Developers Press BBC to Bring iPlayer to Apple TV by Building Their Own Proof of Concept App

[Benjamin Frost]

Apple fan boys I'm used to but a BBC fanboy - I like it.



Mostly agree - there are some great programmes but the level of utter drivel is on the increase - Mountain Goats (a Scottish sit com so bad I cried) and From Darkness (yet another check list based piece of crap - troubled cop with a past / an unsolved murder / did they shag / what about the kids / oh that senior cop seems dodgy / haunting music / staring at shoes a lot / needless long journeys). You also forgot that all the presenters are now bleeding heart apologists - if someone so much as farts on a live show the presenters are contractually obliged to halt whatever is being discussed to apologise in case anyone was offended - then it requires a continuity announcer at the end of the show to give a number in case anyone was affected by the fart. And don't start me on Radio presenters, nothing short of driving rusty meathooks through their craniums would shut some of them up - "thank you caller for getting halfway through this incredibly touching piece on domestic violence but I need to cut you off as there might be a wicket at the cricket that our listeners could not possible wait an extra ten seconds to hear about'

Yep for every 'Mighty Bush' there was a 'F*$k off I'm a Hairy Woman' and for every David Attenborough there's a Nicky Campbell

Colourfully put.

The BBC has always been a bastion of excellence, and still is to some extent, but in the past ten years, the liberal loonies have gained the upper hand. It saddens me that there is such a strong political agenda that imbues so much of the programming there now.

Reminds me of Tim Cook.

Change your user agent to iPad on your desktop browser - that forces html5 and no flash.

There is also a beta for html5 on some browsers you can try without user agent fudgery.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/entries/19d875b8-c966-465b-880a-e38c71900c4c

I've done that, but I find the html version doesn't work well in full screen on my iMac.

 

[GrumpyTrucker]

All this talk about the BBC and limited resources could be handled quite easily if they would allow the developers who've done this demo to develop it and put it on the store themselves. I have no doubt they won't allow such a thing, and yet it seems to me it would be the best of both worlds. BBC get the iPlayer on another device and they don't use any of their own resources to develop and support it. The downside I suppose is it would probably have to be a paid app if it were ever allowed - these guys have to eat - and I doubt it would sit well with the BBC having someone else make money from their content.

 

[macfacts]

I'm sure the reason for no iplayer app on appletv is because of a legal/licensing issue, not any programming/technical problem. Same reason Apple tv has been a hobby for so long, cause it is hard to get all the media companies to agree to deals. You guys think Apple or the BBC can't hire developers?

 

[MH01]

It took two developers 9 hours to code a prototype and the current iPlayer on iOS is going to share a large amount of source code with any hypothetical new ATV app.

The reason the BBC stated that there was no app currently wasn't because of a lack of resources (they have a full iOS dev team, for example) but because the ATV "only works with one device" (?? I do not know what they mean here - only one TV? Only one computer? Only one remote?) yet somehow the Chromecast wasn't subject to these restrictions.

The new Apple TV runs iOS so not supporting it is an active decision to avoid it, since if you have an app on the iPad (which they do), having an app on the Apple TV will be comparatively little work, especially a content consumption app like iPlayer.

Mate. This is a proof of concept hack. Chromecast is far more popular than ATV, smart move.

It's not about developing, it's about supporting going forward.

Also without knowing the backend of iplayer, please don't assume this is comparatively little work.

 

[paulgarb]

I'm sure the reason for no iplayer app on appletv is because of a legal/licensing issue, not any programming/technical problem. Same reason Apple tv has been a hobby for so long, cause it is hard to get all the media companies to agree to deals. You guys think Apple or the BBC can't hire developers?

If it is a legal/licensing then what specifically is the difference between content playing via apps on the iPhone/iPad (or via AirPlay on the TV) and content playing via an app on the Apple TV? It is, as has been said before, the BBC's iPlayer guy not understanding what the Apple TV is (believe me I've corresponded with him and he does not get it) added to the fact that he quite probably (based on evidence) actively dislikes Apple

 

[joe-h2o]

Mate. This is a proof of concept hack. Chromecast is far more popular than ATV, smart move.

It's not about developing, it's about supporting going forward.

Also without knowing the backend of iplayer, please don't assume this is comparatively little work.

It's a proof of concept hack that took 9 hours to do with no inside knowledge of the iPlayer backend or the BBC's systems.

