 for effort but you're still talking out of your butt. The reception defect isn't a limitation, it is a flaw. Had Apple known about it they would have fixed it. It's already been said that the impovement can exist without the defect by using some coating. The talk about gloves and styluses is just pointless.

The limitation is that yes, if you put the antenna on the outside, it is going to get touched (unless you use one that sticks out on top, and you can't anymore cause by law it cannot have antenna on the part closest to the head).

if you put it inside, you either are going to have to have a bigger case or a smaller and weaker antenna. Plus the fact it will always have something covering the antenna weakening the signal, no ifs ands or buts. Only difference is that at least the covering isn't as bad on signal. So, given those rules, Apple decided to risk the antenna will get touched but it will get better reception and put it on the outside (and they ahd to do it in a way to keep the antenna signal away from the head plus make it look good cause people expect Apple to make a good looking product. There are enough people bitching about not wanting a case cause it covers up the beautiful design that at the same time they are bitching that it forces them to hold it differently or cover it up with a case!).

So far, I have yet to see anyone actually propose a design that would allow the signal to come in just as good, keep the phone just as small, and allow you to hold it any way you'd like to (or even in a way that doesn't conflict with how most people hold it) that would still be allowed by the FDA. All I see are people bitching at APple to fix it now! Now now now! Without even any suggestions themselves or even showing they understand what limitations Apple has to get around to fix it.

So yes, there was a compromise done with the antenna design. Maybe Apple did overlook it and maybe they would have a different design. But chances are then it may be a phone that isn't able to use as weak a signal or is bigger cause it had to encompass the antenna (or has a smaller battery). Technology isn't magic, you can only do so much. Shoot, even in fantasy books most magic has rules that limits it as well ;).

My point is, that for the good, I think it is an ok compromise. Sure, I'd love it if they can find a solution that doesn't compromise too much. That would be awesome. But, I don't think overall it's a bad phone even with that flaw. And I don't think the touchscreen is bad at all even though I can't use gloves. But, that is a limitation of that technology (and yes, I have come across times I have had to take gloves off when it would have been convenient not to, or at least less comfortable cause my hands were freezing and still warming up from coming inside).

In the end, I think people are making way more of a deal out of this than it is. And I think it is fair for Apple to tell people they should hold the phone a certain way to get the best performance out of it when what they are saying really isn't that unreasonable. I mean all the time companies tell people how to use a product. And yet they aren't yelled at for daring to tell them how to use a product (my old Nokia phone put in the manual don't hold the phone here). It's honeslty not hard to avoid that corner and still hold the phone securely and comfortabley. It just requires retraining your habits some. Yes, retraining habits can be a pain, but most people can handle it.
 
Looks more like classic cover up for apple and on top of that Apple doing it classic BS making things look better than it really is.
It making the bars effectually worthless. They make it look like 5 bars all the time so when you compare it to another phone it like oh look I have better signal than you. This screws AT&T over because 5 bars really could be 2-3 bars on most phones.

My blackberry is showing me 3 bars at -92 dB It goes to 0 bars at about the same point as the iPhone and drops the call at around the same dB. Holding the phone naturally I get resuelts a lot like the 3Gs of 1-2. Most I could force a DB change with my had at 10 and that took a lot of work and required both hands and holding it close to my body.
 
In the meantime, for anyone that is unhappy with the idea of either a Bumper/case, or a non-conductive coating on the stainless steel band, well, simply put, it's time for you to return your iPhone 4 while you are still within your return window. Accordingly, Apple should instruct all retailers to wave any restocking fees.

But if I didn't like the Bumper (or any other case), I would simply return the iPhone 4 rather than incessantly whine about the signal attenuation issue on an internet forum.

Mark

Good post Mark, and some good points, I am willing to bet Apple have already made the change to units being manufactured from now on, we will see.

Kev
 
In the end, I think people are making way more of a deal out of this than it is. And I think it is fair for Apple to tell people they should hold the phone a certain way to get the best performance out of it when what they are saying really isn't that unreasonable.
when the difference between correctly and not is a quarter inch on an object that is now out of sight, yes it is unreasonable. Even the people in their own ads don't hold it 'correctly'. If the only way for it to be safely held consistently and reliably is a case then there should be one in the box AND the accessories like the dock should be usable with the case on.

It's honeslty not hard to avoid that corner and still hold the phone securely and comfortabley.
Actually harder than you think for those without doll sized hands or need a firm grip on handheld things.
 
Actually, that was gigawatts, pronounced jiga. And a gigawatt is 1000000 watts. If that movie had been made in 2005, they probably would've pronounced it giga, just like gigabyte, since people are now much more familiar with the prefix.

It was pronounced "jiga" only because the scientific advisor on set of the movie pronounced it that way. That's not to say WE wouldn't pronounce differently. ;)
 
I pretty much feel the same way. The horrible fact is I would still rather have this phone with it's glaring flaw, than a different phone.

