Uhh, my Chase Sapphire Preferred card doesn't have embossed numbers and it supported Apple Pay immediately after it came out. I'm thinking it's more that Discover didn't support chip until recently so they couldn't support AP even if they wanted.
Discover Announces Apple Pay Support Beginning This Fall
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Uhh, my Chase Sapphire Preferred card doesn't have embossed numbers and it supported Apple Pay immediately after it came out. I'm thinking it's more that Discover didn't support chip until recently so they couldn't support AP even if they wanted.
So is Mastercard. Point?
thewebb
macrumors regular
Yep! I do.
You know, "winky face" means I'm joking with you.
I thought it was pretty obvious you weren't interested in the watch when you said you wanted a smaller phone that worked with it, even though that option obviously exists.
macintologist
macrumors 6502a
Why would you get Discover when Visa is accepted everywhere?
There's also a field in the EMV specification that specifies what cardholder verification methods are allowed, and in what order. Some US banks are issuing chip card that require signature (as first priority), and a PIN if the (unattended) terminal doesn't support signature.
That field has several values, but one of this is "no authentication required". But, it's unclear (to me) if the merchant point-of-sale terminals will honor it.
thekeyring
macrumors 68040
Yep. It shows faith in Siri that they're showing off dictating a reply and controlling your Watch with it. Plus, if rumours are true it will be a big part of the revamped Apple TV.
If the problem is, as you wrote, that the UK banks don't want to implement the EMVCo tokenization standard (for either legitimate reasons or otherwise), then the problem is still with the UK banks. Apple Pay is the first implementation of the EMVCo standard. Apple didn't create their own standard.
Has Apple actually made an announcement about Apple Pay in the UK? All I've seen are un-sourced articles, most of which say the UK banks are unwilling to agree to the same terms that Apple negotiated with US banks. Again, that's a UK bank problem, not an Apple problem.
The only Apple Pay security problem that I've read about is actually a bank problem -- again. The banks are responsible for verifying that the person adding a card to Apple Pay is actually the cardholder. Some are requiring a phone call -- my bank actually introduced an app that requires me to login to online banking and confirm it. If a bank doesn't do some sort of verification, then it's a piece of cake to "clone" a stolen card into Apple Pay.
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Some? How about almost all of them. And a whole lot of cards don't even have a PIN for unattended terminals, too.
Anyway, I scanned each of the card types with a card reader and the iPhone indicates that "no CVM required", signature and "mobile device CVM" are supported. The first one seems to be used only for small transactions.
I'm not sure why it would stop working -- I suspect there's a problem in the payment network.
I've run into situations where Apple Pay didn't work, but a contactless card for the same account worked fine. I suspect there's a bug in the merchant's terminal that's somehow corrupting the transaction data and causing the validation to fail on the other end.
But, I've also encountered cases where neither Apple Pay or the contactless card worked, even though the terminal was clearly labeled with the NFC logo, AND terminal accepted the "tap". But, the transaction is denied. In this case, I suspect that the merchant bought an NFC-enabled terminal, but doesn't have NFC payment service from his payment processor. I don't know if it was a oversight, or if they have to pay extra and declined to do so.
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Well, in my anecdotal experience, only "some" have a PIN. Of all of my cards, only one bank has issued me a card with a PIN. The others have no chip PIN at all. I don't know how prevalent the PIN actually is, but I hope US banks introduce them universally. But, we would have to see widespread use of handheld wireless terminals to make a PIN the primary verification.
But, I can tell you that the handful of unattended terminals I used in Europe didn't know how to process a "secondary" PIN. One refused to accept my card and I had to pay cash. The other never asked for a PIN at all.
There are a couple of banks in the US that issue a chip card with a PIN as primary verification. They are in the DC area, and cater to people that do a lot of international travel.
How is this POV even relevant? Why would anyone ever choose anything other than the individual leader in any market? Consumer choice.
I'm guessing you're referring to Andrews and State Department FCU, correct? Those are chip and signature with secondary PIN (I have the Andrews card). If not, which ones are you referring to that have PIN as primary? This information will be useful for people on this other forum that I hang out on.
