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maya said:
Major factors that Apple is going with USB 2.0 is:

1. USB 2.0 is backwards compatible and can work with Mac and PC, no need to have 2 products one with FireWire and the other USB 2.0.

...

4. You can achieve the same results with USB 2.0 when compared to FireWire, with the exception of booting.

And perhaps most importantly:
5. Firewire requires a hardware controller in every device in the chain. Since space is cramped in the nano, it may not have been possible to fit the controller in there. This is the reason USB PCI upgrade cards are typically cheaper than Firewire cards, as more operations need to be performed on the card themselves instead of in software.

In my opinion, Firewire was probably nixed to save physical space.
 
Gimzotoy said:
And perhaps most importantly:
5. Firewire requires a hardware controller in every device in the chain. Since space is cramped in the nano, it may not have been possible to fit the controller in there. This is the reason USB PCI upgrade cards are typically cheaper than Firewire cards, as more operations need to be performed on the card themselves instead of in software.

In my opinion, Firewire was probably nixed to save physical space.

I never thought about that when thinking about the nano. I was a bit peeved that it didn't support Firewire at all, but now that it's put that way, I get it a bit more. And I'm beginning to prefer USB over Firewire now-a-days, especially on my iBook since Apple decided to cripple it with only one Firewire port.
 
Gimzotoy said:
In my opinion, Firewire was probably nixed to save physical space.

As you eluded to, I don't think this was the only reason, but definitely one of the major ones. I think Apple's philosophy now is to move away from Firewire with the iPods in general (as it's already been happening), but in the case of the nano specifically, they wouldn't have had a choice regardless due to its size. ;)
 
As posted on Ars Technica:
The scroll wheel and LCD attach via some Foxcomm connectors whereas the battery is soldered directly to to the board

Among the impressive engineering feats of the nano, one has to still ask: Why let form take away from function?
All we need is another iPod battery that is not user replaceable. :rolleyes:

I understand that lack of Firewire suppport. Actually, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the only people who use Firewire hardcore photographers and monogamous Mac users. I mean, outside of the niche of Apple, I have only used USB 2.0. I think most people don't even know Firewire exists.
 
Form and Function - iPod nano packaging

In case you are interested, I've posted pics of the iPod packaging and contents in the process of opening. The box is about the size of the Shuffle box. One difference is a new opaque sealed envelope for the accessories (instead of the previous packaging with a transparent side). The nanoPod is even smaller than I expected, and it's even a hair smaller than the photo on the outside of the box.

Check out-> http://www.nanoPod.org/
for pictures.

Blair

Editor, nanoPod.org :D
 
destructive testing review

pretty cool review on ArsTechnica where they destroy a black one in the name of science:

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/nano.ars/

in short, if you throw it up 40' in the air and it lands on concrete, it will no longer function. if you drop it 9' or run over it with your car or even drop it while running, cycling or at 50mph in your car, it will still play music! how frickin cool is that?!? :eek:
 
Yoyodyne said:
Among the impressive engineering feats of the nano, one has to still ask: Why let form take away from function?
All we need is another iPod battery that is not user replaceable. :rolleyes:

I understand that lack of Firewire suppport. Actually, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the only people who use Firewire hardcore photographers and monogamous Mac users. I mean, outside of the niche of Apple, I have only used USB 2.0. I think most people don't even know Firewire exists.

Nearly all DV camcorders use FireWire (on Sonys it's called "iLink"). Some scientific equipment uses it. I started using FireWire before I got my first Mac (back in 2001).
 
maya said:
4. You can achieve the same results with USB 2.0 when compared to FireWire, with the exception of booting.
Most any PC can boot from a USB floppy or CD/DVD drive.

Many PCs and servers can boot from USB thumb drives (these have replaced the floppy for firmware updates in many places).

Booting could be done for USB disks, it just takes some software in the BIOS and OS.

Target disk mode might be harder - since the "master" USB device (the one running target disk mode) would need to be a "slave" to the other system. (In USB the computer is a "master" - in target disk mode one of these "masters" (the one running target disk mode) would have to act like a slave.)

One other 1394-only feature would be TCP/IP over 1394 - again the master-slave issue gets in the way....
 
bankshot said:
Oh, if only Jonathan Ive were as obsessive about the listening experience as he is about the physical design. Then maybe the iPod would finally conquer that annoying little gap between tracks. I can dream, can't I? :rolleyes:

</broken record>

exactly what i was thinking when i read it :p
 
maya said:
Major factors that Apple is going with USB 2.0 is:

1. USB 2.0 is backwards compatible and can work with Mac and PC, no need to have 2 products one with FireWire and the other USB 2.0.

