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Developers Must Share Phone Number and Address on EU App Store to Meet 'Trader' Requirement Starting in October
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Diamonds are small too. 👌
Why is it anyone's business? If they're selling crummy apps or are scam artists, the market will remove them because word will get around and nobody will buy their product.
I have no desire to give the people with guns and power (the government) more information than I absolutely have to.
What info do you have divulge?
You have no interest in knowing what company you're doing business with?
Great, up to you, but I like to know who I'm doing business with.
I note you mention company. A lot of apps on the App Store are created by indie devs, not companies.
Have you ever bought any apps on the iOS App Store that were likely from an indie app developer?
If so, why do you now need to know the home address and personal phone number of that developer?
You were okay using those apps previously (for the last 15 years), and could contact the developer using the Support URL that every app is required to provide, so why do you suddenly require more of the developer's personal info?
I don't have a company, and I have a bunch of apps on the App Store that have been there since Day One of the App Store and are still updated and checked to make sure they work on the latest versions of iOS and iPadOS. Three quarters of those apps have always been free - no cost to the user, lots of work for me.
Lots of massive companies dead-end their apps and leave paying customers in the lurch. I don't.
Also, are you honestly saying that if you don't have the developer's home address and phone number you wouldn't buy their app? Are you going to record their information before you buy their app for some point in the future when you need to get in touch with them about some issue with that app?
Apple already know this, don't they? Why should I be kept in the dark about who makes an app?
As stated before, it is not difficult, or expensive, to get a PO-box and/or cheap mobile plan if you don't want to list your home address/personal phone.
Also, in the EU, you can't just sell stuff commercially without registering a business. Up to a small sum you may get away with it, but you would quickly reach the limit and be required to register a business, or face legal problems.
And, when you register a business, that information becomes public anyways.
If you don't like this, don't list your app in the EU, problem solved!
As a matter of fact, I think it is illegal to sell stuff commercially in the EU as an individual, not just apps. It is just that apps have flown under the radar for many years.
It might be that Apple has managed to convince authorities that it is Apple that sells the apps, not the developers. But that is sorta splitting hairs.
As stated before, it is not difficult, or expensive, to get a PO-box and/or cheap mobile plan if you don't want to list your home address/personal phone.
Also, in the EU, you can't just sell stuff commercially without registering a business. Up to a small sum you may get away with it, but you would quickly reach the limit and be required to register a business, or face legal problems.
And, when you register a business, that information becomes public anyways.
If you don't like this, don't list your app in the EU, problem solved!
As a matter of fact, I think it is illegal to sell stuff commercially in the EU as an individual, not just apps. It is just that apps have flown under the radar for many years.
It might be that Apple has managed to convince authorities that it is Apple that sells the apps, not the developers. But that is sorta splitting hairs.
app users do not need to know the personal phone number or address of where they live BUT when there are app developers out there who have the intention of scamming app users and defrauding app users there needs to be protections in place for app users. Remember, an app developer can be anywhere in the world and make their app available to EU users but what happens if a scam app get's through the checking system and takes users money. The user complain to Apple and all Apple say is sorry we do not know who they are or where they are, all we can do is kick them out of the store. You will have to contact your payment provider to get your money back.
Now if the app developers details are known, EU users can contact various official government departments to complain and get them to start legal proceedings against the app developer.
This is why in the EU employers need to check that the people they employ are legally allowed to work in the country they are residing in. Banks are to check that when someone is opening a bank account that the person is a legitimate person because if they don't do those checks, those affected can sue due to the checks not being carried out.
Unfortunately this is how society works and has been doing so for generations, the small number of bad ones in society ruin it for the large number of good ones in society.
EU fans in DMA threads: developers should be allowed to sell their apps on random app stores and websites; Apple is lying when they say that will impact iOS safety and security
EU fans in this thread: the EU is morally just to force the doxxing of individual developers because developers are a bunch of scammers who can’t be trusted
EU fans in this thread: the EU is morally just to force the doxxing of individual developers because developers are a bunch of scammers who can’t be trusted
Sweden is a member of the EU so it's very much related. On one side we have GDPR and on the other we have the swedish constitution declaring everything public information. This requirement for the App Store will apply to Sweden as well as a EU country.
There are digital post boxes but all I've found includes your full name or business name in the address and yet again you can find the home address by a simple online public records search at no cost.
You aren't being kept in the dark. Every developer's name is displayed on each app's page. Every app includes a Support URL where you can get in touch with the developer.
The difference here is that, for whatever reason, you think knowing my personal phone number and home address is important to you.
