Developers Frustrated at Apple for Just One Day's Notice to Submit Apps Ahead of iOS 14 Release Today

gk4 said:
You don't know why? It's pretty simple.
1)They saw a situation where to parties were involved, Apple & literally anyone else in the world.
2)They then adopted their default position of accepting Apple is in the right, and trying to do the mental gymnastics on how the other party is in the wrong (this is usually accompanied by a healthy amount of being completely ignorant on the specific topic they're talking about).
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I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt :)
 
Cscottrun said:
Gotcha. Honestly, sounds like a change in deadline that many employees face at their jobs (not just developers). It sucks but it happens. I'm sure many devs will have to or have pulled overnighters. I know it has happened to me many times in my field (real estate).
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Yep. I think the distinction is that this is a deadline that may have only been a few hours, meanwhile, we didn't have the key piece of software required to plan ahead, and rigorous software testing can take days. So what we're left with is the difficult decision of either pulling an all-nighter with our testing and bug fixes, hoping this rush job doesn't hurt quality, or leaving our users in a lurch without the software they want on day one.

On top of this, the 16-ish-hour-window we had before release was even shorter than it seemed. Typically, Xcode takes a half hour to download, another half hour to unzip (yeah, I know), about 20 minutes to copy.... and some regions got the wrong Xcode build at first, so they spent an hour of time that would otherwise be spent testing and racing to get in line to upload using the first version of Xcode that allows App Store iOS 14 submissions downloading a version they immediately had to delete and re-install. 16 hours became 14 hours, and if you have a day job, that goes down further. It was an untenable challenge, and I'm worried the real people who could be hurt are consumers, if developers got too ambitious and released poorly tested software.
 
sjsharksfan12 said:
Ok, so I read more of the thread and it's a timing issue in terms of releasing updates via various builds. I still want someone to explain why we have a Beta process in the first place. The whole point of Beta is to test the IOS program for bugs, provide feedback, and start working on app updates while the beta process is in motion. Apple even says don't download this on your main phone because it might do damage to the main phone. Basically, from the day WWDC happened to now, developers had some sort of program for the new IOS update. I would think it's like writing a semester long paper for school. You get the assignment on day one, the teachers tells you when it's due, and unless you procrastinate, you are working on that paper the entire semester and the good students would try to get it done early so they don't need to worry about rushing it with a day or two left.
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Betas are useful, but they're not problem free. Simple apps can usually sail through the betas, update a few things, and be fine come release day, more complex apps cannot. Also newer betas can break things just as much as older betas.

To use your analogy, imagine you start the paper you mentioned, every two weeks your professor makes changes to what they want you to include in your paper. Some changes are little (like font size), other changes, not so much (like switching between citation formats, or even if they wanted a table of contents or not). You try and keep on top of these changes while you're working through your paper but they don't stop, every two weeks there's more changes.

In the past, this wasn't a huge deal because you would usually get a "freeze" date where the professor would give you their final round of changes and you had about 5 - 10 days to make sure your paper followed all those changes required before submitting it on the cut off date.

This year however is different, without warning the professor said "Here's the final round of changes, it's due tomorrow."

You basically have to stay up all night, making sure your paper has all those changes.

Software is much more complicated than a paper however. There are teams of people that coordinate a software releases and if someones app was broken during some of the later betas they not only have to find the bugs and fix them, but also do full regression testing to make sure those fixes didn't break something else.

Complicating matters is the fact that you can't submit an app to Apple without the GM seed, so if iOS 14 breaks someones app, they couldn't issue an update until yesterday at the earliest, and the approval process isn't instant, so someones app could be broken for iOS 14 early adopters and get trashed in the App Store by reviewers all because their fix is waiting in line to be approved by Apple.

In the past Apple sent out notices two weeks in advance to get your apps ready for submission. Everyone was expecting that and it didn't happen.
 
Mr. Dee said:
So what were all those betas for?
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The betas, if you want the real answer, is so that APPLE can put THEIR software on more devices and have devs and the public test iOS bugs and new features. It's actually only a secondary thing that it allows devs to start to update their apps for the new iOS version. And the betas usually have API's that are missing or very broken. Or they change from build to build.
 
Cscottrun said:
Well, if I am understanding this correctly...they did have months to get their apps ready to be submitted for updating, no? .... am I missing something?
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You're assuming Beta 1 is the exact same as the GM, and that changes made to the GM didn't cause a bunch of bugs for developers to have to fix in their own apps.
 
BGPL said:
Those saying it's not a big deal and "they had months" are obviously not developers. The OS can change significantly for an application based on beta and GM changes. It depends on the app obviously, some more than others. If you're taking advantage of the newest iOS features, it's going to be work between every build. As a developer you want to offer your updated app at the same time as the new iOS.

This isn't a big deal, but it shows two things:

1. Apple's annual iOS/MacOS major updates are proving to be too aggressive. Catalina was a plane crash that hasn't hit the ground yet. I would bet Big Sur will be more of the same.
2. Apple doesn't care about the developers. They care about earnings, nothing else.

