Did I spend twice as much over a Windows Notebook on a disposable piece of eye candy?

[jbachandouris]

Those of you responding seem to be ignoring an important point: the 2011 MBP are prone to failure due to the GPU and it SHOULD be a recall. That is OP's real issue here. Length of life is secondary to the fact that this known issue has been ignored by Apple.

 

[Skylitfly]

I'm not the original poster, just so you know.

Fine, sorry for confusing you two.

Yes, this is the sentiment that is endlessly repeated almost every time somebody reports a disappointment with an Apple product. A mob assembles to try to shift the blame back on the user. They should have done this, they should have done that, it couldn't possibly be Apple's fault etc.

No, you're not getting my point. OP's argument and ranting doesn't make any sense. He clearly stated that because he bought 4000$ MacBook he expected it to last longer. So to turn it upside down he would have been OK if he just bought 1500$ MacBook and it failed. I'm just stating that more expensive setups doesn't get any kind of special treatments. They come from same assembly lines, assembled by same workers. Therefore the 4000$ MacBook has just as high chances to fail as 1500$ MacBook and the customer should be aware of this.

As has already been explained, Apple already guarantees it for a year, and there's nothing stopping them from expanding that guarantee.

There is. Business. And business will remain business even if you don't like it.

Yes, you are arguing for a culture of mediocrity, and you don't even realize you are doing it.

Nope, wrong again. I myself would love if someone could make 100% failure free electronics that will have guaranteed life time of... let's say 7 years for example. That would be fantastic. But people make mistakes, even in Apple's factories and engineering teams. Therefore no one will guarantee and tell you 100% if your electronics will fail after X years or Y years. Things happen.

And just to mention, in this case by awareness of customer I don't mean that he shouldn't care, but he shouldn't rant either. Because his rant makes it look like he isn't aware of how companies manufacture their products.

If they don't ever offer you AppleCare for free, it will likely be because people like yourself make a career out of arguing against your own interest.

No, it's because of business. And business will remain business.

Again, you don't even know who you're talking to, so why are we listening? Ok, you got me there, I am debunked.

I'm sorry for confusing you two. As I already said above.

 

[RainCityMacFan]

Those of you responding seem to be ignoring an important point: the 2011 MBP are prone to failure due to the GPU and it SHOULD be a recall. That is OP's real issue here. Length of life is secondary to the fact that this known issue has been ignored by Apple.

I second this. The OP nor I would really care if this was a fluke at 3~3.5 years. But it's clearly a widespread issue with threads going 20pg on Macrumors and up to 400pg (multiple threads too) on Apple Discussion Forums. There's a FB group and a subreddit about it as well. It's quite ridiculous.

 

[Freyqq]

Look for example on this report: http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/SquareTrade_laptop_reliability_1109.pdf

They show that laptops will fail by the third year with probability of 20% This is the industry average. There is virtually no difference between cheap and expense laptops (as expected). The 1% or so of 2011 MBP users which experience GPU failures are well within the statistical fluctuation.

Study was in 2009, so that means they were testing 2006 laptops. I wonder how it would look now that almost all Apple products use SSDs. Hard drives tend to be the weakest link on computers.

 

[MagicBoy]

Study was in 2009, so that means they were testing 2006 laptops. I wonder how it would look now that almost all Apple products use SSDs. Hard drives tend to be the weakest link on computers.

Agreed. Aside from batteries it's usually the mechanical parts - HDDs, Optical drives and fans that fail within 3 or 4 years. Unless there's an underlying problem with the design or manufacture the solid state circuits are fine for many more.

 

[Puonti]

The kind of hardware faults that hit the OP are very unfortunate. Unless you're buying an older product you won't have historical data to base an educated guess on as to how reliable you can expect the product to be as designed (random failures are a different thing entirely).

Apple is in a great financial position to cover all cases related to known flaws like this and I think they should – for the sake of customer satisfaction – by offering a reasonable flat rate repair even out of warranty or if that is not an option, a replacement product. The end product is Apple's offering to their customers; component quality issues are between Apple and their suppliers.

That said, on a separate note I also think there's something to be said for reasonable spending. If you're a professional it's reasonable to spend the kind of money that increases your productivity and you can easily make back from your work before the warranty runs out or it's time to upgrade; in other words your work pays (you or your employer) for each iteration of the tool.

For those who don't make money with the product it's a case of what you really need and how much disposable income you have. When I played EVE Online the best piece of advice I got was "Never fly anything you can't instantly replace" and it applies here too – for most of us even better than in a virtual playground, since we're talking about real money and real life (for some people EVE Online is very much a real life investment in time and money, but I won't go there).