2. Apple is moving to Intel based chips, thus getting an insane licensing deal on the use of USB 2.0. Cheaper too.

3. More USB 2.0 Consumer products on the market today than FireWire.

4. You can achieve the same results with USB 2.0 when compared to FireWire, with the exception of booting.

There you have it. :)
Do not the newer iPods work with both USB and Firewire?
 
Gimzotoy said:
And perhaps most importantly:
5. Firewire requires a hardware controller in every device in the chain. Since space is cramped in the nano, it may not have been possible to fit the controller in there. This is the reason USB PCI upgrade cards are typically cheaper than Firewire cards, as more operations need to be performed on the card themselves instead of in software.

In my opinion, Firewire was probably nixed to save physical space.
Agreed. Not because of compatibility issues.
 
I fail to see why people can on one hand recognize the genius of an iPod and on the other not see anything special about Apple Computers. I guess it may end up being a slow process at first, before momentum is gained.
 
this only took nine months prety impressive. Also, very intersting that very few people new about this.
 
Xtremehkr said:
I fail to see why people can on one hand recognize the genius of an iPod and on the other not see anything special about Apple Computers. I guess it may end up being a slow process at first, before momentum is gained.

people expect a mp3 player to just work, but not so much a computer.
 
Xtremehkr said:
I fail to see why people can on one hand recognize the genius of an iPod and on the other not see anything special about Apple Computers. I guess it may end up being a slow process at first, before momentum is gained.

I've wondered that for years.
 
maybe fail to see with both hands?

Xtremehkr said:
I fail to see why people can on one hand recognize the genius of an iPod...
Genius?

The Nano breaks no new ground - it does less than its predecessors (in general), has less memory (than most), and costs more than some

It's smaller than Ipods with more memory, and larger than iPods with less.

The major advance seems to be the end of white plastic (although Apple still needs to get rid of the white plastic ear buds).

And even the sacred Apple UI seems to be violating a number of patents and prior art....

It's a cute new Ipod - but "genius", "revolutionary" and similar superlatives are a stretch.
_____________________________

I wonder how many new Ipod owners the Nano is going to get. Most of the people here seem to have picked up Nanos as their 4th (or 4th and 5th) Ipod....
 
Gimzotoy said:
And perhaps most importantly:
5. Firewire requires a hardware controller in every device in the chain. Since space is cramped in the nano, it may not have been possible to fit the controller in there. This is the reason USB PCI upgrade cards are typically cheaper than Firewire cards, as more operations need to be performed on the card themselves instead of in software.

In my opinion, Firewire was probably nixed to save physical space.

Agreed. They nixed it because it ultimately wasn't necessary. USB2 is just as practical as FW400 in this application. When are you ever going to notice your Nano not sustaining 400mb/s transfers with the exception of the very first time you upload songs? ;) I'll take a Nano thats USB2 only over one thats just *that* much bigger and thicker for FW400 support.
 
AidenShaw said:
Genius?

The Nano breaks no new ground - it does less than its predecessors (in general), has less memory (than most), and costs more than some

It's smaller than Ipods with more memory, and larger than iPods with less.

The major advance seems to be the end of white plastic (although Apple still needs to get rid of the white plastic ear buds).

And even the sacred Apple UI seems to be violating a number of patents and prior art....

It's a cute new Ipod - but "genius", "revolutionary" and similar superlatives are a stretch.
_____________________________

I wonder how many new Ipod owners the Nano is going to get. Most of the people here seem to have picked up Nanos as their 4th (or 4th and 5th) Ipod....

I should mention that I mean the iPod range as a whole, while including this nice addition to the lineup.

Well, this is the first high end flash memory MP3 player. Not only does it offer more storage space than most flash memory MP3 players, but it adds capabilities that have not been offered in a flash memory MP3 players before, except for a radio function. I don't think that it is possible to be smaller than iPods that offer less memory, so I am going to disregard that point, especially since it has a color display, and can do pictures and album covers.

The feature that I think is most left out of MP3 player comparisons is the inclusion of iTunes. Other MP3 players may be cheaper, but they do not offer instant access to a program as good as iTunes. Not only can iTunes store the music you have, and the music you buy or otherwise download, but it also has a great built in Podcast function. iTunes is the software complement that competing companies cannot offer yet, and has the widest selection of music to boot.

