I just felt like there was nothing to address in your post. It was all completely assumptive and speculative. I really don't see the point in engaging in a 5 page debate with you about "points" that you simply pulled out of thin air. You're completely entitled to your opinion, however far off base it may be.
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Do iPad users still want FLASH?
- Thread starter ehoez
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I just felt like there was nothing to address in your post. It was all completely assumptive and speculative. I really don't see the point in engaging in a 5 page debate with you about "points" that you simply pulled out of thin air. You're completely entitled to your opinion, however far off base it may be.
I literally have really missed having flash on either my iPad 1 and now my iPad 2 only ONCE. When i wanted to place an order for a custom bag from Timbuk2 which required Flash.
Considering the sales of iPad that do not run flash vs the sale of Android tablets that supposedly do, I would say for most people it's a non issue.
Considering the sales of iPad that do not run flash vs the sale of Android tablets that supposedly do, I would say for most people it's a non issue.
Any developer who programs a site that requires Flash to order or checkout should be taken out and immediately shot.
different strokes for differnet folks.
Bottom line is there is a lot of content out there in Flash still and you aint seein it on your ipad.
So, call it what you will, but the ipad browser just can't hang with everything right now.
If you deny this keep kidding yourself - by all means
Bottom line is there is a lot of content out there in Flash still and you aint seein it on your ipad.
So, call it what you will, but the ipad browser just can't hang with everything right now.
If you deny this keep kidding yourself - by all means
"Bottom line" is most people don't care on mobile. Less than 5% of Android users have cared enough to install Flash. Why should those of us who choose not to use Flash have a worse experience because of the 5% who do?
Yikes. I haven't encountered that. I agree with you though. I'll extend it a little further: Any developer, who from this day forward, creates *anything* in Flash, should be taken out and immediately shot.
What do you think about pages that direct you to iOS specific pages? I've had good and bad experiences. Ie, when I buy something on eBay, and go to pay for it via PayPal, I love the iPad version of the site. I think it's super user friendly and looks nice. But I've seen other iOS specific pages and just wish it wouldn't force me to look at them.
You sure seem adamant about wanting people to have the same love affair for Flash that you do. Sorry. Whatever particular world view you have is not shared by everyone else. You are free to feel however you want, but belittling people and insulting them won't convince them.
The fact of the matter is that I haven't missed *any* web content due to no Flash on my iPad. Every time I've been on a website and wanted to watch a video, it's already in H264. I haven't run into any issues. You see, the developers of these big sites are smart. They know that there are so many damn millions of iOS devices out there, and they *want* their content to be seen. They know it's wise to get rid of flash and put it into a format that their viewers can appreciate. And I'm reaping the benefits of this fact.
The only websites that still only support Flash must be crappy local sites, with poor, extremely short sighted developers. I haven't ran into any that I needed.
So, yeah, as much as you are dying for someone to say "OMG FLASH RULES I WISH IPAD HAD IT" the fact is that Flash is on its way out the door. In probably six months we can bury Flash along side the HP TouchPad, the Galaxy Tab, all of Asus' funny little tablets, WebOS, and every other minor player in the industry.
55% of statistics are made up?
Just to share from my personal experience, a buddy of mine bought an ipad 2 after playing with mine, he doesnt know about tech that much and he called me asking why he can't install flash on it to view this or that site.. i explained to him that this is just apple's thing..
And I got an Ipad 2 for my 70 year old father's birthday. Was over at the flat this weekend and went through my regular tech support routine. He tells me hey son this website doesnt work take a look - he loads up the website and sees CLICK HERE TO INSTALL FLASH! and he keeps touching it and nothing happens. I explain to him also this is just apple's world, flash doenst work. His response was, what the hell i thought this was the best device on the market. I also had to explain to him he can't realy do anything with most of the file attachements he's recieving in his email because there's no file system available on the ipad.
He likes it overall because it does everything else well especially for reading but he is convinced that long term people will catch on and be irritated by this closed system of apples. This is coming from a 70 year old man complaining to me that its missing certain functions.
Different strokes for different folks. This is macrumors so it's expected to have a higher percentage of fanboys. But personally - I would prefer to have the choice, and a toggle to turn it on or off.
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Look. I'm not insulting or belittling anyone. My major point here is, you're missing out on a good chunk of content online with no flash support. My other point is, Apple should respect customers enough to offer a toggle to turn it on or off.
your comment that the only websites that still only support flash are crappy is pretty much baseless and short sighted. And I dont have a love affair with flash, I have a love affair with choice and more open platforms. I couldnt care less about flash, but it is very annoying when i browse to a site and find that i need to pull out my android phone or my PC to view it.
Thats all I'm saying. Just as you're saying, your view is not supported by everyone else. If history is an indication, closed platforms do well initially but eventually get stomped by competition that allows a variety of choice and hardware.
