Do iPad users still want FLASH?

[Carouser]

Bottom line is, you cant see a lot of content. Mostly, this is centered around things like hotel sites, restaurant sites, if you ever travel internationally most sites all over the world are written in flash still, so *shrug* i really have no more to add - you can rationalize anything but bottom line you're missing out on tons of content. This is fact.

That's funny, I addressed your point before you made it the second time:

So your argument is 'a device which won't run Flash won't let you use Flash websites'? Really? Do you think any of the discussion in this thread hinges on that point? Do you see many posts saying "naw, my iPad can run all this Flash stuff just fine, you are all wrong if you say it can't"?

You've taken a premise which everyone in the thread has agreed on since the first post ("The iPad won't display Flash content") yet you assert this premise as though it's some kind of iron-clad conclusion that others fail to recognize.

 

[radiogoober]

You've taken a premise which everyone in the thread has agreed on since the first post ("The iPad won't display Flash content") yet you assert this premise as though it's some kind of iron-clad conclusion that others fail to recognize.

That's so true!

I guess he's arguing with himself.

 

[bpaluzzi]

Bottom line is, you cant see a lot of content. Mostly, this is centered around things like hotel sites, restaurant sites, if you ever travel internationally most sites all over the world are written in flash still, so *shrug* i really have no more to add - you can rationalize anything but bottom line you're missing out on tons of content. This is fact.

I don't think you understand what the word "fact" means.
"Most sites all over the world are written in flash still" - that was NEVER, EVER the case, even when Flash was at its peak. It was NEVER the majority technology on the web. Anywhere.

 

[FloatingBones]

For me, I can't access certain sites on my iPad, Full stop! My android runs it all, my PC runs it all.

Nope. Your android can't run it all. Your PC can't run it all, either. We deconstructed @darngooddesign's definition of "full web experience" a long time back in this thread.

This is mostly related to Restaurants and Hotels - scroll a few posts up and see that someone agreed with that. Does it mean their site sucks? Maybe, but its the only way i can get through and book a table or room or whatever.

False. There are plenty of ways to book hotel rooms. Chains and purchase sites (like priceline.com) offer iOS apps.

So when i want to book something for me and my friends i can't access it on my ipad. Let me say it again; the ipad can't do it. Right? Do you need to argue about that? it can't do it. It just can't run it. IT CANT SUPPORT THE CONTENT

A smart iPad user would then go to sites that CAN SUPPORT THE CONTENT. For those sites that are still not Flash-free, they will either get the clue, or they will go out of business.

Flame me all you want - but this is a limitation of the ipad, and apple's iOS! Full stop! Everything you throw at me just reinforces that yes you are a fanboy!

Why do you presume that Apple didn't realize this up front? They knew there would be a multi-year transition period where Flash got purged from mainstream websites. After the transition has flipped, we will all enjoy the benefits of a Flash-free internet.

BTW, do you have any thought for the limitations that Flash imposes for accessibility-challenged users? Do you realize that Apple's bold decision will benefit ALL accessibility-challenged users -- whether or not they ever use Apple computers?

If Apple wasn't at war with Adobe, they'd cater to both crowds, you dont need your stability or battery life "compromised" if there is an on/off switch on your settings for safari on your ipad. Both camps could be served. Instead, Apple is forcing Adobe out of the market.

You look like somebody who has never read the memo. It also looks like you have never read what Adobe marketing said last fall about Flash and HTML. John Nack is clear: Flash is not bound to its current delivery mechanism. Years ago, they used the Java runtime environment to deliver flash. Imagine that!

And you guys are waving the flag, thats cool. Best of luck..

All the chatter about waving the fans and fanboys does nothing to advance your argument.

I also miss flash for the AMG website. I am waiting for the new C63 coupe and I cannot view their website from my iPad.

http://www.mercedes-amg.com/?lang=usa#/home

Um, there's a Mercedes AMG app in the App Store. Does that do what you want?
Perhaps it does more than the website.

Yes I want it. My kids use the iPad and there's a TON of under 10 aged content that's available only in flash. Maybe recent staffing changes at apple will start to open flash and blu-ray on apple products.

Oh, dear. Are people really thinking this way, or is it a troll?