It's a tough time to be a developer in the app store. Eventually it will bite Apple, but it could be another ten years.
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My biggest hope is Catalina was junk because more resources were dedicated to the massive Apple Silicon transition with Big Sur.... but I'm probably wrong.

I'd still love for them to fix it so my Mac doesn't launch every single App I own on reboot... seriously, there are complaints all over the place about the re-open windows on startup being super buggy it Catalina.... it even will play videos with audio that were open when something crashed while the login screen is up. Unacceptable
 
roar08 said:
Non-devs posting opinions in this thread === non-taxpaying voters.
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They will be affected when they got their shinny new iOS 14 with some critical app crashing.
And let's be real. Most inde-devs are not affecting by this too much. Our apps does not break when system updates like those billion-dollar companies' apps.

I just think this is a bad thing for apple as it breaks the user experience.
 
roar08 said:
Non-devs posting opinions in this thread === non-taxpaying voters.
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To be fair, there are some of us in here who are not devs but understand SDLC and think this is a ***** move by Apple.

Then there are a bunch of idiots defending Apple because they don't know better.
 
Very annoying because there were several things that have been busted for the majority of the beta period. We haven't even gotten a new version of Xcode in several weeks — wasn't even reliably build or test on physical devices with the tools they had out!

Who gives a toss. If your app can’t work after 8 betas worth of development when the GM was practically imminent, the app is probably garbage.
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Developers at Apple aren't only fixing problems and they don't fix all of the problems before the GM. Issues in Beta 7 may not exist in Beta 1. They are also finishing pieces of OS; adding, rewriting, and changing APIs; and introducing/changing bugs so you can't just be done, wipe your hands, and say "let the GM come to build and submit it without testing". It's unfortunate, but I can't make a great sidebar and UI if 6 out of those 8 betas have broken APIs and the last one introduced a regression that broke it again :(

Who gives a toss? I do, because I care about the things I put work into and providing to my users.
 
Mr. Dee said:
So what were all those betas for?
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Ask apple why they does not allow app submit using beta SDK.
We understand that but you better hear that reason from apple.

APPLEGO said:
Well, that is indeed unfortunate for developers and I deeply appreciate their hard workings in this process. However, as a consumer, I have a right to use and enjoy all the features the latest public release of system software (iOS/iPadOS 14 in this case) can offer. And at the same time, developers also have to make sure their applications to be optimized and work as expected under the most recent public release. I sympathize with developers for testing applications in such a short time frame and understand that Apple should take some or major responsibilities in this.

However, as a customer, I am not here to judge whose fault is for causing uncertainties in apps optimization/developing under new system. Actually, It is even not customers’ obligation to be involved between the 2 parties Apple and developers. I only know that customers are rightfully entitled to use apps in latest public release. If the latest system software works well but the apps fail to bring their promises, I will only uninstall those apps but not downgrade the system to “accommodate” developers’ incapability. If possible, I will even look for better and more optimized apps to replace those apps which perform miserably under the latest system software.

Remember, there are always better alternative in app market. Only by keeping updating apps with new features and developing in accordance with latest guidelines, developers can remain competitive. Best wishes to you.
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We can not. Because Apple does not allow us to submit anything using iOS14 SDK until yesterday.

There's no magic. Apps have to go over the review process before it could update on AppStore.

And you as a end user will suffer from this move by Apple. I also want my new feature for iOS 14 works day one as I prepared for it for several months.

But I can not and luckily my app does not crash on iOS 14 so I can wait.
 
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APPLEGO said:
Well, that is indeed unfortunate for developers and I deeply appreciate their hard workings in this process. However, as a consumer, I have a right to use and enjoy all the features the latest public release of system software (iOS/iPadOS 14 in this case) can offer. And at the same time, developers also have to make sure their applications to be optimized and work as expected under the most recent public release. I sympathize with developers for testing applications in such a short time frame and understand that Apple should take some or major responsibilities in this.

However, as a customer, I am not here to judge whose fault is for causing uncertainties in apps optimization/developing under new system. Actually, It is even not customers’ obligation to be involved between the 2 parties Apple and developers. I only know that customers are rightfully entitled to use apps in latest public release. If the latest system software works well but the apps fail to bring their promises, I will only uninstall those apps but not downgrade the system to “accommodate” developers’ incapability. If possible, I will even look for better and more optimized apps to replace those apps which perform miserably under the latest system software.

Remember, there are always better alternative in app market. Only by keeping updating apps with new features and developing in accordance with latest guidelines, developers can remain competitive. Best wishes to you.
Click to expand...

Being bold doesn't make you right.
As a consumer, you have what rights? This is the forum where everyone reminds us Apple is a benevolant dictator and you have no rights.

Beyond that, I suppose you have the right to install an OS that has the potential to break everything you do with it, yes
 
MikeZTM said:
Apple does not allow developer to submit anything using beta SDK.
The final SDK was released yesterday.

I already have a branch that works with beta SDK and iOS 14 with some new features.

So I need to build my app against final SDK and run test for it then submit it to Apple and hope their review system isn't overflowed by app updates and causing huge delay.