The point is that you shouldn't buy a product you can't replace out of pocket with something that meets your immediate needs if none of the financial safety nets associated with that product apply for whatever reason. It's unlikely that you're going to have to pay the product's price all over again should something fail (over a reasonable life expectancy for the product), but having that money set aside or otherwise available when needed goes a long way to ease your mind when things go wrong.

I loved this computer and it served me well.

I hope you can say the same about your next computer! I think that's one thing Apple does really, really well and others could learn a lot from them; hopefully Apple will do all they can to guarantee that's the feeling their customers are left with at the end of their products' useful lives.

 

[macjunk(ie)]

well....if i pay 4k for a laptop, I would expect it to be treated differently...else why am I paying 4k for it in the first place? Why is it normal to expect a 4k laptop to fail within 3 years ? Yeah I know the chassis of the MBP is thin and heat eventually gets to it....If that is the case, Apple needs to rework their design and give its customers reliability over eye-candy! If they don't, then they should give free Applecare because they are selling you a product they know will crap out on you earlier than usual cause of a "flawed" design.

I am an Apple fan...really like their software and loathe going back to Windows...really do. But the fact of the matter is...Apple's reliability leaves a lot to be desired. They just can't command the prices they do with this kind of reliability on offer.

As an aside...just to give an example of how it is going downhill for me on my marriage with Apple: my iPhone 5S has crashed on me more number of times than my Note 3 and HTC One together! Never did have an issue with stability on the 5 or even the 4S but this 5S is teaching Android a thing or two about crashing and hanging

 

[neteng101]

I do expect a premium machine to last according to its pricetag.

That's where you went wrong - complex engineering and machinery can and does fail more often, than simple run of the mill basic stuff.

You can expect a Ferrari or BMW to likely require more maintenance and spend more time in the shop per mile travelled vs. a run of the mill Accord/Camry. Its not about build quality, but complexity of the design and packaging that can lead to some failures.

The best approach to expensive machinery is to pay for usage, and replace them... plan on changing your Mac every 2-3 years with AppleCare, and you won't ever get stuck with a huge repair bill. Same thing with a BMW, lease it and use it for 3 years, then get another.

 

[reco2011]

That's where you went wrong - complex engineering and machinery can and does fail more often, than simple run of the mill basic stuff.

Is it so wrong? Professionals pay extra for professional grade quality. Professional carpenters and mechanics spend more money on higher end tools because they're of better quality. Photographers spend more money on higher end camera bodies and lenses. Is it unreasonable for someone buying a high end computer to feel the same?

Along with that I can't tell you how many times I've heard a Mac advocate tell PC owners Macs are of better quality and therefore the price is worth it. Apparently that's not the case.

 

[capathy21]

As an aside...just to give an example of how it is going downhill for me on my marriage with Apple: my iPhone 5S has crashed on me more number of times than my Note 3 and HTC One together! Never did have an issue with stability on the 5 or even the 4S but this 5S is teaching Android a thing or two about crashing and hanging

You need to reset your iphone or exchange it due to being defective. I have also used and owned the Note 3 and HTC One and the iPhone 5S is much smoother, never hangs or lags, and has much better battery life than either of those two Android's.

 

[neteng101]

Along with that I can't tell you how many times I've heard a Mac advocate tell PC owners Macs are of better quality and therefore the price is worth it. Apparently that's not the case.

You're confusing quality vs. durability... Macs are quality tools that produce superb results, but they're not built to be Panasonic Toughbooks, or even ThinkPads where you can just go pouring coffee all over it and expect it to still work after that.

Cameras, shop tools, etc, all can still fail and need replacement, but you pay top dollar because when they're working, they're consistently producing results that a professional needs.

 

[drnebulous]

I've never understood this 'macs are not pc's, they're not even a computer, they are a macintosh' thing. There isn't much difference to be honest between a really good pc and a mac. A really good pc will have the same GPU, CPU, HDD (maybe better as apple ships with toshiba HDD's which are crap). The only difference is the motherboard and fans. You can buy fantastic motherboards for non apple laptops and even better fans which concentrate on CFM over noise. In fact, you can built a computer yourself with better components with better air flow. However, putting OS X in a custom build isn't easy or stable, and OS X is clearly better than windows for many things. Linux is just as good but lacks software supports and seamlessness. When you buy an apple computer, you're not just buying the computer. You're buying an ecosystem which rarely fails. Everything is built by engineers to work together. Sometimes this can be limiting, but if you need to get work done you can always depend on a mac. I don't mean simple work like spreadsheets, I mean audio production, video design etc. For example:


Logic Pro by apple built for OS X > OS X by apple built for Apple motherboard etc... Obviously it has a bit more depth than this, but that's the general idea.

