Yes, I'm curious about that too. A lot of PC laptops have that horrible "nose cam", caused by putting the camera at the bottom of the screen. I hope Apple doesn't do that...
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DigiTimes: 16-Inch MacBook Pro Will Feature Narrow Bezels and Launch in September
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Yes, I'm curious about that too. A lot of PC laptops have that horrible "nose cam", caused by putting the camera at the bottom of the screen. I hope Apple doesn't do that...
DanBig said: ↑
Just give us the dam ports back!
Sideshowuniqueuser said:
Tell that to Apple's Pro Workflow Group who have all of those ports and more in the new Mac Pro and iMac Pro.
All those ports on the 2019 Mac Pro are Thunderbolt 3...It only has two USB 3 Type-A ports on a removable card. Hopefully, some enterprising company will replace that PCIe card with something more useful. Ditto for the iMac Pro. I would love to see those USB-A ports all replaced by USB-C ports in the next revision. Either way, both have way more space to accommodate USB-A Ports than the MacBook Pros and Apple cannot waste valuable space on the MacBook Pro with something as useless as USB-A ports.
You're having a laugh, right? The new Mac Pro has the following ports:
4x Thunderbolt 3 / USB-C
2x USB3 / USB-A
2x HDMI
2x Ethernet
1x Headphone jack
8x PCI slots where you can put whatever ports you want
That's a lot of "useless" ports for a top of the line pro machine. This from the Pro Workflow Group who hired a bunch of pros to integrate their workflow into a machine that doesn't hold them back. Like, holding them back with stupid ideas such as removing the ports they need.
You're basically arguing your case simple because *your* personal workflow doesn't need or want anything but USB-C. There are a lot of people with the same needs as you. But there are also a lot of us who need more ports. Jony Ive agreed with you. The Pro Workflow Group agrees with us. Jony Ive is gone. PWG is here to stay. If the new 16" MBP doesn't bring back ports then I will be very surprised.
Just give us the dam ports back!
- 2 - USB-A
- 4 - USB-C
- Rear USB-C ports (L&R) recessed to accept flush MagSafe Plug & cable with charge LED
- Ethernet & SD Slot
Sideshowuniqueuser said:
Tell that to Apple's Pro Workflow Group who have all of those ports and more in the new Mac Pro and iMac Pro.
All those ports on the 2019 Mac Pro are Thunderbolt 3...It only has two USB 3 Type-A ports on a removable card. Hopefully, some enterprising company will replace that PCIe card with something more useful. Ditto for the iMac Pro. I would love to see those USB-A ports all replaced by USB-C ports in the next revision. Either way, both have way more space to accommodate USB-A Ports than the MacBook Pros and Apple cannot waste valuable space on the MacBook Pro with something as useless as USB-A ports.
You're having a laugh, right? The new Mac Pro has the following ports:
4x Thunderbolt 3 / USB-C
2x USB3 / USB-A
2x HDMI
2x Ethernet
1x Headphone jack
8x PCI slots where you can put whatever ports you want
That's a lot of "useless" ports for a top of the line pro machine. This from the Pro Workflow Group who hired a bunch of pros to integrate their workflow into a machine that doesn't hold them back. Like, holding them back with stupid ideas such as removing the ports they need.
You're basically arguing your case simple because *your* personal workflow doesn't need or want anything but USB-C. There are a lot of people with the same needs as you. But there are also a lot of us who need more ports. Jony Ive agreed with you. The Pro Workflow Group agrees with us. Jony Ive is gone. PWG is here to stay. If the new 16" MBP doesn't bring back ports then I will be very surprised.
You have provided a lot of WORKAROUNDS for connectivity which is good but you always miss the point.
We are talking here about a a professional LAPTOP which should be MOBILE because it's a laptop and for that it should provide a host of connectivity options without needing a lot of dongles. All we ask is maybe 2 USB-A port and a card reader and perhaps HDMI so you don't need to use another dongle or adapter for that. For a premium price laptop it should not be a problem to add those ports along with 4 Thunderbolt UCB-C ports. I understand it will not look good because it will have a lot of holes on the side but its a pro laptop after all not some kind of status symbol. But anyway, I rest my case. Like I sad I am just being objective, not a fan of Apple and definitely not a hater too. I am even considering getting a Macbook Pro 15 for my next project.
