Do I get my money back?

[OriginalAppleGuy]

Don't say for performance because an iPhone 7 with ios10 can run both 64bit and 32 bit apps. Surely an iPhone 8 is faster than a iPhone 7.

Don't say for security because Apple is regularly provides os updates.

Time for you to box your iPhone up and send it back to Apple. In one of my earlier posts I explained the why. If you are not able to comprehend what it all means, well, good luck in to the future. In fact, I can recommend, if you like Apple products, an 8-bit Apple ][ with 64K memory and cassette tape player for loading programs. That may suit you better.

 

[masotime]

When a dialog box pops up with a wall of text and there is only one choice (ok), most people are not going to read it. They are just going to click ok so they can run their app. (Bad design by Apple)

That's a really bad attitude - your "wall of text" is barely 2-3 lines. If you ignore it despite it appearing each time, you only have yourself to blame - blaming "design by Apple" is pure petulance.

 

[0924487]

There is more to it than just memory. Chip design and operating system are both included in that and I am sure that Apple is tired of supporting the dying architecture. So, you force people to move and everyone was given ample notice.

32bit apps slow down 64bit OS. They are less efficient. To support 32bit apps, the system will waste more resources. Since they are not natively compatible, the CPU scheduler will leave some cores idle longer than necessary, hence, system performance degrades, stalls and battery die faster.

 

[E.Lizardo]

I was also not aware and didn’t see any warnings. There is only one app that I care about that doesn’t work, which is an app that goes with my baby monitor. I use this app multiple times a day to check up on my baby and now I can’t open it. This type of baby monitor is a camera and doesn’t come with a separate monitor and instead uses an app. This is the reason why I bought the baby camera so I wouldn’t have a separate monitor to use. Luckily I haven’t updated my mini yet so can use it on that. But, the average person doesn’t keep up on these tech forums and what’s happening and doesn’t even know the difference between 32 and 64 bit apps. There was no warning when opening any of my apps. I know the developer dropped the ball and will be contacting them to get this app updated or refund me my $200 for a baby camera I can no longer use, but Apple has some fault in this too.
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Lol, there are probably 5 of those apps that I’ve used in the last year. My baby monitor which is the only important one, Tetris, a few diner dash games and a workout app. I really need to clean up and delete a lot.
[doublepost=1505965718][/doublepost]

This is not true. I haven’t seen one warning.

This is why I have resolved to NEVER buy anything like your monitor, home automation, thermostats etc. that are dependent on an app. They will all be landfill fodder long before their time because app development will be dropped, and you are left with having to keep a phone/ipad on an obsolete OS or be stuck with electronic refuse.

 

[daflake]

32bit apps slow down 64bit OS. They are less efficient. To support 32bit apps, the system will waste more resources. Since they are not natively compatible, the CPU scheduler will leave some cores idle longer than necessary, hence, system performance degrades, stalls and battery die faster.

Yes, I am fully aware....

 

[Cascades42]

32bit apps slow down 64bit OS. They are less efficient. To support 32bit apps, the system will waste more resources. Since they are not natively compatible, the CPU scheduler will leave some cores idle longer than necessary, hence, system performance degrades, stalls and battery die faster.

And this to me is why it makes no sense they'd keep supporting 32 bit apps. It's a worse experience for the users and the developer hasn't updated the app since at least 2015 either.

 

[charlituna]

When a dialog box pops up with a wall of text and there is only one choice (ok), most people are not going to read it. They are just going to click ok so they can run their app. (Bad design by Apple)

it was hardly a wall of text. in fact it was one, maybe two, sentences.

