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how much is your electric bill?

Not enough to make a difference beyond a cent or two per movie. Idle disks draw little power.

Although, I suppose if I took my entire electric bill and averaged it out per movie and disregarded everything else in my house that uses power, then it might raise the per movie cost by a dollar or two a month. But that wouldn't be very accurate towards figuring the true cost of movie storage.

And if we're arguing electricity, then you have to compare that to the amount of electricity it takes to spin the Blu-Ray player each time you watch a physical disk. And then compare both of those figures to the cost of electricity for all your internet equipment if you are downloading and/or streaming from iTunes.

But that does bring up another question about that $7 per movie figure. Is that per month, per year, or amortized over the estimated period that you might actually want to watch the movie (~20 years?).
 
Anyway, Apple is pretty much my backup service for the videos I buy from there. BDs are the backups for the old discs.
As I said earlier I am done with ripping and have switched to just buying iTunes HD. But, my real concern is that if a Movie is discontinued on iTunes you are no longer able to re-download it. So for me I do keep a copy on one of my computers. But at this point it is not that large of a collection. I think Apple / Content Providers should be required to keep the movie on iTunes once it is sold to at least 1 person.
 
Western Digital started selling 6TB hard drive last month. But currently they are only available to companies that are associated with servers, particularly Cloud service providers.

I suspect they will be available to the public next year, but I would expect a $300-$400 price, at minimum. We can only hope it brings down the cost of the 3 & 4TB drives. Though at that premium I doubt it.

The price of electricity is negligible. It would be about the same as having a 75 watt lightbulb running all the time....less depending on the computer. Hard drives barely use any power....it's the CPU,memory and video card that will use the most power.

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I also lived during the Circuit City / DIVX fiasco of the mid 90's. That was a worst case scenario, but it taught me to never trust the right to my content to a business.

I also feel the same way about DRM on video games. I collect old game consoles and I can still play 30 or even 40 year old games on consoles. I fear that will not be the case for games as we move forward. Once the server shuts down that's it.
 
I originally wanted to get all Blu-Ray discs. I didn't want iTunes or other digital versions because the quality was inferior. I wanted the best picture and audio quality available so I started buying Blu-Ray discs.

Time passed and I got frustrated with all the forced previews and such taking upwards of 15-20 minutes in some cases before you can begin watching your movie. We would rent movies form iTunes and I loved the convenience of starting the movie almost instantly. The video/audio quality differences weren't enough to outweigh the convenience. So I started relegating only the "best" titles to Blu-Ray. Others we might purchase in iTunes. If we got a good deal on a DVD (kid's movies for example), we'd just get the DVD and I'd quickly rip it and put it in iTunes. Quality was less of a concern over price and convenience.

Lately, however, we have found that the cost of Blu-Ray has dramatically dropped and in many cases, we can get a Blu-Ray/DVD/Digital copy of a movie for less than what it would cost to purchase just the iTunes movie. This seemed like the best of all options, until we hit the dreaded UV only digital copy. I want ALL my movies in iTunes, even if I occasionally pull out the Blu-Ray for certain movies.

That leads us to this recent Black Friday. With a good deal on a BD-ROM drive, and the proliferation of that horrible UV digital copy garbage, I'm now back full circle to buying Blu-Ray's for everything. I rip them into iTunes for all our portable devices and Apple TVs and keep the Blu-Ray on hand in case I want the best theater experience possible in my living room.

I now get the best of all options, excepting the time it takes to rip. AND I don't have to worry about the iTunes DRM crap which has bit us before where iTunes won't let us watch the movies we've paid for.
 
Vudu is pretty good. on my TV with no audio receiver or separate speakers the vudu HDX sounds better than itunes HD


I originally wanted to get all Blu-Ray discs. I didn't want iTunes or other digital versions because the quality was inferior. I wanted the best picture and audio quality available so I started buying Blu-Ray discs.

Time passed and I got frustrated with all the forced previews and such taking upwards of 15-20 minutes in some cases before you can begin watching your movie. We would rent movies form iTunes and I loved the convenience of starting the movie almost instantly. The video/audio quality differences weren't enough to outweigh the convenience. So I started relegating only the "best" titles to Blu-Ray. Others we might purchase in iTunes. If we got a good deal on a DVD (kid's movies for example), we'd just get the DVD and I'd quickly rip it and put it in iTunes. Quality was less of a concern over price and convenience.

