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pseudobrit said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate

MSG is good stuff. And you're probably not allergic to it. 99.99% of the population isn't, and I think half of those who are are hypochondriacs.

Well joy I think i am that .01% that could be allergic to it (along with other things) because since my diet of all organic my headaches have gone down. Haven't ended up in the hospital as much and am taking less pain killers than usual.

So MSG is not good stuff, at least for me.
 
eva01 said:
Well joy I think i am that .01% that could be allergic to it (along with other things) because since my diet of all organic my headaches have gone down. Haven't ended up in the hospital as much and am taking less pain killers than usual.

So MSG is not good stuff, at least for me.

If MSG is the problem, then tomatoes and cheese might give you issues.

Could be nitrates. Lots of people have alergies to them. Is red wine a problem? Bacon?
 
MongoTheGeek said:
If MSG is the problem, then tomatoes and cheese might give you issues.

Could be nitrates. Lots of people have alergies to them. Is red wine a problem? Bacon?

I haven't been eating any of that stuff, and i dislike tomatoes as is.
 
It would seem to me that the less chemicals used (therefore the less purchased) and all that would make organic food less expensive.

But it is not really surprising, living in a country where a double cheeseburger is 99 cents and a tiny salad is $3.99.
 
miniConvert said:
I eat organic Weetabix. Dry.


That must taste pretty rank..... Dry weetabix, come on man - i'll give you a loan for some milk ;)
I love shredded wheat or weetabix for breaky but with milk (I buy that 'pure' milk, that is extra filtered... )


I buy good quality meat and veg, which I think are better than the shrink wrapped organic stuff. Although the stuff I buy might be organic by coincidence.

I don't think that cheapo toffee cheesecake ive got in the fridge is organic though :eek:
 
Josh said:
It would seem to me that the less chemicals used (therefore the less purchased) and all that would make organic food less expensive.

But it is not really surprising, living in a country where a double cheeseburger is 99 cents and a tiny salad is $3.99.

Yields are far worse on organics. As for the cheap double cheeseburger, expensive salad, ever see what happens when you freeze lettuce?
 
pseudobrit said:
A peer-reviewed, mainstream medical study conclusively proving its efficacy (like the ones you can find proving that chemotherapy works) would go a long way.

There are none; "alternative medicine" is a billion-dollar industry with no science behind it, only money and marketing. It astounds me that people will pay thousands to get their backs cracked (chiropractic) or for a nice rubdown (massage therapy) and think they're getting medical treatment when there's zero scientific evidence behind it.

It's much the same with organics. Where's the science? I know where the money is.
Who cares where the science is as long as it makes you feel better. I don't go to the chiropractor because I have been blessed with the ability to crack my back whenever I want to. You know what? I never have back problems because when my back starts to hurt I crack it and the pain instantly goes away. Simply put, Don't believe everything you see.

The reason I sometimes buy organic stuff is because it tastes better, at least the fruits and veggies do. Ever had an organic tomato? It makes the grocery stores genetically altered version taste like nothing. Same goes any food that has been altered. The natural stuff always tastes better.
 
I do most of the time, for vegetables, milk, etc. Meat, I go for vegetarian fed, but not usually organic. Trying to find a balance between not eating extra chemicals and paying my mortgage.

Too many chemicals have been deemed safe, only to be condemeed later, so I would rather go to the local farms or Wild Oats and pay a little more for peace of mind.

Its like seatbelts, they don't do a damn thing, UNLESS you happen to be in a car accident. I figure Organic is the safe bet as well.
 
Peterkro said:
Glass takes more energy to make than Aluminium are you sure (I've worked in a Aluminium smelter) the transport costs I would have thought were similar for this type of transport volume not weight is surely the major cost factor.The ingredients for glass are cheaper to buy.Sure glass is breakable but not easily and it doesn't crush.In bottle form glass doesn't have sharp edges.You don't have to recycle glass in the way you do Aluminium just wash and away you go for many cycles.I may be wrong but I'd like to see the figures.

