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Did Apple Sabotage iCab & Atomic Web & other alt browsers...??

fhall1 said:
Care to share the secret? I haven't discovered it yet.
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Sure, enter the URL of the page you want to bookmark. Let it load and press the little star next to the url. It will turn golden and then you can find it in bookmarks inbox.

Kinda strange way, but it works okay when you know how.

But have anyone found a way to browse full screen on iPad? It works okay on iPhone (browse in landscape mode turns full screen on automatically), but not on iPad?
 
To me, the most recent updates to Atomic Web & iCab are now unusable if you want a great browsing experience. The scrolling is not smooth even on lean, well-coded sites like Macrumors.

The browser Sleipnir (sp?—never going to remember how to spell that one!) is cool in a gimmicky-sort-of-way, but its rendering of tabs takes up too much space and cannot be hidden. Virtually no features where Atomic & iCab have hundreds. Smooth scrolling for now, I bet it will not last.

I will not update Terra, as it is the only full strength browsere with smooth scrolling i currnly own.

Safari is fast, but I NEED TABS!

Oh please, Apple, give Safari some tabs in iOS 5, please....:)
 
I noticed the issue and it is frustrating as I don't understand Apple's stance on allowing 3rd party browsers but restricting how they go about the business.
The thing is though, in normal use, I don't really notice is it as I am busy reading the content of the page and not trying to scroll the length of large page quickly. Is it really such a big issue? I'm using Atomic and choppiness is there if you wipe down through a full page quickly but otherwise it has no adverse impact on me.
 
Donka said:
I noticed the issue and it is frustrating as I don't understand Apple's stance on allowing 3rd party browsers but restricting how they go about the business.
The thing is though, in normal use, I don't really notice is it as I am busy reading the content of the page and not trying to scroll the length of large page quickly. Is it really such a big issue? I'm using Atomic and choppiness is there if you wipe down through a full page quickly but otherwise it has no adverse impact on me.
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I agree. I use Atomic and if it gets jerky, I scroll down slower. 1 trick, if you are on a long page and need to scroll up, just tap the clock (time) and you will fly up, very fast.
 
I noticed one anoying thing with atomic, every time I switch tabs it reloads them again, like safari.
 
I noticed today in a totally different app, only in Belgium, its a tv guide and a way to program your digital recorder. Well the smooth scrolling is gone here too and its only scrolling text for tv guide! I really start regretting having bought an Ipad2. This is so unacceptable, especially that this issue wasn't present when i bought the ipad2. Instead of having fun I'm annoying myself on this jerky scrolling, where will it end?


Ps : the app is Yelo and this is not a browser, there was no update lately !
 
Has anybody become aware if these draconian restrictions hampering our experience are in part due to ios5 around the corner where all will be well again. Slowly I'm noticing stutter in many other apps that have web based content, e.g dropbox, previously flipboard, etc, etc.

This is slowly putting me off more and more from the iPad experience. There is no reason for glitch ridden scrolling if its not necessary. The smoothness is the biggest selling point of the platform for me. If this is not ratified in ios5 then this needs to be elevated to front page news on prominent sites.

Ios5 is available to devs...any comments?
 
I'm using ios5 beta, with safari tabbing. Works as expected, nice and smooth though I prefer Icabs way, maybe because I'm used to it? I don't know but it feels more natural when holding down a kink, the open in new tab link was so close to your finger position, with safari it's further away, a d sometimes the popup box appears doesn't appear in the same place every time
 
These restrictions aren't as 'draconian' as they sound. There's a few issues here from the sound of it:

1. Apple don't allow "full browsers" on the app store. Put simply, browsers have to use webkit (which also powers safari) underneath, but they can add a custom skin. This is apple's way of managing security on the phone. Browsers are heavily exposed to the wild west that is the internet, if they have a hole somewhere, it puts the device at risk, and Apple can't fix it. The dev would have to fix it, which may or may not happen.