Lately, however, we have found that the cost of Blu-Ray has dramatically dropped and in many cases, we can get a Blu-Ray/DVD/Digital copy of a movie for less than what it would cost to purchase just the iTunes movie. This seemed like the best of all options, until we hit the dreaded UV only digital copy. I want ALL my movies in iTunes, even if I occasionally pull out the Blu-Ray for certain movies.

That leads us to this recent Black Friday. With a good deal on a BD-ROM drive, and the proliferation of that horrible UV digital copy garbage, I'm now back full circle to buying Blu-Ray's for everything. I rip them into iTunes for all our portable devices and Apple TVs and keep the Blu-Ray on hand in case I want the best theater experience possible in my living room.

I now get the best of all options, excepting the time it takes to rip. AND I don't have to worry about the iTunes DRM crap which has bit us before where iTunes won't let us watch the movies we've paid for.
 
Lately, however, we have found that the cost of Blu-Ray has dramatically dropped and in many cases, we can get a Blu-Ray/DVD/Digital copy of a movie for less than what it would cost to purchase just the iTunes movie. This seemed like the best of all options, until we hit the dreaded UV only digital copy. I want ALL my movies in iTunes, even if I occasionally pull out the Blu-Ray for certain movies.

Agreed. For reasons I don't understand often the blu-ray + digital copy is cheaper than an itunes purchase. This is the best option at least when the digital copy is in fact itunes hd. Blu-ray for best experience on our home theater setup and itunes hd in the cloud for convenience and accessibility on other TV's with apple tv and ios. Visual difference is hard to discern even on a high end 59" plasma but audio clearly better on blu-ray. Otherwise my collection is a mix between itunes purchases and ripped DVD's and blu-rays. I have an old macbook pro relegated to an itunes server for apple tv's and ios devices. Would be nice if everything was the same for simplicity but optimum setup is a moving target and will continue to be as technology progresses. Hopefully one day cloud content will be on par with blu-ray and we can dispense with physical media. Of course not sure what will happen with 4K content. I guess it will always be changing - just the nature of technology.
 
I don't like the idea of buying a movie from iTunes that has DRM, especially considering that the pricing is awful. IMO, I think a fabulous idea would be a model where you rent the movie from iTunes for $5 and get it for 48 hours (another gripe of mine: the 24 hour window is too short, especially for a pricey $6 rental). Then, if you ever want to watch that same movie again, you just pay $1 or $2 and get it for another 48 hour window. If they want to be really generous, they could even apply that money towards the cost of the money so that you would eventually own it.

Regarding the added cost of ripping a disc, I say $2.50/movie. I rip my discs with MakeMKV and keep them at full bitrate, but I don't rip the lossless audio (just whatever Dolby Digital or DTS 5.1 soundtrack there is), and I don't rip any extras. If you figure $100 for a 1TB external 2.5" drive and a movie size averaging 25GB, that works out to 40 movies/drive for $2.50/movie. You can probably get a 1.5TB drive for $100 these days, so it's even cheaper. But I don't bother with RAID or redundant storage, and I actually prefer to keep the drive size down. That way, if the drive does fail, you don't have *too* many movies that you've lost and you just have to re-rip those. Whereas RAID introduces more storage cost and size for the *possibility* of a drive failing. If you own your discs, is it really that big of a deal to re-rip them? Less than an hour per movie for me with MakeMKV.

You can get the cost down even lower if you convert the movies with Handbrake, but that creates three issues:
1) More time/effort involved.
2) More movies per drive means more movies lost if your drive fails.
3) Loss in quality.

If you have a "main viewing room" with a large TV, then do yourself a favor and equip it with a computer/streamer that can handle full-bitrate video. Then let Plex Media Server transcode on-the-fly the full-bitrate movies to send them to your laptop/tablet, which you can then push (using AirPlay) to an Apple TV in all of your secondary rooms.