Ive will have been involved with the 16” as well as most of the other products that will come out in the next couple years—and possibly for many years to come, depending on the degree of his continued involvement at Apple. Ive designed the iMac, Mac mini, iMac Pro and the 2019 Mac Pro over the last few years and all those have lots of different ports besides Thunderbolt 3. Does the 12” MacBook? No, of course not! It’s a 2lb. laptop. Well, a MBP isn’t all that different.
A thin, light battery-powered MBP is subject to constraints that are not present with desktops. Apple’s thinking is crystal clear. When used on-the-go, laptops don’t usually have much, if anything, plugged into them in terms of peripherals. If someone is at lunch, at a coffee shop, at a park, on a couch or in bed, they want a thin, light, sufficiently fast and long-lasting machine. (That’s not an Ive “thin obsession/fetish” issue—it’s what Apple’s customers, by and large, have told Apple they want. It has exactly zero to do with Ive forcing some form over function agenda down anyone’s throat.)
Now if you’re at work, or toiling away in your home office—or an on-location pro for that matter—a simple $99 USB-only hub (or if required, a more expensive Thunderbolt 3 hub) gives users a one-cable solution for charging and provides a ton of ports and incredible I/O bandwidth.
Detach a cable or two at work, plug in probably one cable at home; the convenience and connectivity is unparalleled. If you’re working in the field, use a hub if you need certain ports.
I wouldn’t be completely surprised if Apple added a USB-A port or two, but I don’t expect HDMI or, even less likely, (the increasingly obsolete) SD card slot. Zero chance of Mag Safe and various other ports. The percentage of users who need those things, where a hub isn’t a better solution, isn’t large enough for Apple to add them back for all.
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I travel professionally a lot and have simply replaced my old USB-A cables with USB-C, with only a dongle for video and my micro SD card. The MBP has a host of connection options without need for a dongle if you buy new cables. Personally, I see no real difference between a USB-A to C adaptor on the end of a cable and the cable itself.
I see no compelling reason for Apple to return to an old standard, especially as more accessories move to USB C. My Bose 700's use a USB-C cable so my power cable for the MBP charges them as well, as does my iPad. the MBP has required a dongle for video for a while now as well.
For most pros it works just fine as is. I prefer the smaller size and weight to a bulkier heavier machine to lug through airports.
They aren’t workarounds, they are simply scenarios that illustrate how versatile the four TB3 ports are...like I said, I would appreciate another two USB-C 3.1 Gen 2 (10Gbps) port’s in addition to the four TB3 ports. SD Card is a 50/50 to me, and HDMI is simply not needed. On my 15” 2015, I would have much rather had an extra USB 3 port and toss the HDMI. Hopefully, Apple won’t regress on this...
...and the old MBP had a host of connection options without the need for a dongle or new cables... and nobody is suggesting that the new MBP should have zero USB-C/TB3 ports, so that would include TB displays, docks and USB-C 3.1g2 devices. It had even got to the stage where data projectors were starting to come with HDMI so you didn't even need a VGA dongle any more.
...well, yes, that's actually part of the problem: in most cases, no advantage c.f. a USB-A cable, or a USB-C cable with a C-to-A adaptor (which usually comes in the box with any USB3.1-over-USB-C not made by Apple). So the only difference is the $5-$30 you paid for the adapter/new cable (times however many you need) - or the fact that it doesn't work possibly accompanied by the smell of burning electronics if you got a cheaper no-name adapter because you were feeling lucky.
Oh, and in many cases, look harder: that simple, what-can-possibly-go-wrong cable is now an active cable with an ID chip and/or various strategically placed resistors or other components that has to meet a complex protocol stack. That HDMI-HDMI cable now has needs all the extras to correctly force the USB-C port into DisplayPort Alt Mode plus an active DisplayPort-to-HDMI converter (same routine for VGA)... and when devices that support "native" USB-C HDMI Alt Mode start to appear we'll have a new generation of physically identical USB-C-to-HDMI adaptors that won't work on most existing computers. Even the USB-C to DisplayPort cables include some power conversion jiggery-pokery - its not like the old TB1/2 ports with DP++ so you could just plug a passive full-sized-DP, HDMI, VGA or DVI in and they'd emit the right signal.