IIRC glassmaking pollutes heavily.
 
QuarterSwede said:
Who cares where the science is as long as it makes you feel better.

I care because there are hucksters out there who are killing people with their illegal and unethical practice of medicine to make a buck. Quacks set up a shroud of doubt around the consumer, they begin to question the legitimacy of the establishment and they're easier to con out of their money.

That's my biggest problem. If you find something that has failed to be proven scientifically effective but makes you feel better then that's fine for you. But I hate seeing people making six figure incomes by scaring people away from real medicine.

I hate it even more that my health insurance premiums end up paying for someone's chiropractic sessions. They might as well be paying for Scientology "audits".
 
Timepass said:
wow you understand of a lot of stuff is just hear say BS. Depending on what is recycle a lot of it cheaper to recycle it instead of wasting space in our land fills. Yeah right now might not be the best or the cheapest way but remember that our resources are limited and we are running out. WHen it gets to that point the only real opition is to recycle it. Metals it is cheaper to recycle it that it is to make new ones. A coke can for example is cheaper and more effecit to recycle the allumin than it is to make new Al.

Um, yeah. Aluminium is cheaper and more efficient to recycle. That's exactly what I said. But I'd like to think mine was somewhat coherent.
 
pseudobrit said:
I hate it even more that my health insurance premiums end up paying for someone's chiropractic sessions. They might as well be paying for Scientology "audits".

do you think the same of massage therapy? just curious
 
I don't buy organic consciously, because I'm just not that hardcore about the complete non-use of manufatured chemicals. I don't want DDT on my apples, but I don't want rust spores on my carrots either or LSD in my wheat, and if they use super-phosphate to help the soil cope then thats fine by me.

As with most of these issues (Save the Whales, GE etc) there are many arguments for and against, and they often get mixed together purely on that basis rather than because they're necessarily related.

When it comes to food, what makes a difference to me (that I can taste) is when the producer cares about their product and knows what they are doing and the shipping/storage requirements of the delivery chain don't conspire against them.

A tomato will not taste good if it is picked green so as to survive shipping without bruising and have a longer ripened shelf life, organic or otherwise. Organic producers (almost by definition) care about their products and as a consequence they sometimes taste better, but this isn't to say they taste better just because they're organic.

The tomatoes I grow myself taste better than any I've ever bought in a store (I don't spray them, but I do use fertilizer), as do those eaten straight from the field at large, commercial, non-organic producers who offer pick-your-own at the end of the season.
 
jelloshotsrule said:
do you think the same of massage therapy? just curious

Massage therapy classes are polluted with holistic quackery. It's a rubdown. Of course it feels good, but it doesn't improve circulation, help ease your migraines, prevent cancer or promote wellness.

Reflexology is another one. "Your stomach hasn't been feeling right? Your pancreas is backed up. Let me rub your feet to cure it."

Now if you meant physical therapy that's a different issue.
 
pseudobrit said:
Massage therapy classes are polluted with holistic quackery. It's a rubdown. Of course it feels good, but it doesn't improve circulation, help ease your migraines, prevent cancer or promote wellness.

Reflexology is another one. "Your stomach hasn't been feeling right? Your pancreas is backed up. Let me rub your feet to cure it."

Now if you meant physical therapy that's a different issue.

Agreed. Two words, Aveda Institute.
 
I prefer to buy organic, but am far from religious about it. I don't like the idea of pesticides being used on my food, but I'm also a poor student and paying double for food can be tough to justify. I guess the only thing that saves me is that I don't spend ridiculous amounts of money on meat products (I'm vegetarian). If I ever go out of my way to buy organic, I make sure I buy from local organic farmers who bring in fresh produce all the time and don't wrap everything in plastic.

Speaking of plastic, plastic bags annoy the Hell out of me. I bring my own cotton bags everywhere with me in my backpack, but some places still insist that I take whatever I buy in a plastic bag. Three problems I have with them:

1) I don't want four hundred bags sitting around in one of my closets.
2) It's an awful waste of plastic that only gets dumped into landfills.
3) If they're heavy, they can be painful on the palms to carry long distances (I walk everywhere).