The reasons for keeping iOS had nothing to do with one individual at Apple. Ditto for blu-ray. It would be foolish to presume that Apple will alter either of these strategic decisions.

 

[radiogoober]

Um, there's a Mercedes AMG app in the App Store. Does that do what you want?
Perhaps it does more than the website.

Good catch!

There's a number of Mercedes apps, and there's even an app SPECIFICALLY for the C63 that the poster was asking about.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mercedes-benz-c63-amg-app/id293669215?mt=8

I also miss flash for the AMG website. I am waiting for the new C63 coupe and I cannot view their website from my iPad.

http://www.mercedes-amg.com/?lang=usa#/home

There's an app for that.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mercedes-benz-c63-amg-app/id293669215?mt=8

 

[JBazz]

Um, there's a Mercedes AMG app in the App Store. Does that do what you want?
Perhaps it does more than the website.

Nope. But keep guessing.

----------

Good catch!

There's a number of Mercedes apps, and there's even an app SPECIFICALLY for the C63 that the poster was asking about.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mercedes-benz-c63-amg-app/id293669215?mt=8




There's an app for that.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mercedes-benz-c63-amg-app/id293669215?mt=8

Nope. Keep guessing.

I want to BUILD a new C63 and have it show all options available. On the website, you can build and send to your local dealer. The app does nothing close. But I guess some how people will tell me what I need because they want to argue they know more than me about what I want? LOL Yall are just plan silly.

----------

And while we are at it, I want to be able to design custom Gelaskins for my idevices on my ipad also, which I cant.

http://gelaskins.com/create

(please note emphasis on above before telling me there is an app for something I didnt say I wanted)

 

[richardmu]

I hit many sites in the UK that require FLASH.

It's a pain but I live with it because I love the iPad.

The BBC had an interesting slide show today showing the building of the Twin Towers that needed FLASH. Watched it on my mac mini but would have preferred to watch it on the iPad. This is a problem all the time over here.

I'm trying to pick up a cheap HP Touchpad which may address this issue. Still far too expensive on ebay at the moment.

 

[88 King]

I 100% agree, its really annoying the ipad can not play Flash videos on BBC news site, have to use my laptop instead.

This is one of the reason I'll never own IOS only devices in my house. The hardware is more than capable to play Flash contents, Just give us Flash with ON and OFF option.

 

[radiogoober]

I 100% agree, its really annoying the ipad can not play Flash videos on BBC news site, have to use my laptop instead.

This is one of the reason I'll never own IOS only devices in my house. The hardware is more than capable to play Flash contents, Just give us Flash with ON and OFF option.

That's so strange, because I'm streaming videos from BBC News in the BBC News App right now.

 

[richardmu]

The BBC News app is okay except that it is extremely limited regards content compared with the main BBC website.

I hardly bother to use it because of this.

 

[FloatingBones]

I want to BUILD a new C63 and have it show all options available.

Do you realize that whoever owns this Flash code could cross-compile it and release it as an iOS app?

Did you contact the website about this and ask them if they would release the code that way?

On the website, you can build and send to your local dealer. The app does nothing close. But I guess some how people will tell me what I need because they want to argue they know more than me about what I want?

No. We have a "can do" attitude with our computers. We know that many people haven't figured out just how many quality apps are out there.

I also know that a large percentage of Flash developers have absolutely no idea that they can package and submit their Flash code as an iOS app. For applications like you describe, it seems like a slam-dunk win-win scenario for the vendors to release their apps that way.

That will buy the website some time until they go completely Flash-free.

LOL Yall are just plan silly.

Perhaps. A little silliness is a good thing.

And while we are at it, I want to be able to design custom Gelaskins for my idevices on my ipad also, which I cant.

That is rather silly of them to not create an iOS Flash app for that purpose.

As far as I can tell, all of the "build your XXX" apps should be doable in an HTML/Javascript/CSS world. The stuff I've seen with the Flash-free Google Body seems at least as complicated as anything happening in those "build your own" apps. Displaying cars should be easy; things like the patterns on the gelaskins might be a bit harder.

One of the car vendors will crack this, and then all of them will soon follow.