In most cases, all USB-C achieves is to combine several otherwise independent functions (Thunderbolt, USB 2/3/3.1, data, displayPort) into a single connector. Which may be great for phones (...for the five minutes between USB-C becoming ubiquitous and all phones going totally wireless and hermetically sealed) but is a pointless form-over-function complication on anything bigger than a 12" MacBook that just adds a whole new and exciting catalogue of things to go wrong along with a combinatorial explosion of cable types.
Of course, the whole idea was born at the time when the entire computer industry decided that tablets and phones were the future and nobody wanted PCs ...turns out that nobody wanted PCs because the computer industry was ploughing all of their effort into developing and selling mobiles, to the extent of even messing up PC software to make it more "mobile like" (*cough* Windows 8 *cough*). I suspect the only reason that Intel adopted the USB-C connector for Thunderbolt 3 was so that they could sell their TB3 controllers as the 'go-to' USB 3.1 controller, too... because I want my super-fast external storage array to be plugged into a scratty little connector, designed for phones, that falls out if you give it a hard stare.
Oh, and a USB-C cable killed my brother, stole my wife, traumatised my pet cat and made me go bald. Every USB-C connector is made by strangling a baby seal with dolphin entrails....
But seriously, folks - its a different shaped connector for a bunch of established protocols that work just fine with the old connectors. It doesn't do anything new.
The Mac Pro should have a lot of ports, that’s the whole point of the machine, right? But I heard people complaining it only had two USB-A port from the moment it was announced. The trade off there is that it weighs 40lbs and won’t fit in your messenger bag, I.e it don’t travel well.
The 2016-2019 MacBook Pro has the most useful and versatile ports on it for its use case, which allows it to adapt to whatever situation you find yourself working in...I actually think the current MacBook Pro is better suited to traveling pros than the 2012-2015 MBP as you can load it out the way that you want it and economize as @jlc1978 discusses in his post. Not having to carry a MagSafe charger and a USB charger when you travel with multiple devices saves weight and space.
Despite Ive leaving soon and the PWG influencing things moving forward, I don’t see them reversing course on USB-A when there is simply no need to do so and a new cable or an adapter achieves the same end result. This is no different than the 2012-2015 Retina MacBook Pros which needed “dongles” for Firewire 800 and Gigabit Ethernet connections. The overreaction to the loss of USB-A is incredibly puzzling since Apple didn’t take USB ports away, they simply moved to the new (industry standard) connector. They did plenty of research that told them that the SD-Card and HDMI ports weren’t critical or they would have left them on the 2016-2019 MacBook Pro. I’ve been living this way since 2012 when Apple got rid of the 17” MacBook Pro and I moved to a 15” Retina. Need more USB ports or GigE, add a dock if you’re stationary or pack a dongle. Still have FW800 peripherals, try to find a Thunderbolt Dock or add a dongle. We’re 7 years into this sort of way of doing things and 3 years with what amounts to a new connector for both USB and Thunderbolt and you and others are still acting hysterically over something the rest of us got over a long time ago. So good luck, you’ll either adapt and move on or you’ll cling to USB-A to the bitter end for no good reason other than stubbornness.
In the end you can chose to buy overpriced products that are badly designed and you can barely type.
Although it might meet your needs, Mac sales are down year over year for a reason.
Same with iPhones. For the first time, iPhone revenue is below 50%. Users are getting tired of being ripped off.
Yes, but the PWG haven't had influence over the pre-16" MBP, so let's see what happens. I will be surprised if we don't see some of the ports coming back.