Remember; this is a new market, and apple is enjoying first mover advantage among other things. Sooner or later, I predict they will have to give a bit more flexiblity on their platforms to keep up with consumer demands.
To clarify... a Flash app was required in order to build / design the custom bag. If you choose a "off the shelf" style no Flash is involved.
Maybe read the thread instead of posting your knee-jerk reaction.
http://www.adobe.com/flashplatform/certified_devices/
As I posted before, Adobe claims that Flash has only been downloaded 7.5 million times on Android Market. Considering 150 million to 200 million Android devices have been sold, that's less than 5% of Android users that care enough to download Flash. (Yes, they could have downloaded it from another source, but I haven't seen any evidence that other markets have a significant share.)
And again, why should those of us who choose not to use Flash have a worse experience because of the 5% who do?
Look goob, I am a "professional" also. I don't play any games online.
Just this week alone I couldn't view a restaurant site and web sites where I was researching cars (factory sites). You guys just cover your ears and keep humming.
I just want to be able to view all web content. You guys don't.
I'd like to upload a pic now, but I can't using my iPad. I guess that's not a limitation either.
Really? Really? Your grandpa, who is such a luddite that he doesn't understand Flash being installed, etc, gives his "expert technical analysis" of Apple's "closed systems" and likelihood of success in a market that they are absolutely completely dominating? Yeah, I care about as much of your grandfather's anecdotes as I do about what color his poop is.
More insults. Why do you have to resort to calling people "fanboys" simply because they do not agree with your opinion?
1. You keep telling me that I'm "missing out on a good chunk of content online" by not having Flash. What am I missing out on? I visit many major news sites every day, and I have absolutely no problems with any of them. Sometimes when I'm drinking at night I can load up the USTREAM app and watch Anthony Cumia's "Live From The Compound." I email. I play fantastic games. I use RSS. I browse several forums and buy garbage on eBay all day. I've never encountered this "huge chunk of content" that I can't access.
I will concede this: I have had a couple of websites that check my "user agent" and force me to use Firefox or Internet Explorer (I haven't even seen IE in years), which sucks really bad.
Actually, my comments aren't baseless. A long time ago, in a thread far far away, someone posted three links they use every day which were Flash and the iPad couldn't support. Two of those websites had specific iPad apps for them, and the other was some crappy local news site. Some local news sites, some local crappy restaurants, and other crappy websites still only support flash, apparently. Who knows. I never visit those types of sites.... because they're crap.
Any quality website will not necessitate Flash. It is true. Any quality website will have a quality design team that wants its content displayed. Let me issue you a challenge. Can you find any MAJOR website, that is like one of the biggest, most important, and most used sites on the internet, that only supports Flash and cannot be seen on an iPad? I'm sure there are some (many?). But I don't know of any. Can you list any? I just checked the top ten websites on Alexa and they all don't necessitate Flash.
Oh please. Tablet computing devices have been around for many, many years. It's just that Apple took the market from clunky turds to sexy devices. Baseless speculation.
How dare you support your statements with facts!!!
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Yes, that is a limitation. One that I've found frustrating as hell. I've never used the TapATalk app, but I believe that for forums that support it, it allows uploading images. It would be nice if one day they could have the upload thing look through the photo album. I agree, this is frustrating.
That's the thing about statistics, you have to use common sense with them. The number of Android devices discussed should not include early devices running less than 2.0 (in that I wouldn't include 3G and 2G phones in discussion of who likes iOS4), Android devices without access to the marketplace like the Nook Color, devices Flash does not support, or devices that came with Flash preinstalled like all of the Droid Xs deployed in my office. Those numbers change considerably once you filter them through your common sense; it's hard to say how much those numbers change because a comprehensive breakdown to all of this variables doesn't exist.
If by worse experience you mean system resources then set it to on demand; if you mean not viewing most of the Internet because of Flash sites then it would mean a better experience for those of us who want it.
I'm not in the uk but ive seen posted many times that the BBC iPlayer app only shows a portion of their content compared to their flash based site.
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Several alternatives for viewing videos have been spelled out in this discussion, and I do agree: the world will be a better place when all videos are viewable on all computers.
I'm hoping the quarter-billion Flash-free iOS device threshold will be a wake-up call for sites that are not yet Flash-free. Continuing to have content that is only viewable with Flash will have an increasingly negative impact on their business. I'll repeat something I've said before: this is a tremendous business opportunity for Adobe developers to go into those businesses and create a solution that will work Flash-free.
What is Yahoo doing to get revenue for games that users play on their website? Why wouldn't that same revenue model work if they cross-built their games for iOS?
If that revenue model doesn't work, how about a different one? $2 or $3 for a game that someone regularly plays wouldn't be too steep, right?