Yes, this means that you will need a capable computer (e.g., Intel i5) running 24/7. You can use this as your Plex Media Server and as your media player in your "main viewing room". If you're worried about electricity costs, a Mac Mini could be a great choice. In my case, I've got a big honking desktop PC running Windows 7 (with Windows Media Center for TV content) with an Intel i7 chip. It's big and probably a power-hog, but it's remarkably quiet.
 
If you own your discs, is it really that big of a deal to re-rip them?
Ripping them, no. Converting them with Handbrake and adding the metadata adds a good bit of time. That step alone makes it worth having a good failure/backup plan.

You can get the cost down even lower if you convert the movies with Handbrake, but that creates three issues:
1) More time/effort involved.
2) More movies per drive means more movies lost if your drive fails.
3) Loss in quality.

1: This is established and is the trade-off for the ultimate convenience.
2: Not a big deal with a good RAID setup AND a backup plan. Note: RAID is NOT a backup plan.
3: Yes, the quality is lower, but the convenience factor is much higher. The wife and kids can easily browse in iTunes Home Sharing, play stuff on the Apple TV, or sync the movies to their iDevices. While something like Plex might give better quality, the added level of "tech support" needed to set it up and make sure everyone knows how to use it exceeds my goal of keeping it as simple as possible for the rest of the clan. I still have the BR discs for "High Quality viewing".

I'm certainly not arguing that my way is the only "right" way. If Plex works for you, great. More power to you. I'm just giving an alternate viewpoint based on other contributing factors. Each of us have our own needs and I think it's great that we're having this conversation to discuss all the options.
 
While something like Plex might give better quality, the added level of "tech support" needed to set it up and make sure everyone knows how to use it exceeds my goal of keeping it as simple as possible for the rest of the clan.
With Plex, you can keep it super-simple, too. Just tell your wife to use her iPad or iPhone to find the movie she wants using the Plex iOS app. Then AirPlay it to the ATV. There's nothing complicated about that.
 
use an iPad or iPhone to find a movie using the Plex iOS app. Then AirPlay it to the ATV. There's nothing complicated about that.

But doesn't the movie get transcoded to the iOS apps? You still end up watching a lower quality movie. We might as well just play it directly from the Apple TV through iTunes and Home sharing.
 
I'm curious where you guys are seeing the BR/Digital Copy release for cheaper than the 19.99 on iTunes for release day? I usually see them in store around 22.99.
 
But doesn't the movie get transcoded to the iOS apps? You still end up watching a lower quality movie. We might as well just play it directly from the Apple TV through iTunes and Home sharing.

I think as long as the video is encoded in h264 and you have the network bandwidth, plex will try to directly stream it without transcoding. If it's not an ios compatible container (mkv) it tries to re-mux on the fly rather than transcode. This requires "direct play" and "direct stream" enabled. Someone correct me if I don't have this right.
 
I'm curious where you guys are seeing the BR/Digital Copy release for cheaper than the 19.99 on iTunes for release day? I usually see them in store around 22.99.


not on release day, usually a few weeks later

got Planes for $12.99 from best buy two weeks ago. and Great Gatsby for $15 as well.

early digital release and release day buying is for suckers
 
But doesn't the movie get transcoded to the iOS apps? You still end up watching a lower quality movie. We might as well just play it directly from the Apple TV through iTunes and Home sharing.
As cardsdoc stated, depending on some factors, it may not, but even if it does, the resulting quality is quite good and may not be appreciably different than the quality you'd get from downconverting it ahead of time with Handbrake. And, again, my point is that I would recommend using the Apple TV's for secondary rooms, and have your Plex Media Server computer hooked up directly to your main/largest TV, where you can run Plex Home Theater or XBMC w/PleXBMC to play the movies without any transcoding. But you can certainly still have an ATV in the primary room, too, especially if you're worried that other family members will have difficulty switching the TV input to your computer, starting up Plex Home Theater, etc.
 
not on release day, usually a few weeks later

got Planes for $12.99 from best buy two weeks ago. and Great Gatsby for $15 as well.

early digital release and release day buying is for suckers

Typically, the 3D combo packs are cheapest during release week. I hardly see the 3D version get cheaper, unless it's a crappy movie and they're trying to clear it out.
 