But back to foods...

Pesticide use will increase yields, but at what cost? In a society where far more food is produced than is necessary (in North America, at least), what's the point of producing even more? How will it affect nearby ecosystems and the environment at large?

Africa is a bit of a different story. Most places in Africa need more food, so, to a certain extent, pesticide use can be better justified. However, that justification itself isn't necessarily the whole answer. Pesticides are expensive, and small-time farmers in Africa can't afford them, which means they can't compete against the already-large producers. This, in turn, serves to widen the gap between the haves and have-nots. So, overall, does that make pesticides beneficial to Africa? How about the world in general?

Taking North American excess produce and shipping it to Africa makes very little sense. Yes, it will feed them in the meantime, but it doesn't address the root of the problem. It is not sustainable and only serves to help citizens and governments pat themselves on the back.

Recycling doesn't make perfect sense at the moment, but throwing it in a landfill sure as Hell doesn't either. I look at recycling from a future perspective...what do we do when we run out of resources? Not going to happen for a long time, but can you imagine the amount of "energy" it would take to sort through all the landfills in the world? Reducing and reusing is definitely the ideal answer, but recycling has to come into the picture eventually. Why not start now so that we can avoid a problem later on? Or, perhaps that's a little too far-sighted for people today.

Pseudobrit, why are you so afraid of anything unorthodox with respect to human health? From pretty much everything else you've ever written on these boards, I've gotten the impression that you're usually very open to unconventional ideas that slip by most people. Just to point out one thing in particular about migraines...there is no one cure-all treatment. Since they have different causes, they have different treatments. Telling someone with migraines that pharmaceutical pills are the only way they can ever hope to rid themselves of migraines is pure bull. I use a form of mental visualisation (related to meditation) to rid myself of headaches and migraines whenever I get them, and it has yet to fail me once. Science doesn't back that up because in its current form, it can't.

Quite often, migraines are stress-related, and massages can work wonders in stress relief. If you disagree, then you're likely either uncomfortable being touched or have never actually had a massage. These days, stress is increasingly being recognised as a "disease" (think, dis-ease) and it's effects are appearing in studies everywhere. Stress is intimately related to individual well-being, and a reduction in it can have quite unexpected consequences.

That said, it's hard to scientifically quantify the inner workings of the human mind. This is one area where science isn't particularly advanced, so it would be expected that science can't always back up the perceived benefits of stress reduction or any sort of poorly understood phenomenon. In short, if it works for you, do it! If not, don't bitch out the people who are fortunate enough to have other options. Who cares if it is just placebo?

Also, since having less stress is a form of wellness, a massage can definitely help with that ;)

EDIT: Pseudobrit, I saved you the trouble of some research...here are the top results on Google for the four issues you had with massages, as they are related to stress. I've already liked an article that relates massages to stress reduction. Search was performed as stress [insert ailment]:

Circulation

Migraines

Cancer

Wellness
 
Sometimes I buy organic. But most of the times I don't because it is more expensive (as I am a poor college student).
 
elfin buddy said:
Pesticide use will increase yields, but at what cost? In a society where far more food is produced than is necessary (in North America, at least), what's the point of producing even more? How will it affect nearby ecosystems and the environment at large?

Africa is a bit of a different story. Most places in Africa need more food, so, to a certain extent, pesticide use can be better justified. However, that justification itself isn't necessarily the whole answer. Pesticides are expensive, and small-time farmers in Africa can't afford them, which means they can't compete against the already-large producers. This, in turn, serves to widen the gap between the haves and have-nots. So, overall, does that make pesticides beneficial to Africa? How about the world in general?

It's easy to look at things from a non-argicultural viewpoint. Farmers operate on razor-thin margins, even in areas of the world where food is abundant. Each of them will feed thousands of us. They cannot afford to lose a harvest to pests in the interest of keeping their fields "natural."