True, Jony Ive probably had influence over the new iMac Pro and Mac Pro, but the 16" MBP will be the first MBP that the Pro Workflow Group have had influence over. I will be amazed if we don't see a step away from the thin and light at all costs mentality, they will leave that to the MBA. You talk about wanting thin and light for a portable machine, well I was perfectly comfortable with carrying around my old 17" 2010 MBP, and my current 15" 2015 rMBP is a doddle. The new MBP's are beautiful to look at, and lovely and light, but tragically underwhelming in what they could have been in function. Looks like we will soon find out, but I will be surprised if they don't bring back at least some of the ports in the 16", and lots of other little function oriented details (eg removable and 100% airline-allowed battery size, less-thinness-constrained thermal design, upgradeable RAM and SSD, and durable keyboards and screen), with thin and light playing second fiddle.
My exception:
1. Ultra thin bezel
2. Face ID
3. WiFi 6 (802.11 AX)
4. A Processor that is better than current i9-9980HK
5. Navi Graphics
6. 64GB LPDDR4 Memory
1. Ultra thin bezel
2. Face ID
3. WiFi 6 (802.11 AX)
4. A Processor that is better than current i9-9980HK
5. Navi Graphics
6. 64GB LPDDR4 Memory
Your opinion. As I said, buy what neets your needs and budget. For me, that's a MBP which I like better than any other machine on the market no matter the price of either.
It seems for most manufactures sales are down. Apple's 18Q4 market share was up slighlty, so I'd say peopel tended to be more satisfied with Macs than the alternatives in most cases.
And Apple had record revenues again. The iPhone is a maturing product in a maturing market with a lot of competition at the high end of the market. Combine that with other products growing revenue and the iPhone's percentage is bound to lessen, which is a good thing.
I doubt there is this "Ive was wrong" contingent in the PWG. While they may not have agreed with all the thin and light tradeoffs and may reverse some I suspect the design philosophy is deep enough at Apple that we'll see minor changes rather than a return to the product you describe.
Considering the MBP already has a long battery life that meets most user needs, making it removable would add complexity for no discernible value.
I'd like to see upgradeable RAM and SSDs would be nice but I suspect since most users would never upgrade keeping them as is cuts costs, adds margin from users needing higher specs, and simplifies design and manufacturing.
Durable keyboards and screen - that I think Apple wants as well.
Looking forward, I need to upgrade. Do not understand the whiners, I still remember windows (shudder). As Air does not give performance I now need, I would love the bigger screen to come with thinner body. That is what put me off current pro.
The problem has been Apple obsession of make the MBP thinner, sacrificing performance and features.
Because of that all the MBP2016+ has been a disaster.
- they removed Mag-Safe,
- All soldered components
- Worse and most unreliable keyboard ever.
- Removed of multiple ports (HDMI, etc).
- Cramming 8 cores in the same enclosures that had problems cooling 4.
That’s not on Apple. Intel claims the same TDP for those chips, so they better have comparable thermal behavior. There are no higher-TDP laptop chips.
You consider the current 2016-2019 13” and 15” MacBook Pro too thick? Having owned a 2011, 2012, 2015 and the 2016 models, I consider the 2012-2015 thin enough and mostly light enough, but the 2016-2019 model is superb in both regards, IMHO.
Yeah, uh...no. That's unrealistic...I believe Apple has made it as thin as is possible. A good percentage of users would like the next MacBook Pro 13" and 15" to be a bit thicker to accommodate a larger battery. I enjoy the current (2016-2019) models thinness, but I nothing more considering I want it to be as high performance as possible, which becomes exponentially more difficult as it gets thinner. Thinner would make the existing butterfly keyboard nearly impossible to be replaced with a scissors mechanism.
If a few additional mm of thickness would help improve battery life and cooling for the CPU and GPU, I would clearly want that prioritized over thinner. Note that I do not want a tear drop shape as the MBA is, nor do I want USB-A ports added back on, which would necessitate a thicker chassis.
My preference would be for Apple to release a 17" MacBook Pro that while it might be thinner than the previous 17" model, has higher resolution than whatever this 16" model ends up being.
Maybe I will be impressed with the 16" model once it is released, but right now, I am taking a wait and see attitude.
Laugh at me if you must, but does anyone think this well be positioned as the i/Mac Pro of the laptop line and thus -- in addition to costing $$$$ -- will offer user upgradability? I feel like there's at least a 25% or so chance that everything won't be soldered in. If so this immediately become a must-buy and new primary machine for me.