Ok, I never buy the 3d version
Man of steel blu ray with uv copy is 9.99 at best buy next week. Will probably pick it up. Every week best buy has a sale on a decent movie out for a few weeks
 
i have a BR player...really like it. never use it. i think physical media is on its last legs.

Doubtful. As 4k media will be released, it will be impossible for streaming services to deliver that content in such quality. It will have to be heavily compressed and compromised, as current streamed 1080p media is. 4k/2k Blu-ray combo packs will be the best way to introduce the 4k Blu-ray discs. Besides, physical media sales greatly outsell digital movie sales. Most of the digital media revenue comes in from rentals and they still fall short. Digital movies sales fall even shorter. All of this includes VOD by the way.
 
The vast majority of people won't own a 4K television, and even the select few who did buy into the hype won't actually be able to tell the difference from a normal viewing distance (though that won't stop them from telling everyone how much better it looks to them). You'll need a really huge screen (think front projector) to notice the difference with 4K, and 4K front projectors will be insanely expensive for quite a while.

This is 3D all over again and it's going to meet the same fate (dead man walking). I have a 1080p front projector with a very large screen, and I certainly wouldn't mind swapping my projector for a 4K unit, but: a) Front projector owners like me are not the norm, and b) I won't pay top dollar for a 4K projector (My 1080p Epson 8350 set me back about $1300 a little over a year ago and it puts out a great picture).

Truth is, even overly compressed 720p/1080p content looks acceptable on my big screen. Back in the early days, my first exposure to a front projector was a Sony CRT unit. Huge. Three RGB lenses. And 480p (if memory serves). Even DVD hadn't been invented yet (about 430 lines of resolution for laserdisc was the best there was). And, believe it or not, a huge screen paired with that was still an impressive sight to behold.

When it comes to movie watching, I'm a big believer in getting a *bigger* screen and not worrying so much about the resolution. Bigger is better. Get yourself a nice 1080p projector and a big screen and enjoy. For the same money, you could get a much smaller 4K TV, and if you sit 6" away from it you may be impressed by all of that extra resolution, but sitting close to a small TV makes for a poor movie watching experience.

And let's not forget the convenience factor. The world willingly gave up LPs and higher-bitrate CDs for the convenience of MP3. I'd love to watch a 4K movie in my living room, but right now I enjoy having my entire movie collection ripped and stored on disk, so that I can stream my movies at will to whatever room in my house I want to. With 4K you can forget about that. The movies will be too huge to store. So you'd better like having to deal with discs and having to sit through 10 minutes of commercials before you can watch your movie.
 
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Doubtful. As 4k media will be released, it will be impossible for streaming services to deliver that content in such quality. It will have to be heavily compressed and compromised, as current streamed 1080p media is....

You are right about compression. But most people don't care and will think their low bit rate streamed 4K movies have "ultra HD" look. Consumers are easy to fool and they will be.

I'm looking forward to 4K monitors for still photos dome with an SLR. Finally an electronic screen that is good enough
 
Doubtful. As 4k media will be released, it will be impossible for streaming services to deliver that content in such quality.
At least Sony has made a head start with their Video Unlimited 4k download service. As you can see, it's not a streaming (yet) but a download service. If Sony went for this (major stakeholder in BluRay technology) then, for me, it's a sign of multimedia-future without physical media.
PS the new encoding standard (H.265) has been touted to keep data rates similar to current FullHD encoding. We'll see.
 
This is 3D all over again and it's going to meet the same fate (dead man walking)

And let's not forget the convenience factor. The world willingly gave up LPs and higher-bitrate CDs for the convenience of MP3. I'd love to watch a 4K movie in my living room, but right now I enjoy having my entire movie collection ripped and stored on disk, so that I can stream my movies at will to whatever room in my house I want to.

strongly agree with both these points. same fate as 3D, just dont see people buying these for their main viewing room, and almost never for their secondary rooms like kitchens and bedrooms. convenience will be huge here, i know when i buy a house and have a proper theatre room, physical media will be bought for re-watchable movies, but more or less things will be digital for viewing throughout the house
 
The vast majority of people won't own a 4K television, and even the select few who did buy into the hype won't actually be able to tell the difference from a normal viewing distance (though that won't stop them from telling everyone how much better it looks to them). You'll need a really huge screen (think front projector) to notice the difference with 4K, and 4K front projectors will be insanely expensive for quite a while.