Getting a different phone would cause me a load of new problems. All my other gear is Apple gear (so syncing would be more of an issue). I have a Mobile Me account. I have invested a significant amount in iPhone apps (satnav for example)...that money would be wasted.

But if they don't give me a free bumper, I'm going to stand outside the Apple Store and scare away customers until they do.

Ah, now that is more like it, and more how I feel. I have also decided to keep it as I sold my 3GS for great price recently. If I had not sold that, I would have waited a while now I think, well probably not actually.

A good friend of mine has told me the bumper is actually an improvement to the phone, so like you, I want a free one, and I am gonna get one :)

Kev
 
The limitation is that yes, if you put the antenna on the outside, it is going to get touched (unless you use one that sticks out on top, and you can't anymore cause by law it cannot have antenna on the part closest to the head).

That's the point, that's not a limitation. Keep arguing yourself into a hole. :rolleyes:

There is no inherent limitation in antenna technology at work here. This is a design/engineering choice gone bad. It is very much a design flaw.

End of story.
 
So far, I have yet to see anyone actually propose a design that would allow the signal to come in just as good, keep the phone just as small, and allow you to hold it any way you'd like to (or even in a way that doesn't conflict with how most people hold it) that would still be allowed by the FDA. All I see are people bitching at APple to fix it now! Now now now! Without even any suggestions themselves or even showing they understand what limitations Apple has to get around to fix it.

Woah, I am quite the Apple apologist myself, but I give them a fairly large part of my income every year to do this sort of thinking. Nokia seem to be able to make very small phones with great reception?

In the end, I think people are making way more of a deal out of this than it is. And I think it is fair for Apple to tell people they should hold the phone a certain way to get the best performance out of it when what they are saying really isn't that unreasonable. I mean all the time companies tell people how to use a product. And yet they aren't yelled at for daring to tell them how to use a product (my old Nokia phone put in the manual don't hold the phone here). It's honeslty not hard to avoid that corner and still hold the phone securely and comfortabley. It just requires retraining your habits some. Yes, retraining habits can be a pain, but most people can handle it.

You know, until this morning, I thought the same for the last week. But today, I got to thinking, Apple have got over 42 billion USD in the slush fund, and I think they could wear the cost of a 2 USD bumper for those that complain, which lets face it, a huge number will not anyway.

Kev
 
OK - I've read the article and the cold facts are that signal attentuation, while holding the phone naturally, is 19.8dB. On the 3GS it is 1.9. Fine. That explains a lot.

Where the author loses me is his claim that the iPhone 4 has much better reception than the Nexius One or 3GS. He offers no facts or metrics to back this up, other than his own opinion based on individual experience.

His reception claims are subjective, his attenuation measurements are not.

Uhh.. his reception claims are nearly as subjective as his attenuation claims. He held his phone(s) in a few different ways, recorded the attenuation for each, and put it in a table. It would have been nice to see a table that had the 3 phones, and the RSSI at which each phone drops calls/data connection, but if you're taking his word for his attenuation findings, you should probably take his word for reception characteristics, too.

His point was that at -113dB, the iPhone 4 held calls while the previous iPhone didn't.

Just because he didn't put reception characteristics in a table doesn't mean his findings were any more subjective than his "cold hard facts" you seem to accept so easily.
 
You know, until this morning, I thought the same for the last week. But today, I got to thinking, Apple have got over 42 billion USD in the slush fund, and I think they could wear the cost of a 2 USD bumper for those that complain, which lets face it, a huge number will not anyway.

Kev

Think more. A free bumper in the packaging. And at 2$, you're being very generous, there's probably about 0.10$ worth of material and another 0.10$ worth of manufacturing/shipping cost.

Even then, it comes out of their per-unit profit, not from their 42 billion $ cash reserves, since this is not something they give out free to everyone, only to people with an iPhone 4.

However, to do this, they have to admit there's a problem. Doing so makes Steve look bad. I think his one-liner is actually what is screwing Apple now, they can't go back on the CEO's word that this is a non-issue and "not a reception issue".
 
A good friend of mine has told me the bumper is actually an improvement to the phone, so like you, I want a free one, and I am gonna get one :)

I have wondered if when I go to return it at the AT&T store next week if they won't offer a free bumper - I mean steve doesn't care about the customers but with the Verizon news AT&T wants to retain every one they can for as long as they can.
 
Ok, dude. That's just ridiculous. They clearly did it for function. If it was form they would have just slapped a useless piece of metal around the end.

Now, obviously, they made mistakes. (VERY much so!) I'm not excusing Apple. They did this wrong. But it was a mistake in the pursuit of function over form.

You can't just say the opposite of reality and hope people believe it.

