Developers Must Share Phone Number and Address on EU App Store to Meet 'Trader' Requirement Starting in October

[contacos]

How do you identify where someone lives (e.g., for mail/package delivery) if there happens to be more than one person in an apartment building with the same name?

Funny you ask because this actually used to be the case in my building and my neighbors would often end up with each others mail. However, since mail / packages themselves show the full name and not just the last name, the neighbor would realize is at the latest there (unless they also happen to have the same first name) and you'd have to hope that your neighbor is honest enough to bring it to you or you would have to ring the neighbor and be like "sorry but I think my package was delivered to you according to my tracking notification"

 

[ric22]

"I have to have my name on the door bell" what???

Weirded me out when I moved to Germany... no appartment numbers and instead our names on the door bell. Individual rooms in the building are not marked in any way typically.

 

[SanderEvers]

Honestly this is to protect customers. (in the EU) Companies are required to have publicly available contact info when dealing with consumers. (for after sales, questions, etc.)

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Did you bother to read what I wrote? I'm not referring to "a legitimate company". I'm referring to an actual, individual person who posts an app for sale, perhaps as a hobby.

Yes I did. An actual person enacting in commerce is a business entity.

So if you sell your home made bread at Walmart or some local store, that’s a business entity. And your VAT number would be your social security number.

Every single individual person in EU have this. You can’t legally engage in commerce as a citizen. It needs to be a business as different laws apply.

Example you get all your sales tax back for business expenses. And consumer rights don’t apply to businesses.

 

[BaldiMac]

Honestly this is to protect customers. (in the EU) Companies are required to have publicly available contact info when dealing with consumers. (for after sales, questions, etc.)

Publicly available and published at point of sales are two very different things. Email/website is reasonable for customer support for small apps. Requiring the app store to maintain current address and phone number would also be reasonable in case the website/email contacts aren't responsive and for legal reasons.

But having to deal with phone support is an unnecessary burden for small developers. What good would it do for someone that only speaks German to call me if I don't speak German?

 

[DanTheMan827]

Strange. I thought people here WANTED Apple to cave in and comply to whatever the EU dictates, no matter what. 🤔

Apple fights back...people complain about it.
Apple complies...people complain about it.
Proof that you can't satisfy everyone!

Apple has to comply with local laws. Their malicious “compliance” with the DMA is from by complying… they just want to delay as long as possible.

The issue here isn’t with Apple, it’s with the EU itself requiring individuals to share their information publicly as a requirement to do business there

 

[SanderEvers]

Publicly available and published at point of sales are two very different things. Email/website is reasonable for customer support for small apps. Requiring the app store to maintain current address and phone number would also be reasonable in case the website/email contacts aren't responsive and for legal reasons.

But having to deal with phone support is an unnecessary burden for small developers.

True but remember, this is the EU. Which is run by people who grew up using phone books. They don't know what this new thing called a "website" is.

Okay, enough joking. This is because there are a lot of websites (of traders) that don't have any way to contact them (the traders). So they very much declared that there needs to be at least an address and a phone number available. For example, there have been issues when people tried to contact Facebook or other big companies for support. And rules need to apply to anyone who publicly sales stuff (apps, etc) in the EU. This is one of the reasons why they created the DSA.

 

[DanTheMan827]

I created an LLC for myself when I was in college. No lawyer or help needed and a one-time $40 filling fee.

That's all, and it's the same price today.

There’s a slight issue with that…

If you started as an individual and have an established app, you can’t move it to an LLC and still be part of the small business program.

Transferring ownership of an app in any way makes the entire thing ineligible and you now have to pay 30% to Apple regardless. It sucks

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Did you bother to read what I wrote? I'm not referring to "a legitimate company". I'm referring to an actual, individual person who posts an app for sale, perhaps as a hobby.

Let’s say your app corrupts my data or breaks something else? I will have no legal recourse with you as a private person.

Funny you ask because this actually used to be the case in my building and my neighbors would often end up with each others mail. However, since mail / packages themselves show the full name and not just the last name, the neighbor would realize is at the latest there (unless they also happen to have the same first name) and you'd have to hope that your neighbor is honest enough to bring it to you or you would have to ring the neighbor and be like "sorry but I think my package was delivered to you according to my tracking notification"

Are you sure you don’t have a numer up to the left on the door such as 1403 or 401 etc. The first number is the floor and the second tend to be the building and the rest tend to be is your adress number

 

[BaldiMac]

Yes I did. An actual person enacting in commerce is a business entity.

So if you sell your home made bread at Walmart or some local store, that’s a business entity. And your VAT number would be your social security number.