The whole idea of "natural farming" is absurd because the whole idea of farming is unnatural. It's an entirely artificial human technology. Foraging is natural.

Recycling doesn't make perfect sense at the moment, but throwing it in a landfill sure as Hell doesn't either. I look at recycling from a future perspective...what do we do when we run out of resources? Not going to happen for a long time, but can you imagine the amount of "energy" it would take to sort through all the landfills in the world?

There's plenty of landfill space and (as I've pointed out) the energy to sift through someone's "special garbage" can (aka recycling bin) is at least as wasteful and inefficient as sifting through it in a landfill 30 years from now.

Why not start now so that we can avoid a problem later on? Or, perhaps that's a little too far-sighted for people today.

Maybe for the same reason I haven't moved into an old folks' home. I mean, someday I'll be old and might require that type of housing arrangement, so I may well get used to it today, right? Everything has its time. The nation learned how to recycle in less than 20 years. It can be scaled back until we need to start recycling more material and relearned quickly.

Pseudobrit, why are you so afraid of anything unorthodox with respect to human health? From pretty much everything else you've ever written on these boards, I've gotten the impression that you're usually very open to unconventional ideas that slip by most people.

I'm not afraid of unorthodox solutions. I despise the charlatans who prey upon the gaps in science and the fears of the uninformed and trusting public to give them false hope (at best) defraud them of their money, and risk their lives or kill them (at worst) for profit.

Quite often, migraines are stress-related, and massages can work wonders in stress relief. If you disagree, then you're likely either uncomfortable being touched or have never actually had a massage. These days, stress is increasingly being recognised as a "disease" (think, dis-ease) and it's effects are appearing in studies everywhere. Stress is intimately related to individual well-being, and a reduction in it can have quite unexpected consequences.

That said, it's hard to scientifically quantify the inner workings of the human mind. This is one area where science isn't particularly advanced, so it would be expected that science can't always back up the perceived benefits of stress reduction or any sort of poorly understood phenomenon. In short, if it works for you, do it! If not, don't bitch out the people who are fortunate enough to have other options. Who cares if it is just placebo?

Also, since having less stress is a form of wellness, a massage can definitely help with that ;)

EDIT: Pseudobrit, I saved you the trouble of some research...here are the top results on Google for the four issues you had with massages, as they are related to stress. I've already liked an article that relates massages to stress reduction. Search was performed as stress [insert ailment]:

Circulation

Migraines

Cancer

Wellness

"Stress" is something con men love. Find a way to quantify it and they'll have to find another bogeyman to claim they cure. I wonder whatever happened to women experiencing "hysteria"? Or radium water?

Here's why I hate massage therapy (in practice):

The main standard-setting organization for massage therapists is the American Massage Therapy Association (AMTA), which was founded in 1943 and represents about 47,000 massage therapists in 30 countries [10]. AMTA's official publication, Massage Therapy Journal, has four issues per year. Most issues contain articles that advocate quack treatments, and all issues contain ads for dubious courses and products. The second largest professional group, the Associated Bodywork and Massage Professionals (ABMP), has about 37,000 members and publishes an equally low-quality magazine called Massage & Bodywork. A 2001 survey of ABMP members found that 44.6% of respondents said they used reflexology, 37.9% said they used "energy healing," and 30.4% said they used shiatsu [11].

The fish stinks from the head.

http://www.quackwatch.org/
 
Organic food is the only way to go!!!!!! MSG is bad....but one thing i dont cre if it has MSG or not is RAMON noodles:D .......GO ORGANIC!!!!!
 
My entire family eats organic. We just switched about three months ago. My mom and I go to Whole Foods every Sunday morning and man...that stuff tastes good. In fact today we're having a family barbeque and it's all organic. It should be a pleasant surprise for my dad's family, who usually enjoys eating things that have been flash frozen. :eek:

The physical differences are amazing as well. My skin tone and overall energy have improved dramatically. You should be very cautious because you can eat as much organic food as you like but you can still gain a lot of weight, especially because of the natural fats.
 
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