If they put the antennas inside and then just slapped a useless piece of metal around the end the phone would never completed a single call. So, no this was not possible. The only way to have a solid piece of metal on the outside was to make it an antenna which they did. And the antenna now performs predictably poor/unreliably. The real question about iPhone 4 design is what was more stupid - to place the antenna outside (where the hand usually is) or to make the case out of glass? To remedy both problems people will have to use cases. So the phone will now look like iPhone 3 but still will be less reliable and much more fragile. Epic fail.
 
Is this really it for Apple?
*
Will they finally take their well deserved medicine and
pull out of the mobile markets, retreating tail wet and trembling between their technologically shaky legs, or
be doomed to peddling this tremendously overhyped piece of major news network confounding, high definition retina displayed, NAND based, iOS platform app driven, dual-video HD camera /bluetooth /wifi /usb /multitouch /multimedia iTuned iPod iWreless iNternet iDevice iFad unceremoniously attached to a cell phone that, get this, does not even remotely always have the best reception in all the circumstances conceived by an uninterested and intrepid scientist who with no self-benefit has generously produced an uncorroborated though succinct and apparently unbiased independent online study thankfully noticed by a popular rumors site themed for said company, it's uninspired products, and it's tired, disengaged founders and sadistic soulless employees, with each possible new direction darker and bleaker than the last, as they slowly thrash the last death squeals of a large dying irrelevant enterprise, a tragic secret and inescapable solitary imprisonment of a bitter and viscous fate twisted and obliterated as though ibrick by ibrick out of their own fatal and epic mistakes, at each whimpering retreat a tightening rope wound again and again around their thinning neck, another shovel of dark heavy earth upon their long overdue corporate grave above which you so joyously and righteously dance while hoards of sniveling weeping fanbois watch cursing and convulsing in defeated angst?


lolcat.jpg

Bless you for an ambitious and entertaining post. :) +100
 
Think more. A free bumper in the packaging. And at 2$, you're being very generous, there's probably about 0.10$ worth of material and another 0.10$ worth of manufacturing/shipping cost.

Even then, it comes out of their per-unit profit, not from their 42 billion $ cash reserves, since this is not something they give out free to everyone, only to people with an iPhone 4.

However, to do this, they have to admit there's a problem. Doing so makes Steve look bad. I think his one-liner is actually what is screwing Apple now, they can't go back on the CEO's word that this is a non-issue and "not a reception issue".

Exactly, its not about the cost. Its all about having to admit to a DESIGN FLAW that Apple wants to avoid. To me its not been a huge issue yet.
 
All I know is, with my 3GS I could never load a webpage in my local deli or make a phone call. Today at lunch, the first time with my iP4 I was able to do both...

I'll take the improvement in general reception over the minor inconvenience as to where my fingers can rest on the outside of the frame.

Love the new design and phone.
 
I agree with Brian and Anand's conclusion regarding a non-conductive coating on the stainless steel band.
This seems like the right solution, but I can't help but think if it were that simple, why didn't Apple do it? Did they REALLY just not notice the issue, or did they try some sort of coating only to find out that it didn't make enough of a difference?

Personally I greatly prefer no case, although the Bumper isn't bad looking as far as those go, but I'd be concerned with it not fitting in the Dock or 3rd party connectors like I use in my car (plus whenever Proclip comes out with a holder), as the Anand review mentions - that's a deal breaker.
 
I just want people to know this:

I have cerebral palsy. Holding a phone is no problem for me, but when people start telling me how TO and how NOT to hold the phone, then it becomes a serious physical challenge for me. I cannot simply "not hold the phone that way" as Steve Jobs has suggested we do. I have one way I can hold the phone, which renders my phone useless as it drops the signal from 5 bars to 1.

Or I can try holding it a different way, and risk dropping the phone and shattering it which would almost be guaranteed to happen. It's one of those things you'd have to be sitting here looking at to understand my condition and how it effects me in this situation.

I called Apple about this - all I asked for was either a fix or - a case that costs them roughly 5 dollars to produce. I politely explained my situation and told a senior specialist that I should not have to buy extra equipment for a cell phone because of my disability. In my area, the phone goes from useful to useless the moment I pick it up.

I was completely denied. No case. No nothing. I get people want something for nothing, but when you have to deal with something like this everyday and you kinda learn to roll with the punches, it becomes difficult when people won't stand behind their products and make it right.

The iPhone 4 has a serious, unfixable flaw that renders the phone almost useless for many people. Could you ever believe that is even a sentence someone would type?

I was advised to return my phone. They would rather me return the phone than FIX THEIR PROBLEM, by giving a case. I don't care if they send me a pink one, just so I can use the phone. But I WILL return the phone, I'll go back to my 3G and I'll be happy, but I'll tell you what...