Whether or not it uses White or Black plastic, it is in the form that has become the standard for MP3 players. Not only that, but it is very durable as well. The Nano is small, but making a product too small could also be a detriment. I mean, you don't want to have to use tweezers to access the buttons. When it comes to size and usability, there is a happy medium, and I think that the Nano has successfully met that medium.

I wasn't meaning the Nano specifically when I said genius. I was referring to what Apple did as far as making the MP3 player a product that is incredibly popular. The Nano builds upon that. I liked the Mini, I own one, but the Nano is no small improvement upon the mini. Making such leaps in quality is head and shoulders above what a lot of companies tend to do.

The iPod revolutionized the MP3 player market. Not only that, but Apple continues to work on improving what they already offer. The Nano is head and shoulders above the Mini Pod, which is admirable.

You may disagree, but the MP3 player market was not what it is now before the iPod was introduced. The Nano may not be as groundbreaking, but for essentially being the 2nd gen MiniPod, its impressive. I hope you understand the context in which I said what I said now.

When looking at what other manufacturers have to offer, including software and quality, I think that the Nano furthers the reasons why the iPod holds the position it does in the MP3 market.

The other point I was making, concerns the computers Apple makes, which are just as good. But, for whatever reasons, not as acclaimed as the iPod has been. This is a fallacy I hope is corrected through people associating iPods with Apple Computer.

Apple has been doing better lately, but can do a lot better still, considering what they have to offer.
 
cbr600rr said:
people expect a mp3 player to just work, but not so much a computer.

How wrong they are, people should think different, and expect more. Challenging Engineers, and software developers, it's beneficial in the long run.
 
Yoyodyne said:
Among the impressive engineering feats of the nano, one has to still ask: Why let form take away from function?
All we need is another iPod battery that is not user replaceable. :rolleyes:

I understand that lack of Firewire suppport. Actually, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the only people who use Firewire hardcore photographers and monogamous Mac users. I mean, outside of the niche of Apple, I have only used USB 2.0. I think most people don't even know Firewire exists.

umm...no?
Sony has offered Firewire for extremely long time now on all their Camcorders so not just apple doing it.

i think that alot of things will eventually switch to firewire. even maybe Video feeds
 
There is a free SJ Boom in there:

“What’s really been great for us is the iPod has been a chance to apply Apple’s incredibly innovative engineering in an area where we don’t have a 5%-operating-system-market-share glass ceiling,” Jobs said. “And look at what’s happened. That same innovation, that same engineering, that same talent applied where we don’t run up against the fact that Microsoft got this monopoly, and boom! We have 75% market share.”

Sorry, had to share.
 
go look at one...and good luck not buying

rwmoore said:
Too bad Apple forgot to include the ability to sync music via firewire or I'd buy one today!!

I said the same thing about the Firewire...then I held and played with one today at my local Apple store...needless to say it's charging right now.
 
Yoyodyne said:
I think most people don't even know Firewire exists.

...and this is not a valid reason to not using it. most people don't know macs exist, too, and there's still a reason for apple to keep making them.

firewire is superior to usb when it comes to real-time streaming. as in audio/video content creation or moving large amounts of data from one storage device to another. key word here is REAL-TIME. apple isn't going to abandon firewire, but it seems that from now on firewire is for us professionals and you regular people have chosen usb instead. god knows why.

anyway, it hurts nobody if it takes few minutes longer to update ipods, so firewire is not absolutely necessary. yes, it would have been nice, but people surely live without, too. i'm hoping apple could put it in there in some future revision, 'cause it'd be nice, but i also know it will work nicely without it. however, i keep using my 4G firewire-equipped ipod as i also use it as a very portable hard drive.
 
tny said:
Nearly all DV camcorders use FireWire (on Sonys it's called "iLink"). Some scientific equipment uses it. I started using FireWire before I got my first Mac (back in 2001).

Something I didn't realise until a few weeks ago is that iLink is a slightly re-engineered Firewire spec. With the Apple Firewire (400) being 6-pin [carrying power with it] and iLink being 4-pin and as a consequence it is much, much smaller. I was under the assumption that Sony had done its usual trick of simply 'rebranding' something that already existed!

Many domestic camcorders utilise the 4-pin connector where as prosumer upwards use the 6-pin variant [certainly the ones I've used/seen do at least].
 
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