Do you buy organic?

[Signal-11]

Just to be clear; I was playing the devils advocate above

An example; organic lettuce grown in India. By buying 'organic' you're actually exporting potable water from a developing nation (shame on you). You're also using a % of their land which can support food for your food. You're contributing to a massive carbon footprint in flying the lettuce over etc. etc.

But you're giving poor people money in exchange for their labor. People who have money or a good standard of living are the ones who can afford to trade necessity for principles. Thus poverty is a greater social ill than blah blah blah.

Simple solutions in these cases are for simple minds. The reality, as you mentioned, is complicated.

 

[Ugg]

An example; organic lettuce grown in India. By buying 'organic' you're actually exporting potable water from a developing nation (shame on you). You're also using a % of their land which can support food for your food. You're contributing to a massive carbon footprint in flying the lettuce over etc. etc.

Lets not forget modern mass-farming techniques have saved millions of lives and most current organic setups aren't sustainable for the population at large.

By that reasoning, importing anything from the developing world would be taboo.

"The Green Revolution" only encouraged over population. Sure, it may have saved people from starvation but it didn't do the planet any favors. From the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico caused by Iowa corn growers over fertilizing their corn to all the disgusting swine CAFO's destroying local water sources. Nobody wins when our water is treated so carelessly.

 

[Signal-11]

By that reasoning, importing anything from the developing world would be taboo.

"The Green Revolution" only encouraged over population. Sure, it may have saved people from starvation but it didn't do the planet any favors. From the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico caused by Iowa corn growers over fertilizing their corn to all the disgusting swine CAFO's destroying local water sources. Nobody wins when our water is treated so carelessly.

That's one way to look at it.

The other way to look at it is that Borlaug and the ensuing revolution allowed for sufficient amounts of food to produced for a growing population, while at the same time reducing the area of land, amount of fertilizer required, labor, etc etc.

What the Green Revolution did was it MITIGATED unavoidable environmental damage. The alternative was mass famine on an unimaginable scale.

 

[Ugg]

The other way to look at it is that Borlaug and the ensuing revolution allowed for sufficient amounts of food to produced for a growing population, while at the same time reducing the area of land, amount of fertilizer required, labor, etc etc.

What the Green Revolution did was it MITIGATED unavoidable environmental damage. The alternative was mass famine on an unimaginable scale.

The first paragraph I'll agree with, not much to argue with really!

The second is problematic. I'm not sure what damage you believe it mitigated because it caused untold and in some cases, seemingly permanent damage to the environment. It also encouraged marginal land to be put into production, land that is easily damaged and slow to recover. Famine is a natural reaction to excessive reproduction...


This is the second year that I've had my own veggie plot. I'm lucky living where I do as I've had fresh tomatoes since the first of June and with a little luck, I have a couple of weeks before the first frost. For most of the summer, I didn't buy produce at all. With automatic irrigation and a neighbor (who shares the space) to watch over things while I was away, I don't think I spent more than two hours a week taking care of it.

It's easy, inexpensive and by growing varieties well suited to my area, I simply haven't had any pests to deal with. Other than the neighbor's rabbit which their kids didn't put away one night. ARRGGGGH!

I simply don't understand why people can eat non organic fruit and veggies. They're frequently tasteless, lacking in nutrients, bland and I don't trust the chemical and ag companies' press releases when it comes to the lack of toxicity of their products.


Just as I believe part of the future of energy production will be local, so do I believe that part of the food supply will be local. Not local traditional farms necessarily, but instead of the endless, boring and toxic lawns of suburbia, a string of mini gardens tended by suburban farmers with the excess being sold in local markets. Rust belt cities like Detroit, Cleveland and Pittsburgh are already seeing a growth in such farms and hopefully, it will become a thing of the future.

When it comes to commercial production, I believe that local tops organic, but I don't believe that pouring on more pesticides and more fertilizer is necessarily a good thing either. IPM is a much more intelligent process.

The most successful farmers that I know are those in their 70s who eschewed chemicals because of their cost. Frugality is part of the solution.

 

[Signal-11]

The first paragraph I'll agree with, not much to argue with really!

The second is problematic. I'm not sure what damage you believe it mitigated because it caused untold and in some cases, seemingly permanent damage to the environment. It also encouraged marginal land to be put into production, land that is easily damaged and slow to recover. Famine is a natural reaction to excessive reproduction...

The second point logically follows the first.

For a given population, you need to feed them. If you reduce the amount of land required and fertilizer required to produce the given requisite amount of food, environmental damage will be mitigated versus continuing more wasteful agriculture methods.

Are you and I speaking the same language when we say "Green Revolution"?

I'm not talking about Rachel Carson. I'm talking about Norman Borlaug.

 

[synth3tik]

I don't buy organic...


I figure, if I'm gonna get all health conscious and go organic, I should probably quit smoking first......

The looks I get walking out of an organic grocer with a cigarette in my hat are to die for. At least I am not malnourished like the lot of them, not that the smoking has anything to do with that.

 

[Limlin]

If you think organic is safe you can try. So you won't be reget that you never try organic when you are old. I've never bought organic but I think it might be healthy so I may try.

 

[AppleMatt]

This is the second year that I've had my own veggie plot. I'm lucky living where I do as I've had fresh tomatoes since the first of June and with a little luck, I have a couple of weeks before the first frost. For most of the summer, I didn't buy produce at all. With automatic irrigation and a neighbor (who shares the space) to watch over things while I was away, I don't think I spent more than two hours a week taking care of it.

I have one too, however, there's still a high cost to this; the water waste alone makes it unsustainable if everyone did it. Also things like the footprint from the lorries that delivered the (heavy) compost to get it started, the methane, the plastic containers for your feed, low volume compared to area used blah blah.

Again, perhaps hypocritically, I also do this because I enjoy the time spent and it tastes nice (tomatoes in particular taste much nicer than the shop ones). Luckily after the initial setup I've managed to get away without buying bags of compost as I make it from kitchen waste throughout the year and top up with tomato/potato feed. The soil will need a load turning in sooner or later though.

I had a couple friends who had that set up in their basement--of course it wasn't for tomatoes and peppers their profit margin was huge

I bet, I saw on TV one built into a shed. When they opened the door it was like looking into the sun - I can't understate the amount of heat and light.

I'm not into *that* use though, I just like the fact it uses next to no water, there's no bugs so no loss of food or chemicals, only a small bottle of nutrients lasts months and months. The only downside is that it's not always practical for large plants unless you have a basement/loft etc.

AppleMatt