Of course it's comparatively little work. All they need is the UI. They already have a system in place for delivering streams and downloads to a range of different devices and the (new) Apple TV runs iOS and has the same hardware as a platform that they already support.

You're trying to invent problems that don't exist here to disprove my point. They have a team that supports iOS, it is no stretch to also support the Apple TV, which is an iOS device. The Apple TV supports all of the resolutions and formats that the BBC already deliver to the devices they already support.

Their stated mission is to ensure that digital content is available to as wide a range of people in the UK as possible.

There's no technical reason they can't support the new Apple TV.

 

[MH01]

It's a proof of concept hack that took 9 hours to do with no inside knowledge of the iPlayer backend or the BBC's systems.

Of course it's comparatively little work. All they need is the UI. They already have a system in place for delivering streams and downloads to a range of different devices and the (new) Apple TV runs iOS and has the same hardware as a platform that they already support.

You're trying to invent problems that don't exist here to disprove my point. They have a team that supports iOS, it is no stretch to also support the Apple TV, which is an iOS device. The Apple TV supports all of the resolutions and formats that the BBC already deliver to the devices they already support.

Their stated mission is to ensure that digital content is available to as wide a range of people in the UK as possible.

There's no technical reason they can't support the new Apple TV.

I'm very aware of the team. It's a business decision and ATV is not high priority, nor do its numbers justify it becoming a priority , sorry, but it's a fact.

Don't take it out of BBC, blame Apple for allowing ATV to be nothing more than a hobby for so long.

 

[joe-h2o]

I'm very aware of the team. It's a business decision and ATV is not high priority, nor do its numbers justify it becoming a priority , sorry, but it's a fact.

Don't take it out of BBC, blame Apple for allowing ATV to be nothing more than a hobby for so long.

Now you're changing your argument. Before it was that it was too much effort to do it, now you're saying that the effort is no problem and that it's a business decision because the old ATV was not seriously promoted enough despite being sold by a giant electronics retailer, when the new ATV has a different OS and a different development model (virtually identical to iOS development that they are already doing).

It is absolutely the BBC's decision to not support the platform. There's no blame to be placed on Apple for treating a product as a hobby item. It clearly sold well enough that a lot of people asked for it to be supported. It's hardly like the ATV came from some fly by night kickstarter campaign. But either way, the new ATV's development model is different. If you can make an iPad app, you have already made an Apple TV app. They're going to have to actively do more work to *not* support the new ATV and there's no reason not to support it.

 

[OllyW]

Now you're changing your argument. Before it was that it was too much effort to do it, now you're saying that the effort is no problem and that it's a business decision because the old ATV was not seriously promoted enough despite being sold by a giant electronics retailer, when the new ATV has a different OS and a different development model (virtually identical to iOS development that they are already doing).

It is absolutely the BBC's decision to not support the platform. There's no blame to be placed on Apple for treating a product as a hobby item. It clearly sold well enough that a lot of people asked for it to be supported. It's hardly like the ATV came from some fly by night kickstarter campaign. But either way, the new ATV's development model is different. If you can make an iPad app, you have already made an Apple TV app. They're going to have to actively do more work to *not* support the new ATV and there's no reason not to support it.

I suppose it depends on the penetration of Apple TV into the homes of UK viewers. We don't actually know how many they have sold in the UK, if it's only a couple of hundred thousand it might not be deemed worthwhile but if it numbers into the millions then it would be difficult for the BBC to justify their reluctance.

I would understand if the sales up to now were relatively low in the UK though because most of the features added by Apple since it's release have been for the US market only with just a few new channels of interest to British viewers. The BBC might just be waiting to see how the new Apple TV 4 takes off before committing to developing their own native app.

 

[MH01]

Now you're changing your argument. Before it was that it was too much effort to do it, now you're saying that the effort is no problem and that it's a business decision because the old ATV was not seriously promoted enough despite being sold by a giant electronics retailer, when the new ATV has a different OS and a different development model (virtually identical to iOS development that they are already doing).

It is absolutely the BBC's decision to not support the platform. There's no blame to be placed on Apple for treating a product as a hobby item. It clearly sold well enough that a lot of people asked for it to be supported. It's hardly like the ATV came from some fly by night kickstarter campaign. But either way, the new ATV's development model is different. If you can make an iPad app, you have already made an Apple TV app. They're going to have to actively do more work to *not* support the new ATV and there's no reason not to support it.