But and the end of the day, I do wish apple computers would stop overheating, however, SMC fan control sorts that out.


The reason I use mac is because I hate windows (especially 8), linux software support is crap, and I like OS X. I also really like the design of apple computers, so all in all it suits me.


Why is everybody is this forum so hostile? The OP as been ripped of by apple. It is a disgrace that this has happened. I hate it when people defend and refuse to find faults that a obvious in their brand, life, religion etc...

PSU on Powermac G4 MDD = FAIL
Logic Board on eMac G4 1.25 = FAIL
iMac G3 air flow = FAIL
Powermac G5 logic board = FAIL
iMac G5 logic board = FAIL
iPhone 4 antenna = FAIL

and there are loads more. My iPod Classic hard drive has died after 1 year. Technology is still crap.

Apple isn't perfect whatsoever, in fact, it's a stupid company - just less stupid than others in other ways. It hates accepting that a product has a fault. And for the money you SHOULD expect PERFECTION.

Can I just ask you a question - did it have an SSD in?

 

[reco2011]

You're confusing quality vs. durability... Macs are quality tools that produce superb results, but they're not built to be Panasonic Toughbooks, or even ThinkPads where you can just go pouring coffee all over it and expect it to still work after that.

Cameras, shop tools, etc, all can still fail and need replacement, but you pay top dollar because when they're working, they're consistently producing results that a professional needs.

I am doing no such thing. Durability results from quality.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Study was in 2009, so that means they were testing 2006 laptops. I wonder how it would look now that almost all Apple products use SSDs. Hard drives tend to be the weakest link on computers.

But Apple doesn't make their own hard drives, they use off the shelf ones just like Dell, Toshiba, and Lenovo. Hard drives failure rates should be consistent across brands.

 

[drnebulous]

But Apple doesn't make their own hard drives, they use off the shelf ones just like Dell, Toshiba, and Lenovo. Hard drives failure rates should be consistent across brands.

No, apples hard drives are the worst. When I get an apple computer the first thing a do is rip out the crappy toshiba and but a WD black inside.

----------

the 2011 MBP are prone to failure due to the GPU

this known issue has been ignored by Apple.

Typical.

Classic.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

No, apples hard drives are the worst. When I get an apple computer the first thing a do is rip out the crappy toshiba and but a WD black inside.

Well yes, but no OEM's include WD Blacks

(AFAIK)

 

[Dekard]

How do you spend $4k on a Macbook? The current top of the line model is only $3000 with a 1TB SSD and 16GB RAM.

They call it 'bleeding edge' for a reason. If you want to be safe always get the safest bet. Always getting the latest and greatest costs in upfront cost and that's why it costs more.

I feel bad for your loss but 3-4 years for a laptop is pretty good.

 

[UBS28]

You're confusing quality vs. durability... Macs are quality tools that produce superb results, but they're not built to be Panasonic Toughbooks, or even ThinkPads where you can just go pouring coffee all over it and expect it to still work after that.

Cameras, shop tools, etc, all can still fail and need replacement, but you pay top dollar because when they're working, they're consistently producing results that a professional needs.

When spending $4k on a laptop, you expect better warranty for it. The latest Samsung SSD 850 Pro has 10 year warranty. I'm amazed how Apple only offers 1 year warranty at their premium prices considering most components has many years of warranty.

 

[capathy21]

When spending $4k on a laptop, you expect better warranty for it. The latest Samsung SSD 850 Pro has 10 year warranty. I'm amazed how Apple only offers 1 year warranty at their premium prices considering most components has many years of warranty.

Mac's are competitively priced when you compare apples to apples (no pun intended). If you actually find a Windows machine that matches a specific Mac pound for pound, the Windows machine will almost always be at least as expensive, if not more.

Apple cannot go offering 7-10 year warranties on their machines. That is a terrible idea from a business perspective. It would essentially give their customers free reign to mistreat their machines because they know they would get it replaced anytime within the warranty.

We know what we are buying when we buy a machine. I could have picked a 4 or 5 hundred dollar Windows machine but I wanted a Mac. I knew that it is made with the same type of computer components as other machines and that those may fail over time. I knew that the warranty is 1 year and if I choose to extend that warranty, I can purchase Apple Care. Apple's warranty program and Apple Care option far outweighs anything the competition offers.

I have a mid to low end Mac in the scheme of their offerings(1,000 dollars). If I decide to add Apple Care I will have the machine covered for 3 full years from purchase date. Would I be pissed if something happens to where my computer becomes a paperweight right after my Apple Care warranty expires? Sure, but I also know it's a computer and that I cannot really expect a computer to last more than 3 maybe 4 years before problems start.