This is 3D all over again and it's going to meet the same fate (dead man walking). I have a 1080p front projector with a very large screen, and I certainly wouldn't mind swapping my projector for a 4K unit, but: a) Front projector owners like me are not the norm, and b) I won't pay top dollar for a 4K projector (My 1080p Epson 8350 set me back about $1300 a little over a year ago and it puts out a great picture).

Truth is, even overly compressed 720p/1080p content looks acceptable on my big screen. Back in the early days, my first exposure to a front projector was a Sony CRT unit. Huge. Three RGB lenses. And 480p (if memory serves). Even DVD hadn't been invented yet (about 430 lines of resolution for laserdisc was the best there was). And, believe it or not, a huge screen paired with that was still an impressive sight to behold.

When it comes to movie watching, I'm a big believer in getting a *bigger* screen and not worrying so much about the resolution. Bigger is better. Get yourself a nice 1080p projector and a big screen and enjoy. For the same money, you could get a much smaller 4K TV, and if you sit 6" away from it you may be impressed by all of that extra resolution, but sitting close to a small TV makes for a poor movie watching experience.

And let's not forget the convenience factor. The world willingly gave up LPs and higher-bitrate CDs for the convenience of MP3. I'd love to watch a 4K movie in my living room, but right now I enjoy having my entire movie collection ripped and stored on disk, so that I can stream my movies at will to whatever room in my house I want to. With 4K you can forget about that. The movies will be too huge to store. So you'd better like having to deal with discs and having to sit through 10 minutes of commercials before you can watch your movie.

It's not true to assume that a vast majority of people won't own a 4k TV. You have to realize that these sets will become the new tv's "to buy" and as prices continue to drop, these 4k tv's will replace current HDTV's and the customer will end up buying the 4k tv if that is what is only being sold. It will take some time naturally, but the market will move that way. Try to find a CRT tv at a store now a days and you will probably have a hard time trying to do so. Once 4k tv's continue to flood the market, they will replace current HDTV's. This will be very different than 3D. 3D got a big hype because of Avatar, but in reality, that was almost the only movie the 3D hype lasted for. 4k/2160p sets will replace current HDTV's, not supplement them.

Most customers can't tell the difference between Blu-ray or DVD or even hear the difference between lossy and lossless audio, mainly because they don't know what to look for. The main thing they will notice is the tv's running at 240 mhz at the store and think it looks amazing, when it reality that just looks horrible. But in the end, they don't even know what to look for. Same way a person will see a cheap smart phone and a flagship smart phone and probably won't be able to tell the difference between the two. They will just end up buying the cheap one because it's just a smart phone. Won't notice the difference between the retina and non retina display. Or those that don't know the difference between the new flagship phones and the older ones. They just buy the new one because it's the "new thing." Not because they have a good understanding of it.

I guess if compressed 720p/1080i/p content works for you, that's ok. I on the other hand can easily tell the difference and I'll choose the Blu-ray version when ever I can. Which is why I usually give away the digital HD codes that come with movies. They just look and sound pretty bad compared to what I've been spoiled with.

Size is important, but picture and audio quality are much more important to me. I have a 65 inch HDTV and my general rule is to sit 1 foot away for every 10 inches of screen size. At least that is my good viewing position. So it's not true that you need a projector to see the difference in a 4k/2160p tv. Proper sitting distance will determine that. Just the same way that it isn't true that you can't see the difference between 720p and 1080p on a 21 inch screen. The difference is just as noticeable as if it were a larger screen.

And in all honesty, it wasn't that the world gave up CD's only for the convenience of mp3. The convenience of illegally downloading albums and not having to pay for them did that. When people hear their music with tiny ear speakers, quality difference won't be noticeable, and the convenience of carrying more music in the form of mp3 changed the way people took their music with them, but ultimately, it was the ease of illegally downloaded music that drove down the music sales. Regardless of the introduction of digital albums, they failed to outsell their CD counterparts and did absolutely nothing to stop the declining music sales.