There are also different types of PIN (on card/"offline" vs. at the bank/"online") and it's very likely that the cards you have that have a PIN were the latter. Online PIN support in Europe is a bit flaky from what I hear. Also, Visa cards seem to be way more likely to not have a PIN at all than MasterCard; Discover and AmEx don't have PIN at all, at least in the US.
Q-Dog
macrumors 6502a
You know, "winky face" means I'm joking with you.
I thought it was pretty obvious you weren't interested in the watch when you said you wanted a smaller phone that worked with it, even though that option obviously exists.
"winky face" is the type of sillyness I tend to ignore
Q-Dog
macrumors 6502a
I feel the love! The whole post was silliness, so you at least didn't ignore that
I'm just crankier than usual today. I had planned to spend the day out in the yard ... instead I'm stuck indoors with spotty internet, flickering power, severe thunderstorms, high winds and a tornado watch.
I didn't remember the names, but yes. I suspect we hang out on the same forum at Flyertalk.
I haven't been there for a while, but I thought those has been confirmed as PIN primary. Was that an error, or did they change it with the deployment of EMV chips in the US?
No worries - stay safe, and I'm willing to bet we will see smaller phones again... eventually.
I didn't remember the names, but yes. I suspect we hang out on the same forum at Flyertalk.
I haven't been there for a while, but I thought those has been confirmed as PIN primary. Was that an error, or did they change it with the deployment of EMV chips in the US?
As of today only UNFCU issues PIN primary cards and is open for apps. The rest are either closed for apps (Diners Club) or switched to chip and signature (Navy Federal, USAA).
bookwormsy
macrumors 6502
This is exciting!
macintologist
macrumors 6502a
As a consumer interested in making a choice, I'm curious why somebody would decide to have a Discover card when there might be stores that don't even take it, so you'd be stuck with having a Visa card anyway!
freeskier93
macrumors 6502
I've had a Discover card for a number of years now, haven't met a place yet that doesn't accept Discover. I do also carry a Capitol One Visa and have a Wells Fargo Visa that sits in a lockbox. I primarily use my Discover card because the cash back rewards are way better. 1% on everything and 5% on rotating categories and 5% through certain online retailers (like Apple). I rack up cash back way faster on my Discover card then my Capitol One card which is a flat 2% on everything. Neither cards have fees.
Cash back redemption with Discover is also really nice. You can easily apply it to your balance but my favorite is having it linked to my Amazon account, which easily Leta me apply my cash back to orders.
Finally, Discover's iPhone app is really nice. It was one of the first apps to integrate TouchID and support the 6/6+ screen sizes. By comparison the CapitolOne app is still a blown up mess on the 6+ and no TouchID support.
God people. Get a grip. Following this wonderful logic, why would anyone ever have an AmEx then?
Yet they still do...
I guess some people like different things for different reasons.
Here's a few reasons: interest rates, annual fees, cash back, rewards. Take your pick. are you really ridiculing people for choosing a different credit card than you?
That's just stupid.
macintologist
macrumors 6502a
How is being curious the same as ridiculing?
Boomish69
macrumors 6502
You seem to think the world revolves around the US, the EMV standard has been in the UK for a number of years, the US lags generally due to it's size and fragmentation. So Apple bring out a product with Apple Pay that they claim will work world wide, they did say coming to the UK early 2015!
Negotiations with UK banks to use this technology & supporting software weren't put into place before this announcement it seems, despite the fact that UK has had contactless software like this for years. We have dedicated card reading hardware for authorisation and now have apps , Barclays "Ping it" where I can send money instantly to my family instantly on my mobile has been around ages. The rest of the world isn't in the dark ages waiting for Apple to make something, we had all this already! so why should it be UK banks fault to accept a product that is a spin on the EMV standard they don't think is secure, or changes it to favour the banks and not the merchant. My impression is Apple Pay was developed with what seems to be no collaboration with existing more advanced systems already in place in Europe.
I'm no expert here so yes I'm guessing but blaming everything on the UK banks is wrong! I read an article written by one of the original team behind the token system, who said he was baffled why it has been developed in such complex way, the whole basis of the token system was to keep things simple. Apple and banks have complicated it far to much, the reasons seem more to do with liability and ownership I think.
End of the day I don't care who fault it is, Apple said they would deliver Apple Pay so should have got agreements with UK banks first but they didn't. It's not the first time Apple brings software to the US while the rest of Apple customers in Europe waits..