I agree with this strategy: this will be the solution to expunging Flash from the mainstream web. One thing I would add is to contact business that are relying on Flash and tell them that a quarter-billion Apple handheld computers cannot access their website -- let them know there's a problem. You could even tell them that Adobe themselves is recommending they ditch their Flash code and go with an HTML-only solution.
I do this with businesses I care about, and I'm gentle when I tell them this. I presume the sites had some consultant or outside business give them the Flash code. Flash on websites might have made good business sense a few years ago, but those days have passed.
I look it from the other side:
The bottom line is that there are a whole bunch of handheld computers -- over a quarter of a billion -- that ain't seein your Flash-only content on their iPad/iPhone/iPod Touch. So, call it what you will, but your business website just can't hang with everyone right now. There's a quarter-billion hole in your website strategy. If you deny this keep kidding yourself - by all means.
Oops. BaldiMac is right: the hole is a lot bigger than a quarter-billion devices. Many Android devices are also Flash-free -- although the exact number is far more difficult to quantify. And @BaldiMac has been careful to note that some Android users could be getting Flash through alternative distribution channels.
I think it's safe to say that there are over 100,000,000 Android devies that are also Flash-free.
Such iOS-specific pages are also failing to recognize the growing number of laptop and desktop users that are also going Flash-free. Flash is not shipped with OS X Lion; many users will not go and manually install the software. Other users have gone back and removed Adobe products from their Macs and PCs. And what about @BaldiMac's observation that many Android users have never ever installed Flash?
Whether or not the landing page is competent, assuming that iOS devices are the only ones that are Flash-free sounds like a terrible idea. IMHO, sites that provide an HTML solution should go ahead and use it everywhere.
You could have answered a completely different way:
- Based on all sorts of measures, he has indeed gotten the best device on the market.
- Apple could have included Flash, but Flash has all sorts of problems on handheld devices. My point is that you've set up your father to think that everything would have been perfect if Apple had just included Flash; and that just ain't so.
- Computers are designed to work together with standards, and they don't always work together.
Goodreader should be able to handle virtually any attachment that your father gets in e-mail. Please get a copy installed on his machine.
If Flash really is important to him, you can try one of the Flash intermediaries discussed here. I wouldn't bother, but YMMV.
I think you came in with a particular attitude and your attitude leaked onto him. You could just as well have come in with a "can do" attitude, too.
Philosophically, you may feel that the functions in Goodreader (or other read-everything apps) should be provided by Apple. I think a strong case could be made for that. As a practical matter, the simple solution is to just spend the $4.99 for this software.
I don't know how you define a fanboy. FWIW, I have yet to find a single person who agrees with every decision made by Apple. In any case, what you will find on macrumors who have knowledge, enthusiasm, and a "can do" attitude about solving problems.
My main sadness is that you left your father with a different attitude, and that will affect how he uses his machine and the internet in general. The good news: nothing is permanent and you can alter that perception. Getting goodreader (or one of the other read-anything iOS apps) for him would be a great start.
HTH.
I considered all that. Which is why I used the low end estimate of 150 million to compute the percentage. How would you change the numbers? Or are you just throwing out FUD? Does the argument really change that much if we are talking about 10%? or 15%?
Eh I dont find it worth arguing about, folks like goober accuse me of insulting when he's the one literally insulting.. look through the history he's throwing insult after insult accusing me of doing what he's doing. I'll bet he's a conservative republican, they share the same technique for arguing. Whats the point in this conversation honestly? Clearly, we will not agree.
For me, I can't access certain sites on my iPad, Full stop! My android runs it all, my PC runs it all.
This is mostly related to Restaurants and Hotels - scroll a few posts up and see that someone agreed with that. Does it mean their site sucks? Maybe, but its the only way i can get through and book a table or room or whatever.
So when i want to book something for me and my friends i can't access it on my ipad. Let me say it again; the ipad can't do it. Right? Do you need to argue about that? it can't do it. It just can't run it. IT CANT SUPPORT THE CONTENT.
Flame me all you want - but this is a limitation of the ipad, and apple's iOS! Full stop! Everything you throw at me just reinforces that yes you are a fanboy!
If Apple wasn't at war with Adobe, they'd cater to both crowds, you dont need your stability or battery life "compromised" if there is an on/off switch on your settings for safari on your ipad. Both camps could be served. Instead, Apple is forcing Adobe out of the market.
And you guys are waving the flag, thats cool. Best of luck..
For me, I can't access certain sites on my iPad, Full stop! My android runs it all, my PC runs it all.
This is mostly related to Restaurants and Hotels - scroll a few posts up and see that someone agreed with that. Does it mean their site sucks? Maybe, but its the only way i can get through and book a table or room or whatever.