(please note emphasis on above before telling me there is an app for something I didnt say I wanted)

Since you know what you want and you seem to know how to go to the App Store, you could just say, "Yes, I looked in the app store and none of the apps by the vendor did what I wanted."

You could also tell us what happens when you ask the vendor to serve up his Flash code in the iOS App Store, OK?

The BBC News app is okay except that it is extremely limited regards content compared with the main BBC website.

I hardly bother to use it because of this.

Have you contacted BBC and asked them why their iOS app is so damn limited?
Is there some good reason why they have their website more capable than their App? There doesn't seem any good reason for that -- especially if they could just package their Flash code into iOS.

I keep seeing the same thing time and time again in this thread: many of the Flash-advocates seem more interested in finding and complaining about a problem than being part of the the solution. They don't realize that lots of website owners are ignorant about how to leverage their existing code base and that a few well-placed contacts can make all of the difference.

....or maybe I've got it backwards. Maybe the users actually prefer for these sources to have problems being playable/runnable on their iOS devices.

 

[radiogoober]

The BBC News app is okay except that it is extremely limited regards content compared with the main BBC website.

I hardly bother to use it because of this.

Yeah, I dug deeper into it and it seems to only have the latest stories in each of the topics it carries. That is pretty dang limited. They need to step up their game.

 

[JBazz]

Do you realize that whoever owns this Flash code could cross-compile it and release it as an iOS app?

Did you contact the website about this and ask them if they would release the code that way?



No. We have a "can do" attitude with our computers. We know that many people haven't figured out just how many quality apps are out there.

I also know that a large percentage of Flash developers have absolutely no idea that they can package and submit their Flash code as an iOS app. For applications like you describe, it seems like a slam-dunk win-win scenario for the vendors to release their apps that way.

That will buy the website some time until they go completely Flash-free.



Perhaps. A little silliness is a good thing.



That is rather silly of them to not create an iOS Flash app for that purpose.

As far as I can tell, all of the "build your XXX" apps should be doable in an HTML/Javascript/CSS world. The stuff I've seen with the Flash-free Google Body seems at least as complicated as anything happening in those "build your own" apps. Displaying cars should be easy; things like the patterns on the gelaskins might be a bit harder.

One of the car vendors will crack this, and then all of them will soon follow.



Since you know what you want and you seem to know how to go to the App Store, you could just say, "Yes, I looked in the app store and none of the apps by the vendor did what I wanted."

You could also tell us what happens when you ask the vendor to serve up his Flash code in the iOS App Store, OK?

And why are you telling me how to phrase my own arguments? First yall are telling me what I should want in my iPad. And then yall are telling me there is an app that doesnt fit my needs but you feel I should somehow be pacified by it and then you resort to telling me how I should phrase something?

Do you see the trend here? I am a whole person. I am fully capable of understanding what I need or want from my consumer electronics. And I have never told anyone else what they should want nor have I ridiculed their wants/needs.

 

[*LTD*]

Yes I want it. My kids use the iPad and there's a TON of under 10 aged content that's available only in flash. Maybe recent staffing changes at apple will start to open flash and blu-ray on apple products.

You're in the minority. Won't happen. There's a reason there's no Flash on iOS devices. Since the tremendous success of iOS devices has rendered the Flash issue totally moot, Apple has no reason to suddenly implement Flash. Flash is now an answer to a question no one asked.

The non-availablity of Flash is actually a) part of the success formula, and b) pushing us towards a better standard.

If you miss Flash so much, then buy them non-iOS device and get rid of the iPad. I'm sure your kids won't mind. Care to try?

 

[nickbarbs]

this thread is just flamebait.

Obviously there are several of us that would like flash support on the ipad in this thread, and i'm sure many more out there that use ipads but dont come nerd rage on forums.

So rage all you want. Demand is still there, and it remains to be seen what will happen to flash and even Apple.

 

[Carouser]

Obviously there are several of us that would like flash support on the ipad in this thread, and i'm sure many more out there that use ipads but dont come nerd rage on forums.

Yeah, there's people who would like Flash support. Since this isn't in dispute, maybe you could say how it's germane to what anybody has written in the thread? Nobody's 'nerd raging'; plenty of people have taken the time to respond to others with reason and evidence.

So rage all you want. Demand is still there, and it remains to be seen what will happen to flash and even Apple.