2. Even using webkit, there's a bunch of special considerations for a browser. Because of that, devs have to use a different back-end for loading pages, which is slower than safari. Running the 'full fat' version would need additional security measures for the app from what I understand.

3. Scrolling isn't system-wide slow, it just seems to affect web browsing views. Devs sometimes use these to layout complex text easily in non-browser apps, so you'll see jerky scrolling there too (it's affected a couple of my apps).

4. The jerky scrolling is probably a bug in the OS, I can't see why this wouldn't be improved in an OS update. Maybe it'll be fixed in iOS5, who knows?

5. Using private APIs is a bad idea. They're private for a reason - usually the reason is that they will change. When they change, any apps that use them tend to break. Do you want apps that are very likely to break at some point in the future?
 
psonice said:
These restrictions aren't as 'draconian' as they sound. There's a few issues here from the sound of it:

1. Apple don't allow "full browsers" on the app store. Put simply, browsers have to use webkit (which also powers safari) underneath, but they can add a custom skin. This is apple's way of managing security on the phone. Browsers are heavily exposed to the wild west that is the internet, if they have a hole somewhere, it puts the device at risk, and Apple can't fix it. The dev would have to fix it, which may or may not happen.

2. Even using webkit, there's a bunch of special considerations for a browser. Because of that, devs have to use a different back-end for loading pages, which is slower than safari. Running the 'full fat' version would need additional security measures for the app from what I understand.

3. Scrolling isn't system-wide slow, it just seems to affect web browsing views. Devs sometimes use these to layout complex text easily in non-browser apps, so you'll see jerky scrolling there too (it's affected a couple of my apps).

4. The jerky scrolling is probably a bug in the OS, I can't see why this wouldn't be improved in an OS update. Maybe it'll be fixed in iOS5, who knows?

5. Using private APIs is a bad idea. They're private for a reason - usually the reason is that they will change. When they change, any apps that use them tend to break. Do you want apps that are very likely to break at some point in the future?
Click to expand...

IMHO, this post is full of "apoligist," and also incorrect and over-exaggerated.

This is all about pulling all the users back to Safari (the actual app). And this tactic will work. As soon as Safari has real tabs, and if Atomic, Icab are still purposefully gimped (when they were not before, for over a year and across multiple iOS updates) I will switch to Safari.
 
psonice said:
5. Using private APIs is a bad idea. They're private for a reason - usually the reason is that they will change. When they change, any apps that use them tend to break. Do you want apps that are very likely to break at some point in the future?
Click to expand...

But they are broken today.
 
doug in albq said:
IMHO, this post is full of "apoligist," and also incorrect and over-exaggerated.

This is all about pulling all the users back to Safari (the actual app). And this tactic will work. As soon as Safari has real tabs, and if Atomic, Icab are still purposefully gimped (when they were not before, for over a year and across multiple iOS updates) I will switch to Safari.
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IMHO, I feel like...after reading this entire thread, it's actually YOU that's "incorrect...or at the very least "over exaggerated" with your consistent comments against those that actually lay out some very REAL and TRUE reasoning with obviously a helluva lot more knowledge than either you or I when it comes to programming apps for iOS. I actually use every browser available on my iPhone 4 and iPad 2s....I'm kind of a browser junky. Maybe my problem is that I never have to scroll "REALLY FAST" all the way down OR up on a heavily image based web page. Not sure who really needs to do this. But I've been a user since iPad 1 launch day...and iPad2 the same...as well, I've owned every iPhone since release. I've never noticed anything but continued improvement of alternative browser options on iOS. Huge fan of both Atomic and iCab (the latter is 80% of my usage)...not a fan of mobile Safari...and I gotta be honest. As anal as I consider myself with my browsers, I never, EVER noticed this issue until I made my way through this whole thread.