You can't use a PO Box.
It is far too expensive to rent a virtual office.
Define "cheap" mobile plan. The cheapest I can see are:
- Pay Monthly = Three £7/m, O2 £18/m, EE £16/m, Vodafone £16/m
- Pay As You Go = All are £10
I rarely make a profit on my apps. Most years the income doesn't even cover the annual Developer Program Fee.
When one of my apps is purchased on the App Store, Apple sells it to the buyer, not me. Apple sorts out the payment processing and taxes, takes their cut and sends me the rest once a month. I don't know who's bought my app. I give the buyer a Support URL where they can contact me if they need to. This has worked for 15 years, but now, suddenly, you all want to know our personal details even though you haven't wanted them for years.
Besides, by selling via the App Store we don't need to handle the various tax systems and legal peculiarities of selling in each EU country, and the EU seem to accept that. They accept that Apple is selling the apps, and that Apple is capable of working out all the bits for us, but we now need to put ourselves up for being doxxed. And don't try and say that other businesses like Meta and Microsoft are happy to sell their apps and provide an address, because as I've explained a hundred times, those are not private details of one of their employees.
Anyway, this is kind of moot, as I've removed my apps from the EU countries.
I just wanted to say that some of you keep claiming it's really cheap to start a business, rent a business address, get a new phone line, etc. It's not. It's not what we signed up for, and putting out our private information for anyone - regardless of whether they've bought one of our apps or not - is not something we are willing to do.
So, congratulations! You're going to have fewer apps available in EU countries. And, when that next big app from an indie developer is released and it's not available in the EU because the guy who wrote it doesn't want to be doxxed, don't come whining to us.
It’s fascinating seeing the pro-EU / DMA crowd now twist themselves into pretzels trying to justify that is latest move by the EU is supposed to be good for both consumers and developers. It’s like they can’t admit that the EU commission may have legitimately screwed up in this regard.
Funny thing. The few times I needed support for an app, I was able to reach the developer via email (which is often located inside the support section of the app). A few of the developers are also active in the Macstories discord that I frequent as well.
Not once have I felt like I needed a working address because they likely live half the world away from me anyways.
But I guess this is one solution to there being too much competition in the App Store - force an exodus of developers who can’t / won’t comply. Congrats. Looks like the EU is even more ruthless than Apple when they want to.
This is possibly my favorite post of the year.
You conveniently didn't mention that Americans could ask for their info to be removed from the phone book.
Sure, only the good apps will be available. Enough to choose from anyway. 👌
We don't have phone books in the EU, at least in my country (since 2011). If a company passes your telephone number to another, without your consent, they can be fined, and by a government GDPR authority, and that fine will quite stiff.
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You’re wrong about that. There are many good indie apps. Some indie apps are even better than many apps made by the brand g companies.
Sure, but if the "indie" developer is soooo worried about the DMA, s/he can stay out.
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No as this public information is older than any eu law by at least 200 years. Your address, phone number and tax information and income is public information.
So it’s completely separate from Eu shenanigans. Eu have many faults, but this complaint is squarely a Swedish one.
And of course you can’t have a digital post box without your name or business, how else are you supposed to address it to a person or business?
More likely conveniently didn’t know, but how would I. I know where I am you could go ex-directory. But considering how fat a phone book used to be I don’t think many did, at least none of the people I phoned at random from the phonebook were ex-directory.
You're the one that brought up the phone book as an example. I just pointed out the flaw in that argument.
Anybody try to get through a Company's automated system when making a phone call about an issue? Who needs a phone number if a developer responds to an email in a timely manner?
But a business wouldn’t want to be ex-directory so your argument made no sense, app developers are a business if they sell their apps.
But why? What use is this info? They have a website? I have noticed that Gen Z is slower to figure out that you can Google things without having to ask Reddit, but still. Google. Find their website. CONTACT SUPPORT. ET VOILA!
Came here to say that I did the process of adding myself as a EU trader, and then I started getting tons of random spam calls...
FYI there are verifications on apple's side; verification code sent to phone number and document needed to prove address. So I just changed the phone number to a temporary skype number for now (that I will cancel), and I already have a coworking space address as I am self-employed.
FYI there are verifications on apple's side; verification code sent to phone number and document needed to prove address. So I just changed the phone number to a temporary skype number for now (that I will cancel), and I already have a coworking space address as I am self-employed.
Seems this may be a good thing for accountability. Many devs wanted more control and they got it. And now that this rule came down, they should have to comply. Seems it's good for everyone.