 

[bradbomb]

For everyone writing that the warning came up EVERY time the app was launched in iOS 10 is not completely accurate. Before iOS 11, the 32-bit app would provide the slow down warning the FIRST time it was launched after a restart or I believe if you quit out of the app in the App Switcher. Once you opened and leave and come back, the warning would not pop up again until one of the two things above happens. There was a Sudoko game I play regularly (kills time for me) and until 10.3.3, it was still not updated to 64-bit. I did not get the warning every time, just after restarts or force quits. The app developer randomly updated it after WWDC so it still works. Two games and one app I have that I know were not updated and no longer work were:

Karateka - Paid for
Flappy Bird - Free (and I know it was pulled from the app store long ago)
AutoStitch - Paid for (Sometimes creates better Panoramics than Apple's swoop Pan)

I had others too, but these I remember off the top of my head
[doublepost=1506061528][/doublepost]

Normal people don't see all this forum crap and no one and i mean no one reads the Ts&cs so don't even think about playing that card.....

I was simply not aware, regardless of how much you protest that it was mentioned 2 years ago or more ago or even yesterday...., so I'm sure normal people are just the same....... i'd love to tell you what projects I'm working on - but I'm not allowed due to NDAs....

@AFEPPL I'm sorry, but you are a "macrumors 68020" member only joining 3 years ago. That means you have posted on this forum over 2005 times in 3 years. You are on this forum quite a bit to say I don't see all this forum crap.

 

[masotime]

For everyone writing that the warning came up EVERY time the app was launched in iOS 10 is not completely accurate. Before iOS 11, the 32-bit app would provide the slow down warning the FIRST time it was launched after a restart or I believe if you quit out of the app in the App Switcher.

Thanks, that clarifies things a lot. It sounds unfortunate then that Apple didn't increase the nag factor for these apps, that would probably have prompted customers to be more alert and to drive more demands for developers to update their apps.

 

[Kal-037]

Sorry, normal consumers have better things to do then keeping up to date with the latest news about Apple and iOS.

And I still don’t see the need of killing 32-bit when Apple only has 4 GB of Ram on the iPad Pro.

Actually you don’t need more than 4GB of RAM to run 64bit (it’s better but is not necessary.) I had Vista on an old 2008 HP laptop with 4GB RAM, then I upgraded to windows 7 in 64Bit and it worked flawlessly.you can look up thousands of sites saying the same thing. This whole 4GB of RAM isn’t enough to run 64bit OS, is incorrect.
Even 2GB is enough, it’s not ideal, but iOS is created in a way that RAM isn’t as much of an issue, the applications are the problem. For heavy OS systems 4GB of RAM or more are usually best but still not actually necessary.
*Just my knowledge from 13 years of Computer engineering.



Kallum.

 

[AFEPPL]

@AFEPPL I'm sorry, but you are a "macrumors 68020" member only joining 3 years ago. That means you have posted on this forum over 2005 times in 3 years. You are on this forum quite a bit to say I don't see all this forum crap.

I don't know how to break it to you, but.... nope this article or thread IS the first I'd seen.
Take that how you will. But I'm sure you know better than me around what i did or didn't see.

I'm not upgrading to 11, so it's not impacted me and I've had no warning on the apps I own so I guess I'm golden, however still doesn't make it a good move.

 

[newellj]

For everyone writing that the warning came up EVERY time the app was launched in iOS 10 is not completely accurate. Before iOS 11, the 32-bit app would provide the slow down warning the FIRST time it was launched after a restart or I believe if you quit out of the app in the App Switcher. Once you opened and leave and come back, the warning would not pop up again until one of the two things above happens. .

I wasn't sure that was what I remembered so I experimented on my 10.3.3 iPhone and that's right. My takeaway from that is further belief that Apple could have handled this a lot better. I don't think there's really specific bad guy in this situation. Lazy devs...Apple policies that could have been better...Apple warnings that could have been clearer...users ignoring the warnings that Apple did throw up.

And there may be hope for some of these. The 32 bit app that is the reason I haven't updated my iPhone was updated yesterday, so it now works. Maybe some of the other sleeping devs will wake up, though for games where the team is gone that's probably too much to hope.

 

[bopajuice]

Can't stand in the way of progress. Even if the user agreement clearly informed the user, does not make it right or a good thing. Happened to me with iTunes movies and music. Over time some stuff disappears. I guess agreements and digital rights change, and in the case of Apps anything not updated to 64 bit get's the axe as the iOS evolves.