Had I had the funds and the need for a more powerful machine (let's say 2,500 dollars or so), my expectations for the life of the machine would not be higher than they currently are. I would simply expect that machine to perform at a higher level than the 1,000 dollar machine for same amount of time (3 maybe 4 years).

So yes it sucks that the OP's machine is useless after less than 4 years, but spending 1,000 or 4,000 on it wouldn't and shouldn't be any indicator of how long the machine lasts.

 

[Meister]

The reason I use mac is because I hate windows (especially 8), linux software support is crap, and I like OS X. I also really like the design of apple computers, so all in all it suits me.

Why is everybody is this forum so hostile?
Apple isn't perfect whatsoever, in fact, it's a stupid company - just less stupid than others in other ways. It hates accepting that a product has a fault. And for the money you SHOULD expect PERFECTION.

I also think is the lesser evil.

Not everyone is hostile. I think the OP should demand help him out.

Nevertheless there is some lessons to be learned here:

1. You always need to insure super costy portable devices. Not doing this is nuts.

2. Nothing is perfect.

3. Buy what you need now. Spending extra on future proofing is not smart.

 

[MrX8503]

Do I expect Apple to just replace my machine months after the warranty has expired? No, I don’t think so. But this is a manufacturing issue.The video card dying in 2011 MacBook Pro is a well documented issue, one that Apple has thus far ignored. I thought that I might be better taken care of in person, instead it was suggested that maybe I buy a new machine. We have financing options to reduce the impact of the cost. I suppose that’ll help when I have to get it repaired in three years too.

Did you have an NVIDIA GPU? ALL NVIDIA GPUs failed, not just Apple's. There was a widespread recall for it.

 

[priitv8]

Did you have an NVIDIA GPU? ALL NVIDIA GPUs failed, not just Apple's. There was a widespread recall for it.

IMHO nVidia problems peaked with early 2008 Pros (pre-Unibody). GT8600 GPU.
Those 2011 machines had ATI graphics, AFAIK.

 

[MagicBoy]

IMHO nVidia problems peaked with early 2008 Pros (pre-Unibody). GT8600 GPU.
Those 2011 machines had ATI graphics, AFAIK.

AMD by that point, they'd been bought out.

 

[Quu]

You're not alone Op. The 9600GT GPU in my 2009 MBP broke too. It failed after my Apple Care ran out and I'm not paying for it to be replaced. I'm using an application that makes the laptop run on the 9400m integrated graphics so I can keep using it, but its so slow compared to the 9600GT.

In my opinion Apple should replace any notebook that has a premature GPU failure and I feel that should be 5 years. They have had GPU issues with every notebook from 2008 to 2011 and it's about time they stepped up and sorted it out for those affected.

 

[UBS28]

Mac's are competitively priced when you compare apples to apples (no pun intended). If you actually find a Windows machine that matches a specific Mac pound for pound, the Windows machine will almost always be at least as expensive, if not more.

Apple cannot go offering 7-10 year warranties on their machines. That is a terrible idea from a business perspective. It would essentially give their customers free reign to mistreat their machines because they know they would get it replaced anytime within the warranty.

We know what we are buying when we buy a machine. I could have picked a 4 or 5 hundred dollar Windows machine but I wanted a Mac. I knew that it is made with the same type of computer components as other machines and that those may fail over time. I knew that the warranty is 1 year and if I choose to extend that warranty, I can purchase Apple Care. Apple's warranty program and Apple Care option far outweighs anything the competition offers.

I have a mid to low end Mac in the scheme of their offerings(1,000 dollars). If I decide to add Apple Care I will have the machine covered for 3 full years from purchase date. Would I be pissed if something happens to where my computer becomes a paperweight right after my Apple Care warranty expires? Sure, but I also know it's a computer and that I cannot really expect a computer to last more than 3 maybe 4 years before problems start.

Had I had the funds and the need for a more powerful machine (let's say 2,500 dollars or so), my expectations for the life of the machine would not be higher than they currently are. I would simply expect that machine to perform at a higher level than the 1,000 dollar machine for same amount of time (3 maybe 4 years).

So yes it sucks that the OP's machine is useless after less than 4 years, but spending 1,000 or 4,000 on it wouldn't and shouldn't be any indicator of how long the machine lasts.

If the warranty of the components offer 5+ years warranty from the manufacturers (such as Samsung which even gives 10 years warranty on their flagship SSD's), but Apple only gives 1 year, then it's good business of Apple yes charging people money for new components which should be free in the first place.