So when i want to book something for me and my friends i can't access it on my ipad. Let me say it again; the ipad can't do it. Right? Do you need to argue about that? it can't do it. It just can't run it. IT CANT SUPPORT THE CONTENT.
Flame me all you want - but this is a limitation of the ipad, and apple's iOS! Full stop! Everything you throw at me just reinforces that yes you are a fanboy!
If Apple wasn't at war with Adobe, they'd cater to both crowds, you dont need your stability or battery life "compromised" if there is an on/off switch on your settings for safari on your ipad. Both camps could be served. Instead, Apple is forcing Adobe out of the market.
And you guys are waving the flag, thats cool. Best of luck..
Rhetorical question: Did you explain to him that the designers of the website wrote it in a way that wouldn't work on the iPad, or were you selective in your description of the problem?
So your argument is 'a device which won't run Flash won't let you use Flash websites'? Really? Do you think any of the discussion in this thread hinges on that point? Do you see many posts saying "naw, my iPad can run all this Flash stuff just fine, you are all wrong if you say it can't"?
Shorter version: "if you reply to me it's proof that you are a fanboy. Also, I'm not the one throwing insults".
This was already discussed in the thread, as was every other point you raised.
Oh, oops. Can you please get me that long list of MAJOR internet sites that don't work on the iPad? I keep hearing about all of this content I'm missing. I'd like to see it. Please?
(P.S. Pretty funny your comment about conservative republicans. If you insult the presidents, the lib democrats call it racism.)
Nobody is arguing this point.
No, it doesn't.
Sure, for the most part. (Of course, there are some content types that you can't access on a PC.)
I haven't used Flash since before there was an iPhone. My decision has nothing to do with Apple. Your "compromise" isn't a compromise. Your way means less content for me. Apple's way means more content for me. It's pretty straightforward argument. Nothing fanboy or irrational about it.
I also miss flash for the AMG website. I am waiting for the new C63 coupe and I cannot view their website from my iPad.
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/?lang=usa#/home
http://www.mercedes-amg.com/?lang=usa#/home
haha i was right wasn't I LOL.
I can't force you guys to see the fallacy of your points, there's always a way to justify one way or the other.
Bottom line is, you cant see a lot of content. Mostly, this is centered around things like hotel sites, restaurant sites, if you ever travel internationally most sites all over the world are written in flash still, so *shrug* i really have no more to add - you can rationalize anything but bottom line you're missing out on tons of content. This is fact.
Just have a look at what poeple are posting above me, about sites for their kids, the mercedes site, I couldnt browse a Watch site yesterday (concord watches), i couldnt book a table at a restaurant in London.
Honestly, not all of us go to www.cnn.com on our ipads and hit refresh all day - but good on you for being in your own worlds
FloatingBones made the best point in this whole thread. For these few ancient websites, restaurants, etc, that still only serve a Flash website, they absolutely need to adapt.
We're past the age of the internet where the server demands that a user run a specific web browser or some buggy adobe software that plays silly animations. We are in the age of the internet where people access content from, literally, hundreds of different types of devices (crappy cell phones, great cell phones, tablets, computers, ipods, refrigerators, cars, etc.)
These websites need to adapt or they will die out. If they can't serve me their content, then they just lost a customer. If I want to buy something, and if it used some crappy Flash thing, I'd simply goto another website, like Amazon, and get it there. And it's not "just me". There are hundreds of millions of iOS devices out there that aren't using any Flash. The vast majority of websites have realized this and got with the times. The few crappy websites that are left over are simply missing out on business.
Flash is old, outdated technology. Adobe is even trying to move past it. I don't know why some users can't. Really strange. They want cutting edge technology, but are holding onto this crap.
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Do me a favor. Record a video of you browsing the Concord Watch website on your Android phone. Show yourself interacting with it and navigating flawlessly around on it.
We're past the age of the internet where the server demands that a user run a specific web browser or some buggy adobe software that plays silly animations. We are in the age of the internet where people access content from, literally, hundreds of different types of devices (crappy cell phones, great cell phones, tablets, computers, ipods, refrigerators, cars, etc.)
These websites need to adapt or they will die out. If they can't serve me their content, then they just lost a customer. If I want to buy something, and if it used some crappy Flash thing, I'd simply goto another website, like Amazon, and get it there. And it's not "just me". There are hundreds of millions of iOS devices out there that aren't using any Flash. The vast majority of websites have realized this and got with the times. The few crappy websites that are left over are simply missing out on business.
Flash is old, outdated technology. Adobe is even trying to move past it. I don't know why some users can't. Really strange. They want cutting edge technology, but are holding onto this crap.
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Do me a favor. Record a video of you browsing the Concord Watch website on your Android phone. Show yourself interacting with it and navigating flawlessly around on it.