Well if other devices with Flash support are any indication, demand for Flash has fairly insignificant consequences compared to other considerations.

Vague generalizations like 'nobody knows what the future will bring' don't mean much.

 

[miamialley]

"Nerd rage" is my new favorite phrase.

 

[ABCDEFGHIJKLMAO]

Camera flash?
haha...

Yeah i still want to have flash for both my camera and web browser, but not a big issue without them

 

[darngooddesign]

Nope. Your android can't run it all. Your PC can't run it all, either. We deconstructed @darngooddesign's definition of "full web experience" a long time back in this thread.

You like to think that you did.

The reason why this thread is ten pages long is that the common definition of full-web includes Flash.

How do you know his pc and android can't run certain sites?

As far as I can tell, all of the "build your XXX" apps should be doable in an HTML/Javascript/CSS world. The stuff I've seen with the Flash-free Google Body seems at least as complicated as anything happening in those "build your own" apps. Displaying cars should be easy; things like the patterns on the gelaskins might be a bit harder.

So what it comes down to is you don't actually know what can and can't be done with alternatives. You keep talking about Adobe's cross compilers, which according to their info a week ago, are incapable of handling actionscript code and any advanced animation techniques.

What's awesome is that your latest solution, Google Body, doesn't even work in Safari 5.1. I tried to load it and I get "Google Body uses WebGL, a new standard for 3D on the Web. Your browser supports WebGL, but WebGL is not initializing properly." However, if it were built in Flash it would just work regardless of which Flash enabled browser you used. So here we have a new web technology that can't be accessed in all browsers, does that sound like anything else you are against?

 

[Carouser]

The reason why this thread is ten pages long is that the common definition of full-web includes Flash.

I believe that his point is that such a definition is circular and self-serving and doesn't clarify anything. Maybe you could reply to this which I posted earlier:

If I understand the situation, people who rely on accessibility solutions cannot access "the full-web" because of Flash. Flash's inability to work with accessibility is what prevents there being anything like "the full-web" which everyone could in principle access. There is only a fractured web. Flash keeps the web's user-base fractured, independently of any concerns about it being available in iOS Safari or not. I'm sure FloatingBones can confirm or qualify this.

A device which could access 'the full web' would have to be some kind of universal decoder. This doesn't exist, because there is no such thing as 'the full web', only overlapping sets of content. These sets are defined by what is necessary to access them. Flash generates additional sets and therefore additional fractures in web content. With the removal of Flash and anything else which is a barrier to entry, this will reduce the number of sets, approaching something which is like a full web.

 

[darngooddesign]

This is why I didn't define full-web as a whole thing...there are too many technologies at play. All I said was that the full-web currently includes Flash.

Flash does have inherent issues with accessibility, many can be solved. This is a good primer. http://webaim.org/techniques/flash/. Ironically iOS' lack of Flash has further fractured the web.

I suspect FloatingBones is currently researching why his Google-Body Flash alternative that totally could be used to replace GelaSkins Flash element doesn't work in Safari.

 

[nickbarbs]

I believe that his point is that such a definition is circular and self-serving and doesn't clarify anything. Maybe you could reply to this which I posted earlier:



A device which could access 'the full web' would have to be some kind of universal decoder. This doesn't exist, because there is no such thing as 'the full web', only overlapping sets of content. These sets are defined by what is necessary to access them. Flash generates additional sets and therefore additional fractures in web content. With the removal of Flash and anything else which is a barrier to entry, this will reduce the number of sets, approaching something which is like a full web.

I'm sorry have we regressed in technology?

A universal decoder? Can we no longer operate browsers with plugin support? couldnt this be possible via some sort of clever programing, based on technology we have had for years?

These tablets have 512-1gb of ram.. these are now pcs

Dont tell me you need a universal decoder doohicky when you could just add this to the browser. Can you read what you're writing, if safari had flash support it pretty much would be a universal decoder and imagine if apple added plugin support on top of that.

This isn't rocket science. Honestly. Do me a favor remind me what the point of this thread is - "Do ipad users still want Flash". The answer is yes, some do. and yes, some don't.

 

[FloatingBones]

You like to think that you did.

These childish taunts are highly unprofessional. Cut it out.