I totally get it, but the part I don't get, is that if someone paid for their apps, and wants to stay on an older iOS version, they cannot downgrade to that previous version and continue to enjoy the apps they paid for. It has already been suggested Apple cripples older devises to encourage the user to upgrade. If this is the attitude Apple wants us to adapt, then they should offer the user an option to upgrade to an alternative App. If not, then continue to offer downloads of past iOS's so the user can continue to enjoy the apps they paid for.

 

[HippyRabbitFish]

After seeing the various viewpoints here, I had a bit of an epiphany about my own expectations regarding software and supporting OSes.

In the days of physical copies of software, we could always re-install fresh on a new machine, or a new "old" machine, or inside a virtual machine. This required we could provide an OS that supported that original software, but if we we could, we were golden, usually.

With iOS 11 and with the removal of access to even the digital IPA files with the latest iTunes update, that is not even remotely possible to do with old, older, and ancient iOS software, and especially without the ability to run an iOS version that supports 32-bit apps once 10.3.3 goes away.

Apple has not once implied or expressly stated that we would always be able to go back to parts of the walled garden that they deem obsolete. We either choose to be in the garden, or we don't. Is Apple being heavy-handed here? When I first started reading this thread, I thought so.

Apple is maintaining the garden by purging the "old and antiquated" 32-bit apps to ensure the curated experience in the walled garden will be as optimal as possible. Could they hold off a bit longer? Yes, but at a cost. They are choosing a different path than that of other, more open systems that deliberately enable support for older technologies.

With that mentality, I look to developers to update existing apps to 64-bit, build a new version that is supported in the "modern" walled garden Apple provides in iOS and with the newest A Series processors, or to disappear from the development world for iOS. Chances are, if a 32-bit app hasn't been updated at all since 2015, it's not going to get an update to 64-bit.

I also look to myself at how willing I am to spend money on an app if I don't expect to use it regularly, frequently, or even enough to justify the cost, knowing that there is a limited amount of time, most likely, that I will have to use said app. It will make me pause before purchasing any product that relies on an app.

Regardless, Apple has a history of cutting off legacy products, which is always a brave and bold decision to make. How soon to make that decision is known best in hindsight, but this situation seems similar to the Mac architecture changes from 68k-PPC-Intel, so far as I can tell.

The writing was on the wall for developers. The pop-up messages that began in iOS 10 were a bit vague (I consider myself pretty tech savvy). Apple could have done more to warn of their intention to completely drop 32-bit apps with iOS 11, and we consumers should not get caught with assumptions that just because we pay for a software license, we may not always be able to make use of that license if the platform on which it runs changes. We don't have CDs and floppies around that allow us to install older iOS on another device, and IPAs are going away (I personally still dislike this change, but accept it all the same).

If you read this far, thanks! If not, I don't blame you! lol!

 

[macfacts]

"Apple controls both the hardware and software"

I read that phrase a lot. So what does that phrase mean when things are broken? Is it Apple's fault? They are the ones in control of the hardware and iOS.

 

[OriginalAppleGuy]

"Apple controls both the hardware and software"

I read that phrase a lot. So what does that phrase mean when things are broken? Is it Apple's fault? They are the ones in control of the hardware and iOS.

In general:

It means that by controlling the hardware the operating system runs on, they can keep the OS more efficient and reliable. They don't have to allow for a plethora of different sets of hardware drivers that may conflict one another.

In relation to the software, they set the standards by which software can be coded to work most efficiently with the OS and keep, or eliminate, conflicts with other software. They scan apps to ensure compliance for those standards. This also helps keep malware at bay.

All of that together makes for a better experience for users of their products. Windows, as an operating system, is an atrocity. Drivers constantly conflict with one another, software constantly conflicts with one another, you have to reboot the system on a consistent basis to recover from memory leaks and other things that cause issues with using the system.

Apple does it better. They are not infallible. They make mistakes and leave room for improvements. But their systems run very well.

 

[maflynn]

"Apple controls both the hardware and software"

I read that phrase a lot. So what does that phrase mean when things are broken? Is it Apple's fault? They are the ones in control of the hardware and iOS.