Every single individual person in EU have this. You can’t legally engage in commerce as a citizen. It needs to be a business as different laws apply.

Example you get all your sales tax back for business expenses. And consumer rights don’t apply to businesses.

In reality, they're still an actual person no matter how much you try and abstract that fact away.

 

[contacos]

Let’s say your app corrupts my data or breaks something else? I will have no legal recourse with you as a private person.

Are you sure you don’t have a numer up to the left on the door such as 1403 or 401 etc. The first number is the floor and the second tend to be the building and the rest tend to be is your adress number
View attachment 2406475

Nope! Never seen such a thing.

I mean in my contract the apartment has a number but this is towards the landlord. Its not public knowledge

 

[I7guy]

Meanwhile in the USA, Google's android app store is a monopoly ( https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/14/24220491/epic-google-android-app-store-monopoly-remedies-hearing ), if the bar is set so low, Apple's app store has got to be a monopoly.

Google lost and apple won. Stuff happens. We should be used to it.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

Where is Epic saying Apple is doing this wrong

 

[MilaM]

The requirement to publish a phone number is pretty silly, I admit. An e-mail address would be totally sufficient in my opinion.

The obligation to provide a business address on the other hand is nothing new. It's been a requirement for websites for decades in the EU. I'm suprised it wasn't enforced earlier in the context of app stores to be honest.

 

[arc of the universe]

I see this is a good thing. If you're going to sell me a product, of any sort, I should be able to contact you or have available recourse if there is an issue.

very interesting to see why such a reasonable post as this one gets such a lot of negative thumbs down.
must be a alot of app developers and general internet lurkers on this thread who think that the internet should be a way to cloak their identity.
of course (!) apple should be required to reveal full details about who owns these apps.

 

[krull1015]

Transparency is good but I think a physical address is too much. Would’ve a valid e-mail and phone number be sufficient…

 

[Sophisticatednut]

In reality, they're still an actual person no matter how much you try and abstract that fact away.

Sure, but if you’re a private person there’s no legal recourse for me as a customer, unless you’re doing it as a company.

And you the person and the info developer do not need to have the same information such as your private contact information and your business contact information.

Nope! Never seen such a thing.

I mean in my contract the apartment has a number but this is towards the landlord. Its not public knowledge

Well interest to send mail in Berlin then xD.

 

[user1234]

My wife is a small business owner (self-employed attorney with one employee), and her PO Box is $8 month. That is her legal business address.

Can't afford that, really?

In addition, at least in the US, you should be selling your apps under an LLC, otherwise your personal financial wellbeing and possessions would be in play if you were sued by a customer.

Meanwhile in Sweden PO boxes are only available to businesses, are close to $600 USD a year and the adress includes your business name which makes it easy to find your home address as everything is public information in Sweden.

The EU has GDPR but they also do this? Make up your minds EU politicians.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Why does any company deal with these morons?

 

[MilaM]

All this would not be an issue for hobbyists developers, if there was a way to download apps from say GitHub and just side-load them.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Transparency is good but I think a physical address is too much. Would’ve a valid e-mail and phone number be sufficient…

Well I think this is one time EU law and how businesses is done seem to have a very hard clash with how it’s done in let’s say the USA.

This is quite literally a non issue here considering it’s all public information

 

[BaldiMac]

very interesting to see why such a reasonable post as this one gets such a lot of negative thumbs down.
must be a alot of app developers and general internet lurkers on this thread who think that the internet should be a way to cloak their identity.
of course (!) apple should be required to reveal full details about who owns these apps.

Probably because its not reasonable for a small developers to provide phone support in multiple languages to anyone that browses their listing on an app store.

 

[MilaM]

Probably because its not reasonable for a small developers to provide phone support in multiple languages to anyone that browses their listing on an app store.

There is no requirement to provide phone support. You just have to provide a means to get in touch with you. A digital answering machine is enough to be compliant with the law.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Probably because its not reasonable for a small developers to provide phone support in multiple languages to anyone that browses their listing on an app store.

You’re not required to give phone support. It’s contact information.

Any business irrespective of size needs this.
If it’s a single employee (you yourself) or a million employees. The standard is all the same

 

[MilaM]

BTW, China has much more stringent regulations for foreign app developers. They require registration with local authorities. Which is not the case here in the EU.

Apple Adopts Tighter Chinese App Store Rules, Closing Foreign App Loophole

Apple has started requiring new apps to show proof of a Chinese government license in order to be listed on the China App Store, as the company joins...

www.macrumors.com