I still stand by the fact the effort / on going support is not justified for the numbers .

Getting something live is the easy part, on going support is not. Each update of iOS needs app updates, in my view the support is not worth it.

It maybe in the future if ATV becomes more popular in UK.

 

[LastLine]

I'm sorry but reading through this thread baffles me.

Now just to preface this I'm not saying that BBC are working on an Apple TV app, but surely people realise that them saying 'no information' 'no plans' 'nothing to share' is PR speak for 'we don't want to talk about anything to do with it publicly'?

 

[ecopod]

I'm sorry but reading through this thread baffles me.

Now just to preface this I'm not saying that BBC are working on an Apple TV app, but surely people realise that them saying 'no information' 'no plans' 'nothing to share' is PR speak for 'we don't want to talk about anything to do with it publicly'?

Whoa there - exactly how long do you think threads would be if everyone took that level thinking approach to innocuous press statements/releases etc.

Don't you get the importance of increasingly pedantic posts just so that you can win some meaningless argument with someone you've never met (and never will) just so you can bask in the warm glow of a quasi moral victory. Where would we be without the opportunity to post our thoughts as representative of every living being or have the chance to state our outlandish theories as fact.

C'mon now play the game.

 

[joe-h2o]

Whoa there - exactly how long do you think threads would be if everyone took that level thinking approach to innocuous press statements/releases etc.

Don't you get the importance of increasingly pedantic posts just so that you can win some meaningless argument with someone you've never met (and never will) just so you can bask in the warm glow of a quasi moral victory. Where would we be without the opportunity to post our thoughts as representative of every living being or have the chance to state our outlandish theories as fact.

C'mon now play the game.

What outlandish theories are being presented? I linked to a direct quote from the BBC on why they were not supporting or working on an app for the ATV.

They have stated on the record that they have no plans to support it, and the evidence given for why was weak.

 

[ecopod]

What outlandish theories are being presented? I linked to a direct quote from the BBC on why they were not supporting or working on an app for the ATV.

They have stated on the record that they have no plans to support it, and the evidence given for why was weak.

Good one, very funny. Absolutely love the irony of the last seven words of your post.

You sir/madam are a comic genius.

 

[joe-h2o]

Good one, very funny. Absolutely love the irony of the last seven words of your post.

You sir/madam are a comic genius.

How is it funny?

Here's the BBC's exact quote:

"One of the reasons we decided to support Chromecast was that Apple TV currently works only with Apple devices. Chromecast has SDKs available for a number of different platforms including iOS, Android, and the Chrome browser for laptop and desktop computers."

Ok, so the reason given is weak because the Apple TV doesn't "only work with Apple devices" - it works with anything that runs iTunes (Windows and Mac) and with any TV that has an HDMI port.

Like I said, weak sauce. The real reason is presumably that they just didn't want to develop it because whoever was in charge of the decision decided against it (for whatever reason), but the actual PR answer made no sense at all.

 

[bigchrisfgb]

Colourfully put.

The BBC has always been a bastion of excellence, and still is to some extent, but in the past ten years, the liberal loonies have gained the upper hand. It saddens me that there is such a strong political agenda that imbues so much of the programming there now.

Reminds me of Tim Cook.



I've done that, but I find the html version doesn't work well in full screen on my iMac.

Recent BBC 3 documentaries infuriate me. They go and try and find problem that aren't high on the agenda in order to create one. Yes it's nice we live in a fairly liberal country on the UK, but to go to the most strict countries and start having a go at their society and making it into a problem is not good documentaries. It's shame, BBC 3 when it first started had good shows and good documentaries, now though it's just cringeworthy. It's a good things it's being scrapped in my opinion.
That in itself raises a fairly good point though. If BBC 3 is going soley on line, then surely a deviated app for it on TV set up boxes would be a good thing? Maybe it's a possible future app and opens up the BBC to being more creative for the Apple TV.