You offered this definition of "full web experience":

1. Full interent is not marketing, it is the entire internet. Its viewing any site you want without having to resort to work arounds.

Is that the definition you think you can defend?

How do you know his pc and android can't run certain sites?

Because there are all sorts of highly-segmented, proprietary, and even obsolete code floating around the web.

@darn: we already went around this when we deconstructed your definition above. Do we really need to do it again?

Perhaps the reason the discussion is 10 pages long is that some are not operating in an intellectually honest fashion in here.

So what it comes down to is you don't actually know what can and can't be done with alternatives. You keep talking about Adobe's cross compilers, which according to their info a week ago, are incapable of handling actionscript code and any advanced animation techniques.

What's your point? I'm clear that none of those "build your automobile" apps need any of those advanced capabilities. Do you think they're needed?

What's awesome is that your latest solution, Google Body, doesn't even work in Safari 5.1. I tried to load it and I get "Google Body uses WebGL, a new standard for 3D on the Web. Your browser supports WebGL, but WebGL is not initializing properly." However, if it were built in Flash it would just work regardless of which Flash enabled browser you used.

This response points to what's happening here.

You seem to be angry about something, @Darn. AFAICT, you think that you are entitled to be able to run your Flash website http://darngooddesign.com on every computer, including iOS computers.

That presumption was a mistake. Flash fails on supporting adaptability, and that's reason enough to flush it as a protocol.

@Darn: Flash will never run on iOS machines. It never has run there, and it never will. The only real question: how much longer are you going to continue to complain about it?

Dont tell me you need a universal decoder doohicky when you could just add this to the browser. Can you read what you're writing, if safari had flash support it pretty much would be a universal decoder and imagine if apple added plugin support on top of that.

In other words, stick a turing machine into the web browser and anything is possible?

This isn't rocket science. Honestly. Do me a favor remind me what the point of this thread is - "Do ipad users still want Flash". The answer is yes, some do. and yes, some don't.

...and some have no idea about the nature of the problem.

Do you realize that Flash and accessibility are mutually exclusive? Do you understand why?

 

[nickbarbs]

thanks Nostradamus, but the French say, never say never..

your posts are quite condescending and somewhat rude. But simply put, many of us find we load websites and can't view them on the ipad. We have to put down the ipad and fire up the android and or pc. This is what's happening today when we use the device.

Not looking for a 10 page rant from you about why i'm wrong or i should write a letter informing the website they need to make apple apps for me.

Bottom line is, this happens often that we can't view the website we want to on our Ipads. To me, and a few others here. So, when are you going to stop denying it on our behalf? its a limited device, today, right now, and we deal with this quite often. Sometimes I logmeinignition to my PC just to deal. So yeah we do find workarounds, but it is not convenient to deal with.

And yes, my android runs every site i've thrown at it so far. You can't write 10 pages telling me otherwise.

 

[Carouser]

I'm sorry have we regressed in technology?

A universal decoder? Can we no longer operate browsers with plugin support? couldnt this be possible via some sort of clever programing, based on technology we have had for years?

These tablets have 512-1gb of ram.. these are now pcs

Dont tell me you need a universal decoder doohicky when you could just add this to the browser. Can you read what you're writing, if safari had flash support it pretty much would be a universal decoder and imagine if apple added plugin support on top of that.

This isn't rocket science. Honestly. Do me a favor remind me what the point of this thread is - "Do ipad users still want Flash". The answer is yes, some do. and yes, some don't.

You've missed all the points about how Flash is incompatible with accessibility solutions. Putting a Flash decoder in the browser doesn't solve those problems and ensures that many will never be able to access that content. Dumping Flash is the optimal solution. The fact that some people want Flash is trivial since everyone knows that and it's been recognized since the first post.

EDIT: You did it again in your most recent post. Let me spell it out for you: Everyone in the thread knows Safari in iOS won't run Flash. Everyone knows some people want Flash. This is clear to everyone; it's not what is being discussed.

@Darn - I would rather remove barriers to entry than work around them. People who want their web sites viewed by as many as possible agree. Your definition that 'full web' includes Flash but ignores other trchnologies is simply selective reasoning. "full web isn't a whole thing but includes Flash" seems self-serving to me.