I am one of those Apple geeks that has been using Apple products since you were MADE FUN OF and INSULTED by the world for using them (Mac OS 8 anyone?) and I've been loyal. No more of that crap. I'm stuck with a phone that hangs up on the caller if my pinky touches the wrong spot. Completely disappointing and the arrogance of Apple's response is stunning and embarrassing.

-Crippled dude who can't use his iPhone 4
 
Uhh.. his reception claims are nearly as subjective as his attenuation claims. He held his phone(s) in a few different ways, recorded the attenuation for each, and put it in a table. It would have been nice to see a table that had the 3 phones, and the RSSI at which each phone drops calls/data connection, but if you're taking his word for his attenuation findings, you should probably take his word for reception characteristics, too.

His point was that at -113dB, the iPhone 4 held calls while the previous iPhone didn't.

Just because he didn't put reception characteristics in a table doesn't mean his findings were any more subjective than his "cold hard facts" you seem to accept so easily.

The difference between his reception claims and his attenuation figures is that he provided metrics and a method to measure the attenuation figures. The author should have at least compared the three phones side by side for reception. Reading the article he did not. Instead he based his reception claims on memory and supposition.

The following quotes from the article should be filed in the dictionary under "Subjective". I personally could make the opposite counter claims, and they would be equally as valid.

I felt like I was going places no iPhone had ever gone before. There's no doubt in my mind this iPhone gets the best cellular reception yet

I can honestly say that I've never held onto so many calls and data simultaneously on 1 bar at -113 dBm as I have with the iPhone 4
 
It making the bars effectually worthless. They make it look like 5 bars all the time so when you compare it to another phone it like oh look I have better signal than you. This screws AT&T over because 5 bars really could be 2-3 bars on most phones.

This situation already exists. There is no set standard between phones. This is nothing new.
 
Confirms to me that I'm staying with the 3GS until Apple builds another phone that doesn't require a case to make calls with. My 3GS is naked when I'm using it... why should I have to buy a case just to make calls with an iPhone 4? Apple really did a dumb thing here in the name of good looks.

this^
 
This situation already exists. There is no set standard between phones. This is nothing new.

true but the iPhone is one of the worse offenders. This more just proves it to me.

People complaining "I have 5 bars and a dropped call" 5 bars could really mean 2 bars on most phones.
Apple signal strength indicator is crap and this is proof of it.
 
Yeah, and imagine how much badwill they could've avoided if they had included bumpers (of the same color as the phone, white or black) and said "this is the deal. Our new antenna is great but this comes with a price: You mustn't touch it at a particular spot. So it's your call: Use the included bumper or avoid touching the phone there. Note: If you want a bumper in some other more fun color, you can buy extra ones."

Instead they said nothing and hoped that people would pay 30 bucks for a 30 cent silicon blob that fixes the design flaw. I mean seriously, how greedy can they get?

When I open up boxes from other manufacturers I usually find a bunch of nice accessories. My last SonyEricsson smartphone came with a dock and a leather pouch. The original iPhone came with a dock, but starting with the 3G you have to pay extra for that. The iPhone 4 is ludicrously expensive, an unlocked iP4 costs considerably more than most... couldn't they have thrown in that damn bumper?

It's OK when third parties exploit design flaws and shortcomings by selling cases, external batteries etc, or when antivirus software companies charge people to plug up holes in Windows. But it's pretty *********** far from OK when the SAME vendor who designed the flawed product does it.
You know what else they should do? Call every single person who might buy one and explain how it works. Because individuals shouldn't have any responsibility for their own electronics usage, that would be too hard!
 
Good thing I buy a new iPhone every 2 years so I'm keeping my 3GS for another year and will buy iPhone 5 which will solve these problems and be even better.
 
This seems like the right solution, but I can't help but think if it were that simple, why didn't Apple do it? Did they REALLY just not notice the issue, or did they try some sort of coating only to find out that it didn't make enough of a difference?

Personally I greatly prefer no case, although the Bumper isn't bad looking as far as those go, but I'd be concerned with it not fitting in the Dock or 3rd party connectors like I use in my car (plus whenever Proclip comes out with a holder), as the Anand review mentions - that's a deal breaker.

My money is on them not noticing this issue. As was already pointed out...it is very likely that very few if any iPhone4's that were used in the wild during development were in their naked state. We know for a fact that the Gizmodo unit was wrapped in a custom case designed to make it look like an iPhone 3GS. Also - if used while driving then they probably used a blue tooth device. That being the case...then Apple may not have discovered this problem until just in the last month when the phone became public. At that point...it was too late as hundreds of thousands if not a million units had most likely already been manufactured.

They are no doubt scrambling to try and find a fix ASAP. Shame on them for not realizing the conductivity of the human hand and identifying this as a potential problem in the initial design phase.
 
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