 

[Smackos]

the developers seem not to understand the issues in streaming and the resultant addressable market, or maybe they understand fully and are just trying to garner publicity with this stunt

much bbc content is only licensed for the UK. agreements with other broadcasters, rights holders etc. severely limit what can be distributed to other countries, even some bbc free to air content is not available on iplayer in UK for just these reasons, much 'bbc' content is either owned or restricted by other parties, even inclusion of stock photos in backdrops in 'bbc' programmes can limit distribution outside the UK

iplayer is already available on mass market set top boxes (youview for instance), and smart tv units for the UK market, that's almost the entire addressable market

no idea what % of UK households have apple tv but no other stb/stv able to access iplayer, but i'd bet it isn't a big number

unless/until the bbc can resolve how to gain rights to stream globally and collect the revenue to cover associated licensing costs, which i suspect will be around the time hell freezes over, it'd be a very poor use of resources to spend time/money on an app with such limited market

Sorry but none of that is the issue here. The BBC have always stated that they have no plans to put the iplayer app on the Apple TV (new or old model), but they literally are on every other standalone platform I can think of. Kindle fire? Yes. Chromecast? Yes. Roku? Yes. Android Tv? Yes. Newly released very niche product Nvidia Shield? Yes. Xbox? Yes. Playstation? Yes. Even old WD tv players from last generation have iplayer on them. Also the excuse that BBC can't put the app on the Apple TV because of licenses need to be global is not the issue, nor ever has been. Apple TV's apps are regional. If you log in via a UK iTunes account then you are only given UK licensed apps, log in via a US account and you are only given U.S licensed apps. Very straightforward. Also, Apple TV "as a small market" is actually still the largest user base platform in the UK, so that doesn't wash either. Simply the answers we are getting are not good enough.

 

[Smackos]

AirPlay. Problem solved.

iplayer on iOS is only available in SD, and I do mean in pretty low bitrate SD at that. So airplaying to anything over a smaller sized screen is pretty pointless anyway. If the iOS app was like say Amazon Prime or Netflix and was in HD to AirPlay then at least that'd mitigate the issue, but alas no.

 

[Smackos]

You don't know their reasons. Maybe Apple rejected the app? Maybe Apple TV is not selling enough in the UK to justify such app? Why is the BBC automatically at fault here?

No, the BBC stated that they would not put an Iplayer app on the Apple TV because to quote..

"One of the reasons we decided to support Chromecast was that Apple TV currently works only with Apple devices. Chromecast has SDKs available for a number of different platforms including iOS, Android, and the Chrome browser for laptop and desktop computers"

Which is a VERY poor excuse given that they've put iplayer on every home console and streaming box for years. How the PlayStation 4 iplayer app serves anything other PlayStation 4 owners etc in a way that the Apple TV doesn't serve Apple TV users is beyond me.

Sales? Interesting point.. Or at least it would be if the BBC hadn't already given the go ahead for an Nvidia Shield Iplayer app before the box had even been released here. Sales of Apple TV can't be doing too badly either for Amazon to feel the need to ban the sales of them (and Chromecast) to better push their own Fire Tv boxes in the market instead. So no, sales is probably not the answer here either.

 

[colinwil]

No, the BBC stated that they would not put an Iplayer app on the Apple TV because to quote..

"One of the reasons we decided to support Chromecast was that Apple TV currently works only with Apple devices. Chromecast has SDKs available for a number of different platforms including iOS, Android, and the Chrome browser for laptop and desktop computers"

Which is a VERY poor excuse given that they've put iplayer on every home console and streaming box for years. How the PlayStation 4 iplayer app serves anything other PlayStation 4 owners etc in a way that the Apple TV doesn't serve Apple TV users is beyond me.

Sales? Interesting point.. Or at least it would be if the BBC hadn't already given the go ahead for an Nvidia Shield Iplayer app before the box had even been released here. Sales of Apple TV can't be doing too badly either for Amazon to feel the need to ban the sales of them (and Chromecast) to better push their own Fire Tv boxes in the market instead. So no, sales is probably not the answer here either.

I see that the BBC has today announced on their website that they will be developing an app for the new Apple TV. They cite Auntie Player and this Mac rumors thread too.

Good news!

 

[kemperman]

 

[uid15]

Working well on Xcode 7.1 on the 1080p Simulator

Helps being in England too!

 

[The Game 161]

good

why it wasn't on launch who knows

 

[satcomer]

good

why it wasn't on launch who knows

Because they probably have someone in marketing saying don't develope for Apple because it receiving Ad money from Samsung!

 

[joe-h2o]

Because they probably have someone in marketing saying don't develope for Apple because it receiving Ad money from Samsung!

The BBC does not receive ad money from any company. There are no commercials on BBC products or services. It doesn't receive any money from commercial sources - there are no product placements or payments from companies at all.

If a company or product is accidentally mentioned in such a way that makes it look like an endorsement they go out of their way to mention that other competing products are also available.