Just imagine if my App's current version with iOS 13 SDK crash on iOS 14.
It will keep crashing until Apple finished the review.

A lot of apps does crash this way. That's a bad image for apple and frustrating day or week for end user also.
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Thank you for answering informatively without being an arrogant jerk, like many of these other developers.

To the rest of you, ha ha ... get to work!!!
 
APPLEGO said:
Well, that is indeed unfortunate for developers and I deeply appreciate their hard workings in this process. However, as a consumer, I have a right to use and enjoy all the features the latest public release of system software (iOS/iPadOS 14 in this case) can offer. And at the same time, developers also have to make sure their applications to be optimized and work as expected under the most recent public release. I sympathize with developers for testing applications in such a short time frame and understand that Apple should take some or major responsibilities in this.

However, as a customer, I am not here to judge whose fault is for causing uncertainties in apps optimization/developing under new system. Actually, It is even not customers’ obligation to be involved between the 2 parties Apple and developers. I only know that customers are rightfully entitled to use apps in latest public release. If the latest system software works well but the apps fail to bring their promises, I will only uninstall those apps but not downgrade the system to “accommodate” developers’ incapability. If possible, I will even look for better and more optimized apps to replace those apps which perform miserably under the latest system software.

Remember, there are always better alternative in app market. Only by keeping updating apps with new features and developing in accordance with latest guidelines, developers can remain competitive. Best wishes to you.
Click to expand...

First let me unbold and make that font size a little more reasonable.

Here is a perfect example of someone making a completely uninformed and entitled reply. Have a nice and day and I hope you enjoy iOS 14.
 
APPLEGO said:
Well, that is indeed unfortunate for developers and I deeply appreciate their hard workings in this process. However, as a consumer, I have a right to use and enjoy all the features the latest public release of system software (iOS/iPadOS 14 in this case) can offer. And at the same time, developers also have to make sure their applications to be optimized and work as expected under the most recent public release. I sympathize with developers for testing applications in such a short time frame and understand that Apple should take some or major responsibilities in this.

However, as a customer, I am not here to judge whose fault is for causing uncertainties in apps optimization/developing under new system. Actually, It is even not customers’ obligation to be involved between the 2 parties Apple and developers. I only know that customers are rightfully entitled to use apps in latest public release. If the latest system software works well but the apps fail to bring their promises, I will only uninstall those apps but not downgrade the system to “accommodate” developers’ incapability. If possible, I will even look for better and more optimized apps to replace those apps which perform miserably under the latest system software.

Remember, there are always better alternative in app market. Only by keeping updating apps with new features and developing in accordance with latest guidelines, developers can remain competitive. Best wishes to you.
Click to expand...

You need to read more of the thread as you obviously aren't understanding what's happening here.

If I make my app compatible with iOS 14, and submit it within the less than 1 day I have been given - it still wont work with the new OS you update to on your phone because Apple's approval process means you likely won't get my fixed version of the app for several days.
 
APPLEGO said:
Well, that is indeed unfortunate for developers and I deeply appreciate their hard workings in this process. However, as a consumer, I have a right to use and enjoy all the features the latest public release of system software (iOS/iPadOS 14 in this case) can offer. And at the same time, developers also have to make sure their applications to be optimized and work as expected under the most recent public release. I sympathize with developers for testing applications in such a short time frame and understand that Apple should take some or major responsibilities in this.

However, as a customer, I am not here to judge whose fault is for causing uncertainties in apps optimization/developing under new system. Actually, It is even not customers’ obligation to be involved between the 2 parties Apple and developers. I only know that customers are rightfully entitled to use apps in latest public release. If the latest system software works well but the apps fail to bring their promises, I will only uninstall those apps but not downgrade the system to “accommodate” developers’ incapability. If possible, I will even look for better and more optimized apps to replace those apps which perform miserably under the latest system software.

Remember, there are always better alternative in app market. Only by keeping updating apps with new features and developing in accordance with latest guidelines, developers can remain competitive. Best wishes to you.
Click to expand...

This is the dumbest thing I've read in this thread, and that's saying something.
 
APPLEGO said:
Remember, there are always better alternative in app market. Only by keeping updating apps with new features and developing in accordance with latest guidelines, developers can remain competitive. Best wishes to you.
Click to expand...

The problem is that this was not possible to do until yesterday. Just because you know what's coming and you've been testing against betas doesn't mean when the release comes around that you won't have new problems suddenly, out of nowhere, because Apple makes mistakes just like the rest of us, and it's our responsibility to work around them so you get reliable software.
 
jonnyb098 said:
What exactly is one extra week going to do? Seriously. If your app wasnt ready by Beta 8 and 3 months of development thats on you. The GM is IDENTICAL to Beta 8.
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Really?
If so why did we get a GM v2? You know since GM 1 was already "IDENTICAL" to B8?

Hint... Cause (EVEN!) original GM broke stuff. And that's only one thing in the whole process.

Ignorance of some of you is astounding but what's even crazier is that you choose to voice it.
 
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