Honestly...to the OP, you truly seem to be the only one really fanning the fire of this thread. Others have shown videos that show little if any effect this issue has had on scrolling....and I honestly think this is hugely and completely BLOWN WAY out of proportion. And it's disappointing to see someone like yourself...with such a problem responding to obvious smart and intelligent responses to your questions on your issues. It's obvious you've had no reasonable argument for why this fella is an "apologist" "incorrect" or embellishing..."over exaggerating"...when he's obviously a programmer with inside knowledge of APIs and the way the software and ecosystem works.

Do you?

Sorry man.

J
 
Akdj, thanks for your input.

I have actually have had a working relationship with the developers of both iCab and Atomic, as well as about 40+ other independent iOS developers.

And yes, this issue does feel like it is my own personal crusade! Average people seem to not notice much these days, and I feel a bit of a need to focus and expand on this issue.
 
If my last post was a bit 'apologist', it's because I've been on 'both sides of the fence' so to speak, and I can understand apple's position.

They could certainly handle situations like this better, and I'd absolutely like to see better alternative browsers on the app store. It's not likely to happen though, because they've taken the decision to make iOS as stable and secure as possible, so we (as end users) have that great experience we enjoy so much. Alternative browsers, flash, private API usage - these all go against that decision.

Doug: it seems to me that if apple fix the problems with their web view, this whole issue goes away. Maybe pressuring apple to do that would be the best way forward? Get lots of people to file bug reports :)
 
psonice said:
If my last post was a bit 'apologist', it's because I've been on 'both sides of the fence' so to speak, and I can understand apple's position.

They could certainly handle situations like this better, and I'd absolutely like to see better alternative browsers on the app store. It's not likely to happen though, because they've taken the decision to make iOS as stable and secure as possible, so we (as end users) have that great experience we enjoy so much. Alternative browsers, flash, private API usage - these all go against that decision.

Doug: it seems to me that if apple fix the problems with their web view, this whole issue goes away. Maybe pressuring apple to do that would be the best way forward? Get lots of people to file bug reports :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for that sensible post. I totally agree with all you just said.

I think the alt browser phenomena on iOS was birthed from the inadequate, under-featured original Safari. Specifically two key features were missing from it—tabbed browsing and full-screen. There were other missing features that were less important, like adblock and all the other features browsers like Atomic Web and iCab have. But tabbed-browsing was the key feature I, and many others, wanted.

Apple is smart. they were not going to pack a mobile browser with features when—a few years back now—the devices themselves were being pushed to the limits of the hardware specs and the entire mobile OS was in its true infancy, as was peoples' exposure and understanding of these new systems.

Everything has now matured, including Mobile Safari, hence the changes.

I think Atomic and iCab were gimped for the same reason that there will never be a Firefox browser in the App Store....

It is not a big deal, and I am not trying to call Apple the "bad guy," but things are what they are.
 
Readdlemate said:
Hi guys, yes, Terra browser is available on the AppStore.
http://itunes.apple.com/app/terra-web-browser-tabs-full/id394704159?mt=8

Truth be told, without private API it became a little bit slower (in terms of scrolling) on big websites. But we've tried our best to minimize that...

Also, we've added Twitter and Facebook integration.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

Have you tried it in iOS 5? Any improvement? They seem to have improved performance for home screen web apps, hopefully that extends to webviews too.
 
KINetics said:
Has anyone tried the updated Terra browser? Did it lose it's smooth scrolling?
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It is exactly as slow as iCab & Atomic Web, now. We all knew this day was coming for Terra. It is still a good browser if feature-poor when compared to icab & Atomic.

Oddly, Slepnir (sp?) browser updated today also, but its scrlling on long pages is strangly better than it is on Terra, Atomic & iCab. However, too many other strange UI elements and functions make that funny-named browser less than optimal.

iOS 5 and a tabbed Safari with smooth scrolling...I see this as my future on the iPad
 
The day of reckoning has come, Slepnir has available app store update to 1.3. I'm not touching it till someone dares confirm if it's been crippled like all the others. Slepnir is by far the most user friendly tablet browser by a country mile, and I cannot lose this one to Apples stupidity. Help!
 
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