No, it means they design the hardware and OS. They do not design other people's applications or are responsible for other developer's applications for having bugs.

That phrase dates back to when Apple was fighting against MS, and Windows. Back then there was (still is actually), a myriad of PC makers, component makers and hardware choices. Microsoft had to write Windows to be very open ended to ensure all types of components worked within windows. To that point they had less ability to optimize the code since one optimization may help one component maker, but hurt another. Apple on the other hand had control of the hardware, and so they could fully optimize OS X and offer a tighter integration of the OS and hardware.

Fastfoward to the iPhone and similar things are happening with iOS and android. iOS tends to offer better battery life because Apple can optimize the code for their hardware but Google keeps things generic for the phone makers to customize.

In the end, that comment is about advantages of apple's closed hardware/software ecosystem and less about being responsible for buggy apps.

 

[macfacts]

No, it means they design the hardware and OS. They do not design other people's applications or are responsible for other developer's applications for having bugs.

...

That is my point: They are they ones in control of the OS.

Those 32bit apps work perfectly fine in ios 10. It is Apple removing 32bit support from the OS and people are blaming devs for not updating their apps, insane.

If Apple removed the Metal framework support in a future version of iOS and lots of games break, it also wouldn't be Apple's fault? Those devs should update to OpenGL?

I think people that paid $5 for a game from years ago, are expecting too much if they want the dev to update to 64bit. I also think people that paid $650 yearly to Apple are giving them a free pass.

Another phrase I see a lot is, "I have too much invested in Apple's ecosystem to switch to android." Some of that investment is in the form of paid games and apps that are 32bit only. If Apple wants to destroy part of people's investment, it is going to be easier to switch.

 

[masotime]

That is my point: They are they ones in control of the OS.

Those 32bit apps work perfectly fine in ios 10. It is Apple removing 32bit support from the OS and people are blaming devs for not updating their apps, insane.

To me this is somewhat similar to Apple removing the headphone jack and Touch ID - both are things that works "perfectly fine" but Apple chose to remove it anyway. Simply because Apple controls stuff doesn't mean they are obliged to maintain backward compatibility, and if they feel that their product suffers for maintaining backward compatibility, it's their decision as well, as is the case here.

I will agree that it would be nice if Apple had a way to retain backward compatibility by allowing older devices to indefinitely "downgrade" to iOS 10, but 4 years is plenty of leeway for developers to update their apps. Apple simply doesn't want to go down the path of Windows XP and be forever beholden to keep maintaining an ancient operating system.

Seriously if you're not happy just drop Apple devices. This trend will continue with Apple, it is how they do things - they might actually e.g. remove Metal in favour of Metal 2 in the future (maybe 3 years later?) and personally I would be fine with it. I would be sad with some apps that might be lost, but if demand is high enough someone will make a new version, even if it isn't the original developer.

You don't seem to be as forgiving, and would rather things done your way, so it's best to stick with more Samsung stuff like your Tab S and Note 3 where the OS doesn't get upgraded....

 

[maflynn]

Those 32bit apps work perfectly fine in ios 10. It is Apple removing 32bit support from the OS and people are blaming devs for not updating their apps, insane.

They didn't remove 32bit from iOS 10. If you have apps that are not compatible to iOS 11, then don't upgrade. iOS 10 has been notifying users about this for some time.

If Apple removed the Metal framework support in a future version of iOS and lots of games break, it also wouldn't be Apple's fault? Those devs should update to OpenGL?

If Appled offered no communications, warnings or information, then yes Apple would be to blame, but Apple started developers in 2014 about this. 2014 and yet in 2017 its now Apple's fault because they fulfilled their promise

I think people that paid $5 for a game from years ago, are expecting too much if they want the dev to update to 64bit. I also think people that paid $650 yearly to Apple are giving them a free pass.

How are people giving apple a pass. They did everything they could but update the apps themselves. There's got to be some level of personal responsibility, whether we're talking about developers or consumers.

I will agree that it would be nice if Apple had a way to retain backward compatibility by allowing older devices to indefinitely "downgrade" to iOS 10

I agree downgrading would be a nice option