But yes, convenience does play a big factor, that's why Netflix leads the way as far as digital media goes. People much rather see what's on Netflix then buy an HD iTunes movie. Personally, I love the high quality of Blu-ray, for now, and I gladly enjoy putting in a disc, setting things up and sitting down to watch the movie. Which by then, the movie is at the menu already. If it wasn't, I don't have to sit through 10 minutes of commercials lol. I can easily skip them by pressing skip forward or the menu button.



You are right about compression. But most people don't care and will think their low bit rate streamed 4K movies have "ultra HD" look. Consumers are easy to fool and they will be.

I'm looking forward to 4K monitors for still photos dome with an SLR. Finally an electronic screen that is good enough
True, they won't notice. But as easily as they are fooled, they will still see the 4k Blu-ray movies and will buy them in the end. Which is why physical SD and HD sales still outsell their digital counterparts.



At least Sony has made a head start with their Video Unlimited 4k download service. As you can see, it's not a streaming (yet) but a download service. If Sony went for this (major stakeholder in BluRay technology) then, for me, it's a sign of multimedia-future without physical media.
PS the new encoding standard (H.265) has been touted to keep data rates similar to current FullHD encoding. We'll see.

Yes, Sony had to offer 4k content for the people buying those new tv's. which is why we saw those "remastered in 4k" movie releases from Sony. When in fact those movies should have been scanned in 4k to begin with. It would just end up being that those are the movies sold in their 4k service. It's more of a stepping stone, offer something to the customers, until Sony and the BDA finalizes the .h265 encode and approve the BDXL, or larger discs for commercial use.

I honestly don't know what codec was used, I assume it was AVC, do these movies include lossless audio? And how large are these movie files?

.H265/HEVC will be very efficient, similar to how AVC was efficient when compared to Mpeg-2, but they can't run it to the ground either. This HEVC encode will be great to offer 4k movies at 80-120GB, but in the download market, there is no way they could offer that. I think HEVC will offer a better experience for those people streaming or downloading 1080p content. Now their low bitrate 1080p movies will look better if they use the HEVC encode. But compress 4k content by that much and you may end up with the same results you have now with streamed or downloaded 1080p movies.
 
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Echoing a lot of the sentiments here, I've gone digital for the vast majority of my movie and TV collection and really don't have any major regrets.

Because I pretty much live in the Apple ecosystem with Apple TVs around the house, iPads, etc., it makes much more sense for me to have that content as digital files versus the physical format.

At one point, I had more than 100 movies and shows on disc, both in DVD and Blu-ray. Looking at my collection, I realized that there were very few that I watched over and over and over again in a given year. So I decided to digitize them all and build a media server. I got rid of almost all my discs and freed up a bunch of shelf space.

As some other folks have mentioned, one of the nicest things I like about going digital is the fact that I don't have to sit through previews and commercials before the movie, nor do I have to worry about waiting for the Blu-ray to load.

Certainly, going digital comes with a bit of a compromise. Obviously for those who are fanatical about having the absolute best video and audio, Blu-ray is still the best (this assumes the choice between legally purchasing a disc or legally downloading from iTunes). If you want extras, the iTunes download may come with extras, but the disc is usually the best way to go. And as many pointed out, the physical format tends to be less expensive than going through iTunes.

I do still keep some discs around for my absolute favorite movies, such as the Star Wars saga, Indiana Jones, Lord of the Rings, etc., but these movies only take up a single shelf in my bookcase while the vast majority of my TV and movies resides on a 4 TB drive.
 
At least Sony has made a head start with their Video Unlimited 4k download service. As you can see, it's not a streaming (yet) but a download service. If Sony went for this (major stakeholder in BluRay technology) then, for me, it's a sign of multimedia-future without physical media.
PS the new encoding standard (H.265) has been touted to keep data rates similar to current FullHD encoding. We'll see.

the business model of digital media is impulse buying. you have your CC saved so you don't think of it as buying and spending. and its right there and easy to buy.

its not going to replace physical media, only appeal to those with no impulse control

i buy digital copies of cheap movies on sale for $5 or so. anything real good i'll buy the blu ray
 
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